RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Title: Message Lisa, There is a word that describes those who are not members of an organisation/collective that declines to financially contribute to collective funds or provide input or energies yet expect to benefit or be rewarded bythe wins such as pay risesnegotiated by a collective group such as by a union. I will not say the word in such polite company but others will know a festering sore heals ever so slowly when constantly rubbed. I get rubbed by this all the time! However I would suggest Lisa you seriously consider why membership to your professional college would benefit you and especially to the woman you claim to 'care' for. We cannot take a Robinson Crusoe view and think midwives are on their own island when we have so many financial, political, professional, ethical and various codes of practice we are all expected to be accountable to. At the present time the College does not have the resources or funds to be able to provide legal or financial officers. They leave the industrial framework many midwives work in to the various unions in each state, howeverunfortunately named, the ANF. However some states with active midwives are working on the name change to be more inclusive of midwives. I can assure youthe ANF and Jill Iliffe are taking notice of midwives. Collectively we are strong and we can do anything in a way that respects all views. Can I urge you to get involved. Cheers Barb -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa BarrettSent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:36 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Hang on personalising this debate is very important to me if I have to sign up. Maybe that's the problem not personal enough!! My SAIMA South Australian Independent Midwives Association. Should surely have received some information affiliated to the college or not. Having Insurance doesn't hinge on belonging to the College of Midwives. I was at the same day as Tania, Not a mention of any Insurance issues then. I don't think for one minute I have confusion. I want to feel to be important enough to be in the loop and wanted opinion from others around Australia of what they actually thought about this not just the party line. what I have to say is as important as everyone else just because I want to be cautious doesn't mean I should shut up surely. I know there are people working hard out there to benefit the midwifery community but please don't belittle my opinion or that of My SAIMA. Doesn't anyone else think that getting your woman to pay them and then they take what is required and give you the rest may be an issue. Can we all start charging 30dollars and will that cover our insurance tax, commission etc. What if they are not happy with something and won't pay up. They could start making policies and if we don't follow what they think is correct procedure they don't pay up. Has this been covered with the company? Thanks everyone Lisa - Original Message - From: B G To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 8:57 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Lisa, Personalising debate is not wholesome. Its like NIMBY debates! An email went out via ACM update that people can subscribe to about PI to express an interest to the CEO at that stage. This was then relayed onto ozmidwifery. I do not think it has progressed beyond an _expression_ of interest from midwives to the college. I rely on the elected members from my state branchof the College to act on everyones best interest. Some things especially business related do have some confidential discussions. One thing the College is particularly keen to do is to ensure safe practice and safe care hence progression of the Midwifery Practice Review nationally. Your SAIMA are they affiliated to the College or participate in the College activities because this is probably where your confusion is coming from hearing things as you said 3rd hand? The college update is very informative and keeps you in the loop. Barb
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Title: Message
Well Barb thanks for that. I can assure you
that the women I "claim to care for" are very well looked after and I resent the
inference made with that remark. I am in fact a member of my professional
body the RCM and a member of the ANF and a member of the ARM(Association of
Radical Midwives) I do not think or feel like I am an Island. I have been a
midwife for 20 years and am well aware of my accountability. Respecting all
views is surely that ALL views. All I am trying to get over is a full
debate of what we are going to get with the insurance that is on
offer. I not expect to benefit or be rewarded by any wins or pay
rises negotiated on my behalf. I don't want an insurance offer put on the
table on my behalf that I may not want but if agreed to I will be obliged to
take or marginalise myself further. I'm sure that you can understand that.
That's why a healthy discussion now is invaluable to us all. and mud slinging
not productive.
Lisa
- Original Message -
From:
B
G
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:36
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI
Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Lisa,
There is a word that describes those who are not members of an
organisation/collective that declines to financially contribute to collective
funds or provide input or energies yet expect to benefit or be rewarded
bythe wins such as pay risesnegotiated by a collective group such
as by a union. I will not say the word in such polite company but others will
know a festering sore heals ever so slowly when constantly rubbed. I get
rubbed by this all the time!
However I
would suggest Lisa you seriously consider why
membership to your professional college would
benefit you and especially to the woman you claim to 'care' for. We cannot
take a Robinson Crusoe view and think midwives are on their own island when we
have so many financial, political, professional, ethical and various codes of
practice we are all expected to be accountable to.
At
the present time the College does not have the resources or funds to be able
to provide legal or financial officers. They leave the industrial framework
many midwives work in to the various unions in each state,
howeverunfortunately named, the ANF. However some states with active
midwives are working on the name change to be more inclusive of midwives. I
can assure youthe ANF and Jill Iliffe are taking notice of
midwives.
Collectively we are strong and we can do anything
in a way that respects all views. Can I urge you to get
involved.
Cheers Barb
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa
BarrettSent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:36 PMTo:
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI
Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Hang on personalising this debate is very
important to me if I have to sign up. Maybe that's the problem not
personal enough!!
My SAIMA South Australian Independent Midwives
Association. Should surely have received some information affiliated to the
college or not. Having Insurance doesn't hinge on belonging to the
College of Midwives. I was at the same day as Tania, Not a mention of
any Insurance issues then.
I don't think for one minute I have
confusion. I want to feel to be important enough to be in the loop and
wanted opinion from others around Australia of what they actually thought
about this not just the party line. what I have to say is as important as
everyone else just because I want to be cautious doesn't mean I should shut
up surely.
I know there are people working hard out there
to benefit the midwifery community but please don't belittle my opinion or
that of My SAIMA.
Doesn't anyone else think that getting your
woman to pay them and then they take what is required and give you the rest
may be an issue. Can we all start charging 30dollars and will that
cover our insurance tax, commission etc. What if they are not happy with
something and won't pay up. They could start making policies and if we
don't follow what they think is correct procedure they don't pay up. Has
this been covered with the company?
Thanks everyone
Lisa
- Original Message -
From:
B
G
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006
8:57 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI
Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Lisa,
Personalising debate is not wholesome. Its like NIMBY
debates!
An email went out via ACM update that people can subscribe to about
PI to express a
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Hi there Jo, For the homebirth movement to move forward here we need to dispel the fear that women have surrounding birth, no amount of insurance can do that. I don't think that because they are the only company offering insurance at the moment that is the main consideration at all. Would you buy rotten fruit if it was all that was on offer ( not comparing rotten fruit with the offer at all you understand). At the uni of SA student's can attend homebirths in fact I had a birth this week with a student attending. How is it that they are able to and others eg in South Aus Flinders Uni can't. Maybe it has more to do with politics of birth than insurance. I am doing my best along with other independent's in this state to raise the profile of birth, insurance is not the only way to do this. I do get fed up when on the odd occasion I have been with a woman birthing at the hospital at the attitude of some (by no means all) but catching the baby isn't the be all and end all of my job. Getting the woman the birth she desires is way more important and if that means advocating from the side line I swallow my pride and get on with it. All that said I would love as much as everyone else to have insurance as a rod to help me. But it has to be right and open discussion is really important even before we blindly sign up to anything. Thanks for your input Lisa - Original Message - From: jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Hi all, Although not a midwife yet I attended the Sydney meeting with members of ASIM as an HBA rep. The offer to me sounded good in that you are only paying insurance for the actual births you attend. Its not just a 1 off fee. Therefore if you are a hosp mw whod like to do a few hbs a year you only pay insurance for those few you attend and if you are a full time city based hb midwife attended 30 births a year thats what you pay for. The other issue to consider is that this is the only company who are willing to offer insurance to mws, there has been a lot of work done on this issue over the past 5 years and no other insurance company has been willing to come to the party. In order for homebirth to move fwd both for mws and women in Aus we need to secure insurance then perhaps the student mws may get rights to accompany IPMs to hbs, hb mws may get rights in hosp to continue their care of the woman should a transfer become necessary, Publicly Funded hb may become a real option for women and it can only be a positive step in terms of raising the profile of IPMs. I suggest any mw who would like to raise the profile of the profession and help to make hb a real choice for Australian women register their interest and once the 200 are on a list discussions can begin on how it will all work. Warm regards Jo Hunter National Convenor HBA HAS Coordinator Innate Birth CBE and doula From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lisa BarrettSent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 8:25 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Hi Everyone, I'm interested to know everyone's thoughts on the PI. I work solely as an independent and I must be honest I don't think this offer is great. We shouldn't rush into anything just because we think PI gives us credibility. I haven't really seen any huge discussion on this anywhere. Has there been a gathering of Independent's that I missed to go into detail on this offer or even what we want and expect from our insurance? We don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot yet again in our eagerness to portray ourselves as professionals. Lisa Barrett - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed FYI... - Original Message - From: Robyn Thompson Please forward this on to as many midwives as possible. It would be great if more colleagues could contact Dr Barb Vernon, Executive Officer, ACMI as soon as possible to add your names to the list for PI Insurance. We need 200 before we can start the process, so far there are 90. Lets get the PI rolling for the greater good of our profession Warm regards, Robyn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Just wanted to weigh in on this discussion I agree Lisa, there is so much fear and distrust of birth, and the processes that make it safe, that I dont think insurance will make an ounce of difference per se, to the culture surrounding birth in this country. Thats not to say that it isnt a positive step, and that we all shouldnt be appreciative of the exhaustive efforts of those such as Barb Vernon, Joy Johnston and all the others who have worked hard to get this offer to the table. I also know that there are many IPMs out there who whilst agreeing that of course we should have fair and affordable access to insurance, for one reason or another would choose not to have it. Whether thats wise, or professional is another debate altogether, and I think that the reasons for wanting or not wanting to take up the offer of insurance would be equally as diverse as the opinions on any topic we have discussed on this list. I keep thinking back to the first midwifery conference I went to in New Zealand, and whilst Im aware that their system is not perfect by any means, it does have a few wonderful innovations such as no fault liabilitybut I digressand I remember Karen Guilliland speaking passionately about how the impetus for change in the system over there came from a core group of dedicated and passionate midwives, in conjunction with the women of New Zealand, who demanded something better. How do we get around the fact that we have a culture and generations of women here who believe that they are getting the best already, and that anything less than a private Ob in a private hospital is substandard, and more importantly, not as safe? We have so much work to do to raise the profile of midwifery care, and to make it something that all women demand, and feel that they are deserving of. Starting with the women who are of birthing age now is too late, I fear. They are already heavily indoctrinated to think of birth as intrinsically dangerous, and as something that requires specialist care, especially if you can afford it. I dont know how many of my well meaning friends looked forlornly at me when we talked about choosing a midwife and planning a homebirth, and asked sadly why we had let our private health insurance lapse. They actually felt sorry for me! I found it incredulous to think that not one of my friends, all educated women, some already mothers themselves, saw any value in having a known midwife attend them for their labour and birth, let alone for all the wonderful ante and post natal care. They just didnt get why that was important to me. So yes, I think we need to start with programmes in schools and preschools, normalizing birth, using the word midwife, birth, alongside the words joy, power, satisfaction and safety. We need to have the idea of having your own midwife, regardless of where you choose to birth, in every little persons mind, as the normal thing to do. How we do that, I dont know. But I do think its worth us being open to looking at an insurance offer, given that its the first one weve had any proximity to in 5 years now, keeping in mind that it wont be the answer to everything Sorry for the rant, but wanted to have some input while it was still in my fuzzy head (this cold just wont go away) Tania x From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett Sent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 3:30 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Hi there Jo, For the homebirth movement to move forward here we need to dispel the fear that women have surrounding birth, no amount of insurance can do that. I don't think that because they are the only company offering insurance at the moment that is the main consideration at all. Would you buy rotten fruit if it was all that was on offer ( not comparing rotten fruit with the offer at all you understand). At the uni of SA student's can attend homebirths in fact I had a birth this week with a student attending. How is it that they are able to and others eg in South Aus Flinders Uni can't. Maybe it has more to do with politics of birth than insurance. I am doing my best along with other independent's in this state to raise the profile of birth, insurance is not the only way to do this. I do get fed up when on the odd occasion I have been with a woman birthing at the hospital at the attitude of some (by no means all) but catching the baby isn't the be all and end all of my job. Getting the woman the birth she desires is way more important and if that means advocating from the side line I swallow my pride and get on with it. All that said I would love as much as everyone else to have insurance as a rod to help me. But it has to be right and open discussion is really important even before we blindly sign up to anything
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
My feeelings on it are divided as I dont necessarily want CA to be doing my invoicing of clients for a number of reasons one of which is confidentiality. but the deal itself sounds reasonable to me to pay on a per case basis. I would be happy with a per case fee as I feel this would be fair for everyone regardless of what they charge. I am used to working without it now and have got over the uneasiness of it but am happy not to own anything and therefore my risk is low. Not everyone has this luxury. The NBV are not invoking their right in insisting we have insurance I feel because none is available but I think this will change if it is in whatever form. What I understand is that they are going to charge a 5-6 % administration fee and 1-2% insurance fee and no matter which way you look at it this equates in my book to 7-8% of what I charge for insurance. What I dont get is how this works when everyone charges their own fees. This would mean that say Robyn Thompson will be paying more per client for her insurance than I will because she charges more and I don't see how they will police this. What if midwives provide their services for free how does this work or they could charge a nominal fee say$10 and only pay 80c insurance and still be covered. I wanted to go to the meeting today but for logistical reasons couldn't so am waiting to here from the midwives who do. From what I can gather they need 200 names for CA to start negotiations but I dont think you will get midwives who only work in hospital to be interested even though I think they should be and I dont think there are 200 ind practicing midwives in Australia. I'd love to be proved wrong.AndreaOn 05/09/2006, at 3:47 PM, Lisa Barrett wrote:Hi Andrea, I have already emailed Barb Vernon but have not received a reply at all. I homebirthed in Britain for 14 years before coming here and I must say that although independent's have no insurance at the moment there it doesn't prevent or hinder the homebirth movement fear does that way more successfully than lack of insurance.. The biggest horror is that it leaves these midwives as us vulnerable to complaints not so much from clients but other professionals. I was looking for a discussion on how it actually works . I have read what's available but wanted to know what others think in more detail. Here seems a great place to discuss it. Lisa- Original Message -From: Andrea QuanchiTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:47 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives neededLisaNothing is set in concrete yet but we need 200 names to be able to move forward. There is a meeting today in Melbourne and have been other meetings around the country. I suggest you ring Barb Vernon at ACMI and she can give you the relevant info for your stateAndreaOn 05/09/2006, at 8:24 AM, Lisa Barrett wrote:
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
I'm glad you mentioned this Andrea because it's just what I was thinking. SA Midwives don't command the prices that they charge in other states. Will the payments be uniform or income related and how does that transfer to the amount of cover provided. I also understand that they will pay the tax on your income. I'm certainly not going to let a company handle my money take a cut pay tax and then give me what's left. Professional indemnity should be available through our professional body to ALL midwives not just homebirthing midwives and should be part and parcel of being a member. That's what we should be working towards. Then there wouldn't be a struggle for a professional body it would be a necessity. That's also the way to get birth on the agenda and recognised around the country with a high profile midwifery group bursting at the seams with the country's midwives. Maybe the Royal college could accept the insurance on behalf of it's members and then negotiate it into something we can actually use. Lisa. - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed My feeelings on it are divided as I dont necessarily want CA to be doing my invoicing of clients for a number of reasons one of which is confidentiality. but the deal itself sounds reasonable to me to pay on a per case basis. I would be happy with a per case fee as I feel this would be fair for everyone regardless of what they charge. I am used to working without it now and have got over the uneasiness of it but am happy not to own anything and therefore my risk is low. Not everyone has this luxury. The NBV are not invoking their right in insisting we have insurance I feel because none is available but I think this will change if it is in whatever form. What I understand is that they are going to charge a 5-6 % administration fee and 1-2% insurance fee and no matter which way you look at it this equates in my book to 7-8% of what I charge for insurance. What I dont get is how this works when everyone charges their own fees. This would mean that say Robyn Thompson will be paying more per client for her insurance than I will because she charges more and I don't see how they will police this. What if midwives provide their services for free how does this work or they could charge a nominal fee say$10 and only pay 80c insurance and still be covered. I wanted to go to the meeting today but for logistical reasons couldn't so am waiting to here from the midwives who do. From what I can gather they need 200 names for CA to start negotiations but I dont think you will get midwives who only work in hospital to be interested even though I think they should be and I dont think there are 200 ind practicing midwives in Australia. I'd love to be proved wrong. Andrea On 05/09/2006, at 3:47 PM, Lisa Barrett wrote: Hi Andrea, I have already emailed Barb Vernon but have not received a reply at all. I homebirthed in Britain for 14 years before coming here and I must say that although independent's have no insurance at the moment there it doesn't prevent or hinder the homebirth movement fear does that way more successfully than lack of insurance.. The biggest horror is that it leaves these midwives as us vulnerable to complaints not so much from clients but other professionals. I was looking for a discussion on how it actually works . I have read what's available but wanted to know what others think in more detail. Here seems a great place to discuss it. Lisa - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Lisa Nothing is set in concrete yet but we need 200 names to be able to move forward. There is a meeting today in Melbourne and have been other meetings around the country. I suggest you ring Barb Vernon at ACMI and she can give you the relevant info for your state Andrea On 05/09/2006, at 8:24 AM, Lisa Barrett wrote:
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Dear Lisa and All I agree Lisa we need to dispel fear around HB but to do that it needs to be accessible. Your experience of BMid students attending HB is a 1 off. I dont believe any other BMid course enable students to work with IPMs doing HB. They also have trouble finding continuity models (and yes WC in Adelaide is again different!). But what I want to respond to is the idea that insurance is just for midwives. What about women? I have had 6 children at home and I have NO FEAR!!! 2 with insurance and 4 without. I understand the legal issues and I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and would be very unlikely to sue, but this is not the point. I do however believe that HB women must have the same rights as those accessing GPs and Obs. Insurance is seen as a consumer safety mechanism just as it is seen as a professional protection for midwives. This policy to me is very worthwhile as it allows for coverage on a per birth basis. It will enable many more midwives wanting to dip their toe in to private practice that chance. It has the capacity to transform maternity services. We can use the flexibility of this policy (and the business arrangements they offer) to recruit midwives who are currently reluctant to step outside of the system. Private midwifery could actually be a mainstream option with women choosing where they give birth. With PI ,midwives could be granted admitting rights and could therefore offer the marketplace a service in the home or hospital. I have spent 6.5 years advocating for women and midwives and 5 fighting for PI insurance. I can safely say that politically midwives will get nowhere without PI. With 200 midwives we can sell 1-2-1 midwifery further than HB (although HB is my passion!!). Yesterday Manchester Unity refused to pay for a homebirth (even though they offer midwifery rebates) citing a lack of PI as the reason. HBA are also reconsidering and MBF has ceased paying out for HBs for the same reason. I have never had private health insurance and never will, but this is not about the few, again this is about reaching many more women. Private Health is well supported by the Fed Gov and it is a way to reach many more women. Fear can not be easily dispelled by something that is so poorly supported (ie by public or private funding). With an influx of private midwifery there is a much better chance that Medicare will flow on to midwives in their own right (rather than the current idea re Medicare item number 16400 that requires Drs overseeing midwives). Lisa you cannot liken the UK to here. Although I think team midwifery for homebirth is the pits, women in the UK have a legislative right to a public funded homebirth, even saying that in Australia would be considered reasonably outrageous. Unlike the UK, Independent midwifery is the only option for the vast majority of Aust women wanting a HB. Barb Vernon is one very busy person who is pushed and pulled in many directions but like us she is working hard to achieve this. She is recording every e-mail etc received in the hope we get to 200 soon. I hope you appreciate the benefits of this policy in both per birth coverage and business structure; and whilst I acknowledge some IPMs with established practices may have preferred that this was not a requirement I hope that they too can think with a world view as we consumers are. In solidarity Justine Caines Homebirth Australia Maternity Coalition For the homebirth movement to move forward here we need to dispel the fear that women have surrounding birth, no amount of insurance can do that. I don't think that because they are the only company offering insurance at the moment that is the main consideration at all. Would you buy rotten fruit if it was all that was on offer ( not comparing rotten fruit with the offer at all you understand). At the uni of SA student's can attend homebirths in fact I had a birth this week with a student attending. How is it that they are able to and others eg in South Aus Flinders Uni can't. Maybe it has more to do with politics of birth than insurance. I am doing my best along with other independent's in this state to raise the profile of birth, insurance is not the only way to do this. I do get fed up when on the odd occasion I have been with a woman birthing at the hospital at the attitude of some (by no means all) but catching the baby isn't the be all and end all of my job. Getting the woman the birth she desires is way more important and if that means advocating from the side line I swallow my pride and get on with it. All that said I would love as much as everyone else to have insurance as a rod to help me. But it has to be right and open discussion is really important even before we blindly sign up to anything. Thanks for your input Lisa
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Andrea saidI dont think you will get midwives who only work in hospital to be interested even though I think they should be I think this is a key quote that also deserves some discussionwhilst on one hand we are all fighting for recognition as a profession separate to nursing, and we want to be seen as a united front to further the campaign for improving maternity services throughout Australia, on the other hand we are pursuing an insurance offer that yet again divides us as a profession. Nicky Leap saida midwife is a midwife is a midwife??? I feel like this quest for insurance that is specific to IPMs could be seen by midwives, the AMA, politicians, and most importantly women, as a divisive move, and I dont think ultimately it can benefit us in our quest to improve the public persona of the midwife. I really want to have access to insurance, not be forced into having it. I want to be able to purchase insurance that will cover me for any activities I take in the name of midwifery, in or out of the hospital setting, where I am being paid a wage, or where I am donating my time. In my wildest dreams Id like to think that every midwife working anywhere as a midwife would consider it a string to his or her professional bow to be insured as well as registered. Thats something that they have done in NZ, attach the insurance to the membership of the professional body, the NZCOM, and membership of the body is a necessary step to obtaining registration as a midwife. That way, all midwives are members of the professional body, and all midwives are insured. I know thats a simplistic way of looking at it, but it really worries me that we are getting caught up in something that perpetuates an us and them attitude that has already gone on for too long Tania -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: 4/09/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: 4/09/2006
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Title: Message Justine you have so eloquently state the bleeding obvious. I am one hospital midwife who hopes and prays this insurance comes available. I plan to provide home care for birthing women but ethically and morally I will not do so until I know PI is there. To be truly recognised as a profession one must provide PI for clients. Even hubby has PI when he is Landscaping in case he takes out the SE telecommunications cable with one bobcat- don't laugh this did happen about 6 months ago to another operator. He is now financially ruined as businesses sued for loss of services! Barb -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine CainesSent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 7:19 PMTo: OzMid ListSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Dear Lisa and AllI agree Lisa we need to dispel fear around HB but to do that it needs to be accessible.Your experience of BMid students attending HB is a 1 off. I dont believe any other BMid course enable students to work with IPMs doing HB.They also have trouble finding continuity models (and yes WC in Adelaide is again different!).But what I want to respond to is the idea that insurance is just for midwives. What about women? I have had 6 children at home and I have NO FEAR!!! 2 with insurance and 4 without. I understand the legal issues and I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and would be very unlikely to sue, but this is not the point. I do however believe that HB women must have the same rights as those accessing GPs and Obs. Insurance is seen as a consumer safety mechanism just as it is seen as a professional protection for midwives.This policy to me is very worthwhile as it allows for coverage on a per birth basis. It will enable many more midwives wanting to dip their toe in to private practice that chance. It has the capacity to transform maternity services. We can use the flexibility of this policy (and the business arrangements they offer) to recruit midwives who are currently reluctant to step outside of the system. Private midwifery could actually be a mainstream option with women choosing where they give birth. With PI ,midwives could be granted admitting rights and could therefore offer the marketplace a service in the home or hospital.I have spent 6.5 years advocating for women and midwives and 5 fighting for PI insurance. I can safely say that politically midwives will get nowhere without PI.With 200 midwives we can sell 1-2-1 midwifery further than HB (although HB is my passion!!).Yesterday Manchester Unity refused to pay for a homebirth (even though they offer midwifery rebates) citing a lack of PI as the reason.HBA are also reconsidering and MBF has ceased paying out for HBs for the same reason.I have never had private health insurance and never will, but this is not about the few, again this is about reaching many more women. Private Health is well supported by the Fed Gov and it is a way to reach many more women. Fear can not be easily dispelled by something that is so poorly supported (ie by public or private funding).With an influx of private midwifery there is a much better chance that Medicare will flow on to midwives in their own right (rather than the current idea re Medicare item number 16400 that requires Drs overseeing midwives).Lisa you cannot liken the UK to here. Although I think team midwifery for homebirth is the pits, women in the UK have a legislative right to a public funded homebirth, even saying that in Australia would be considered reasonably outrageous. Unlike the UK, Independent midwifery is the only option for the vast majority of Aust women wanting a HB.Barb Vernon is one very busy person who is pushed and pulled in many directions but like us she is working hard to achieve this. She is recording every e-mail etc received in the hope we get to 200 soon.I hope you appreciate the benefits of this policy in both per birth coverage and business structure; and whilst I acknowledge some IPMs with established practices may have preferred that this was not a requirement I hope that they too can think with a world view as we consumers are.In solidarityJustine Caines Homebirth AustraliaMaternity CoalitionFor the homebirth movement to move forward here we need to dispel the fear that women have surrounding birth, no amount of insurance can do that.I don't think that because they are the only company offering insurance at the moment that is the main consideration at all. Would you buy rotten fruit if it was all that was on offer ( not comparing rotten fruit with the offer at all you understand).At the uni of SA student's can attend homebirths
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
I agree and disagree, Tania.I believe there IS an us and them. I am a hospital based Midwife... I see 'them' homebirth based Midwives and look up to and admire them for their experience and expertise in home birth. I look at the hospital based Midwives I work with and also admire their experience and expertise, but most know nothing about homebirth, and wouldn't ever practice in that way. As a hospital based Midwife, I am insured by the hospital, and by the ANF. Those homebirth Midwives don't have an 'overseer' and don't need one, so they, too, need insurance. They are practitioners in their own right, and refer on to Doctors if needs be. In the hospital we are all a multidisciplinary team working to look after all of the women.That's why I see there is an us and them. Them need insurance, us already have it. :)JoOn 05/09/2006, at 5:27 PM, Tania Smallwood wrote:Andrea said…“I dont think you will get midwives who only work in hospital to be interested even though I think they should be” I think this is a key quote that also deserves some discussion…whilst on one hand we are all fighting for recognition as a profession separate to nursing, and we want to be seen as a united front to further the campaign for improving maternity services throughout Australia, on the other hand we are pursuing an insurance offer that yet again divides us as a profession. Nicky Leap said…a midwife is a midwife is a midwife…??? I feel like this quest for insurance that is specific to IPM’s could be seen by midwives, the AMA, politicians, and most importantly women, as a divisive move, and I don’t think ultimately it can benefit us in our quest to improve the public persona of the midwife. I really want to have access to insurance, not be forced into having it. I want to be able to purchase insurance that will cover me for any activities I take in the name of midwifery, in or out of the hospital setting, where I am being paid a wage, or where I am donating my time. In my wildest dreams I’d like to think that every midwife working anywhere as a midwife would consider it a string to his or her professional bow to be insured as well as registered. That’s something that they have done in NZ, attach the insurance to the membership of the professional body, the NZCOM, and membership of the body is a necessary step to obtaining registration as a midwife. That way, all midwives are members of the professional body, and all midwives are insured. I know that’s a simplistic way of looking at it, but it really worries me that we are getting caught up in something that perpetuates an us and them attitude that has already gone on for too long… Tania --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: 4/09/2006--No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: 4/09/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
I'm certainly not trying to shoot any offer of insurance down. I wanted discussion and opinion because I feel out of the loop. I am a member of the SAIMA but we have received nothing not even a note to say anything is on the table , it's all hear say and 3rd hand. As I said before I only practice independently and as It is my whole life, I don't do a bit on the side so to speak I wonder why nobody has bothered to inform the SAIMA what's happening, if there's a meeting we can attend etc etc. This is not a closed shop for whoever to negotiate my life without even my knowledge. If insurance is taken up I will be expected to get it. All You lovely women who are at the moment not homebirthing because there is no insurance your fine. I Homebirth every day of my life, I have recently done twins at home and have a very busy practice. you can all get on your high horse about this but it directly affects ME not you so I want to know what is going on before I sign on the dotted line. Justine, I appreciate that the women have the right to request cover, I don't not want insurance I just don't want any old thing and I feel uncomfortable about the way it would work. This open discussion is great. It's the best way to get the best deal.. I know that people have worked tirelessly on this but I work tirelessly birthing women at home so surely my opinion counts for something. Lisa - Original Message - From: Shaughn Leach To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:13 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed I am a recently qualified midwife (July) and I have put my name down with ACMI as I understood this to be only an _expression_ of interest at this stage. I dont intend to work as an independent midwife however it seemed to me that there were other midwives who would appreciate being able to access this type of insurance. For a few years I did not hold professional indemnity insurance in my private practice as a Lactation Consultant and I personally found the situation very stressful (fearful!!). Eventually I found insurance with a company that provides PI insurance for complementary practitioners (AON Brokers) at a reasonable cost. As I continue to pay for this insurance despite working mostly in a hospital setting at present, I can appreciate the benefits of paying per case! Shaughn Leach
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Title: Message Lisa, Personalising debate is not wholesome. Its like NIMBY debates! An email went out via ACM update that people can subscribe to about PI to express an interest to the CEO at that stage. This was then relayed onto ozmidwifery. I do not think it has progressed beyond an _expression_ of interest from midwives to the college. I rely on the elected members from my state branchof the College to act on everyones best interest. Some things especially business related do have some confidential discussions. One thing the College is particularly keen to do is to ensure safe practice and safe care hence progression of the Midwifery Practice Review nationally. Your SAIMA are they affiliated to the College or participate in the College activities because this is probably where your confusion is coming from hearing things as you said 3rd hand? The college update is very informative and keeps you in the loop. Barb -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa BarrettSent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 8:53 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed I'm certainly not trying to shoot any offer of insurance down. I wanted discussion and opinion because I feel out of the loop. I am a member of the SAIMA but we have received nothing not even a note to say anything is on the table , it's all hear say and 3rd hand. As I said before I only practice independently and as It is my whole life, I don't do a bit on the side so to speak I wonder why nobody has bothered to inform the SAIMA what's happening, if there's a meeting we can attend etc etc. This is not a closed shop for whoever to negotiate my life without even my knowledge. If insurance is taken up I will be expected to get it. All You lovely women who are at the moment not homebirthing because there is no insurance your fine. I Homebirth every day of my life, I have recently done twins at home and have a very busy practice. you can all get on your high horse about this but it directly affects ME not you so I want to know what is going on before I sign on the dotted line. Justine, I appreciate that the women have the right to request cover, I don't not want insurance I just don't want any old thing and I feel uncomfortable about the way it would work. This open discussion is great. It's the best way to get the best deal.. I know that people have worked tirelessly on this but I work tirelessly birthing women at home so surely my opinion counts for something. Lisa - Original Message - From: Shaughn Leach To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:13 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed I am a recently qualified midwife (July) and I have put my name down with ACMI as I understood this to be only an _expression_ of interest at this stage. I dont intend to work as an independent midwife however it seemed to me that there were other midwives who would appreciate being able to access this type of insurance. For a few years I did not hold professional indemnity insurance in my private practice as a Lactation Consultant and I personally found the situation very stressful (fearful!!). Eventually I found insurance with a company that provides PI insurance for complementary practitioners (AON Brokers) at a reasonable cost. As I continue to pay for this insurance despite working mostly in a hospital setting at present, I can appreciate the benefits of paying per case! Shaughn Leach
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
My advice from one lawyer is not to have to sets of insurers as if you get sued then you have two insurance companies fighting about who is responsible which makes the whole issue much bigger than if only one, those midwives who are employed are covered by their employer. Hospital employed midwives may need insurance to help protect their professional reputation but it could be detrimental to them to have this insurance as well for their work done for their employers. Christine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Tania Smallwood Sent: 05 September 2006 18:57 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Andrea said…“I dont think you will get midwives who only work in hospital to be interested even though I think they should be” I think this is a key quote that also deserves some discussion…whilst on one hand we are all fighting for recognition as a profession separate to nursing, and we want to be seen as a united front to further the campaign for improving maternity services throughout Australia, on the other hand we are pursuing an insurance offer that yet again divides us as a profession. Nicky Leap said…a midwife is a midwife is a midwife…??? I feel like this quest for insurance that is specific to IPM’s could be seen by midwives, the AMA, politicians, and most importantly women, as a divisive move, and I don’t think ultimately it can benefit us in our quest to improve the public persona of the midwife. I really want to have access to insurance, not be forced into having it. I want to be able to purchase insurance that will cover me for any activities I take in the name of midwifery, in or out of the hospital setting, where I am being paid a wage, or where I am donating my time. In my wildest dreams I’d like to think that every midwife working anywhere as a midwife would consider it a string to his or her professional bow to be insured as well as registered. That’s something that they have done in NZ, attach the insurance to the membership of the professional body, the NZCOM, and membership of the body is a necessary step to obtaining registration as a midwife. That way, all midwives are members of the professional body, and all midwives are insured. I know that’s a simplistic way of looking at it, but it really worries me that we are getting caught up in something that perpetuates an us and them attitude that has already gone on for too long… Tania -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: 4/09/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: 4/09/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
I believe that Anne O'Connor from Contracting Advantage will be visiting most states to discuss the offer and answer any questions midwives may have. You can contact her at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to find out when she is coming to your state. If shehas not planned to, I'm sure she would if there are enough interested midwives willing to attend. Andrea Bilcliff - Original Message - From: Lisa Barrett ...I'm certainly not trying to shoot any offer of insurance down. I wanted discussion and opinion because I feel out of the loop. I am a member of the SAIMA but we have received nothing not even a note to say anything is on the table , it's all hear say and 3rd hand...
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Actually I had a Direct Entry Mid Student from Monash Uni in Frankston last year attend homebirths with me. Her last birth required for her required number of 'attended births' was a home birth. With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Dear Lisa and AllI agree Lisa we need to dispel fear around HB but to do that it needs to be accessible.Your experience of BMid students attending HB is a 1 off. I dont believe any other BMid course enable students to work with IPMs doing HB.They also have trouble finding continuity models (and yes WC in Adelaide is again different!).But what I want to respond to is the idea that insurance is just for midwives. What about women? I have had 6 children at home and I have NO FEAR!!! 2 with insurance and 4 without. I understand the legal issues and I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and would be very unlikely to sue, but this is not the point. I do however believe that HB women must have the same rights as those accessing GPs and Obs. Insurance is seen as a consumer safety mechanism just as it is seen as a professional protection for midwives.This policy to me is very worthwhile as it allows for coverage on a per birth basis. It will enable many more midwives wanting to dip their toe in to private practice that chance. It has the capacity to transform maternity services. We can use the flexibility of this policy (and the business arrangements they offer) to recruit midwives who are currently reluctant to step outside of the system. Private midwifery could actually be a mainstream option with women choosing where they give birth. With PI ,midwives could be granted admitting rights and could therefore offer the marketplace a service in the home or hospital.I have spent 6.5 years advocating for women and midwives and 5 fighting for PI insurance. I can safely say that politically midwives will get nowhere without PI.With 200 midwives we can sell 1-2-1 midwifery further than HB (although HB is my passion!!).Yesterday Manchester Unity refused to pay for a homebirth (even though they offer midwifery rebates) citing a lack of PI as the reason.HBA are also reconsidering and MBF has ceased paying out for HBs for the same reason.I have never had private health insurance and never will, but this is not about the few, again this is about reaching many more women. Private Health is well supported by the Fed Gov and it is a way to reach many more women. Fear can not be easily dispelled by something that is so poorly supported (ie by public or private funding).With an influx of private midwifery there is a much better chance that Medicare will flow on to midwives in their own right (rather than the current idea re Medicare item number 16400 that requires Drs overseeing midwives).Lisa you cannot liken the UK to here. Although I think team midwifery for homebirth is the pits, women in the UK have a legislative right to a public funded homebirth, even saying that in Australia would be considered reasonably outrageous. Unlike the UK, Independent midwifery is the only option for the vast majority of Aust women wanting a HB.Barb Vernon is one very busy person who is pushed and pulled in many directions but like us she is working hard to achieve this. She is recording every e-mail etc received in the hope we get to 200 soon.I hope you appreciate the benefits of this policy in both per birth coverage and business structure; and whilst I acknowledge some IPMs with established practices may have preferred that this was not a requirement I hope that they too can think with a world view as we consumers are.In solidarityJustine Caines Homebirth AustraliaMaternity CoalitionFor the homebirth movement to move forward here we need to dispel the fear that women have surrounding birth, no amount of insurance can do that.I don't think that because they are the only company offering insurance at the moment that is the main consideration at all. Would you buy rotten fruit if it was all that was on offer ( not comparing rotten fruit with the offer at all you understand).At the uni of SA student's can attend homebirths in fact I had a birth this week with a student attending. How is it that they are able to and others eg in South Aus Flinders Uni can't. Maybe it has more to do with politics of birth than insurance.I am doing my best along with other independent's in this state to raise the profile
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Title: Message My understanding of the offer is quite basic and somewill know much more than me and are better able to articulate it, but I'll give it a shot... Anne O'Connor was very helpful and willing to answer all our questions at the meeting yesterday. What she couldn't, she was going to take back with her to find out for us. I'm sure if you contacted her she would be willing to answerany questions. CA provide this service for all kinds of self-employed workers.The management fee covers as much or as little book-keeping as we desire. If we want them to take out super payments, child support payments, whatever, they will. If we don't, they wont. If we want them to do BAS statements etc, this isalso included in the fee. If we want to continue doing our own book-keeping, this is fine also. Salary packaging was alsomentioned for the hospital employed midwives - they will do this too. They are aware that different midwives will charge different amounts for their services (as do other self-employed professionals). Some are paid in cash, some up-front, some in instalments, some after the birth. They have no interest in dictating what our charges or practice should be. Theirconcern is that we are registered as midwives. They are aware of the ACMI guidelines being just that...guidelines. The non-negotiable aspects, as I understand it, are: -the depositing of funds into their account when an invoice is paid (we get the final payment into our account the following day) -the management fee of 5% -the PII Public Liability fee of approx. 1% -the 20% flat tax rate (this isa minimum Govt requirement - you may pay more if you wish, orclaim it back at the end of year if too much is paid) It is extremelyhard to keep everyone informed as not all midwives are members of the various email discussion groups, ACMI, ASIMor even theirlocal groups such as MIPP SAIMA. I know there are independently practising midwives herein Vic who are not MIPP members. They have that choice but how do we get the message out to them? For now, it wouldbe of benefit if all midwives interested in keeping up-to-date withthe insurance offers joined the midwives insurance list http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Midwives_Insurance/ Hope this helps : ) Andrea Bilcliff
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Title: Message Thanks for that Andrea, just on that point, I think we all need to be mindful that there are probably many midwives who are not online AT ALL. I know of a few here in SA, who rely on other means of keeping updated with things, and one of them had no idea about any of this until I mentioned it to her. Im not sure what the answer is, the only body we are all a member of or have contact with in common is the Nurses Board (what an irony that is). I suppose when the offer is on the table all midwives may have to be contacted via the Nurses Board, and given the opportunity to vote as was the case a few years ago Tania From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Andrea Bilcliff Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 1:48 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed My understanding of the offer is quite basic and somewill know much more than me and are better able to articulate it, but I'll give it a shot... Anne O'Connor was very helpful and willing to answer all our questions at the meeting yesterday. What she couldn't, she was going to take back with her to find out for us. I'm sure if you contacted her she would be willing to answerany questions. CA provide this service for all kinds of self-employed workers.The management fee covers as much or as little book-keeping as we desire. If we want them to take out super payments, child support payments, whatever, they will. If we don't, they wont. If we want them to do BAS statements etc, this isalso included in the fee. If we want to continue doing our own book-keeping, this is fine also. Salary packaging was alsomentioned for the hospital employed midwives - they will do this too. They are aware that different midwives will charge different amounts for their services (as do other self-employed professionals). Some are paid in cash, some up-front, some in instalments, some after the birth. They have no interest in dictating what our charges or practice should be. Theirconcern is that we are registered as midwives. They are aware of the ACMI guidelines being just that...guidelines. The non-negotiable aspects, as I understand it, are: -the depositing of funds into their account when an invoice is paid (we get the final payment into our account the following day) -the management fee of 5% -the PII Public Liability fee of approx. 1% -the 20% flat tax rate (this isa minimum Govt requirement - you may pay more if you wish, orclaim it back at the end of year if too much is paid) It is extremelyhard to keep everyone informed as not all midwives are members of the various email discussion groups, ACMI, ASIMor even theirlocal groups such as MIPP SAIMA. I know there are independently practising midwives herein Vic who are not MIPP members. They have that choice but how do we get the message out to them? For now, it wouldbe of benefit if all midwives interested in keeping up-to-date withthe insurance offers joined the midwives insurance list http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Midwives_Insurance/ Hope this helps : ) Andrea Bilcliff -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 - Release Date: 5/09/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 - Release Date: 5/09/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Title: Message Absolutely! That's why I'd love to see all midwives having to be members of ACMI. - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 2:31 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Thanks for that Andrea, just on that point, I think we all need to be mindful that there are probably many midwives who are not online AT ALL. I know of a few here in SA, who rely on other means of keeping updated with things, and one of them had no idea about any of this until I mentioned it to her. I’m not sure what the answer is, the only body we are all a member of or have contact with in common is the Nurses Board (what an irony that is). I suppose when the offer is on the table all midwives may have to be contacted via the Nurses Board, and given the opportunity to vote as was the case a few years ago… Tania
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Hi Andrea, Sorry If I gave the impression that I was upset that I wasn't personally contacted (smile)that's not really the case although I do feel that it is very personal to all who practice independently.I was a little defensive as it seems nobody wants debate they think we should all just say yes. The Independent midwives in SA all belong to the SA independent midwives group and we meet regularly. I'm sure we are affiliated to the College although I can't be 100% on that I will find out. Hey Tania are we affiliated to the college?however it is the Independent midwives group and it makes sense that it's a good way to get the word around by contacting them. It's not that I'm not open minded because I really want to have insurance not for my practice but to be able to provide across the board care for the women I birth with and to be recognised inside the system. If however I was that concerned about not being covered I couldn't do what I do at the moment none of us could. That's why I think if it's not right we shouldn't do it. Sorry to the great women who are fighting our corner I really do know the work they have undertaken. I couldn't find the information on the college website I certainly did try and I mailed them. Thanks to the other Andreafor the information you gave it is what I already thought but talking frankly about it feels like the right thing to do before it goes any further. Not wanting to Compare with another country but the RCM in Britain is very well subscribed because it offers so much, legal advice professional indemnity (although not to independents directly) good information and a strong voice. It's a difficult one because without the members how can you get that but until you have it you won't encourage the members. Lisa - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed But Lisa how can the college communicate with people who have no affiliation with the college. They and others are trying valiantly to get the message around and this is why it ended up on this list. It is and should be personal to you that the insurance is for you but taking it as a personal affront that you didn't receive a personal memo about this fledgling discussion is unreasonable. None of us did. We saw it on the same forums that you have the opportunity to participate in and have followed up on the invitations to participate. No one is belittling anyones opinion but I got the impression from your emails that you were upset that you hadn't been given more information on what CA was offering and you have the same information the rest of us have at this stage. You are welcome to contact Anne O Connor from CA for more details. It will be a new way of doing things for all of us but that is what they are offering in return for backing the insurance which no other company since 2003 has been prepared to do so of course they are going to want something in return. Keep an open mind and don't get mad at the very people who are fighting hard for this on all of our behalves. Andrea Quanchi On 06/09/2006, at 12:35 PM, Lisa Barrett wrote: Hang on personalising this debate is very important to me if I have to sign up. Maybe that's the problem not personal enough!! My SAIMA South Australian Independent Midwives Association. Should surely have received some information affiliated to the college or not. Having Insurance doesn't hinge on belonging to the College of Midwives. I was at the same day as Tania, Not a mention of any Insurance issues then. I don't think for one minute I have confusion. I want to feel to be important enough to be in the loop and wanted opinion from others around Australia of what they actually thought about this not just the party line. what I have to say is as important as everyone else just because I want to be cautious doesn't mean I should shut up surely. I know there are people working hard out there to benefit the midwifery community but please don't belittle my opinion or that of My SAIMA. Doesn't anyone else think that getting your woman to pay them and then they take what is required and give you the rest may be an issue. Can we all start charging 30dollars and will that cover our insurance tax, commission etc. What if they are not happy with something and won't pay up. They could start making policies and if we don't follow what they think is correct procedure they don't pay up. Has this been covered with the company? Thanks everyone Lisa - Original Message - From: B G To: ozmidwifery
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Hi Everyone, I'm interested to know everyone's thoughts on the PI. I work solely as an independent and I must be honest I don't think this offer is great. We shouldn't rush into anything just because we think PI gives us credibility. I haven't really seen any huge discussion on this anywhere. Has there been a gathering of Independent's that I missed to go into detail on this offer or even what we want and expect from our insurance? We don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot yet again in our eagerness to portray ourselves as professionals. Lisa Barrett - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed FYI... - Original Message - From: Robyn Thompson Please forward this on to as many midwives as possible. It would be great if more colleagues could contact Dr Barb Vernon, Executive Officer, ACMI as soon as possible to add your names to the list for PI Insurance. We need 200 before we can start the process, so far there are 90. Lets get the PI rolling for the greater good of our profession Warm regards, Robyn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
LisaNothing is set in concrete yet but we need 200 names to be able to move forward. There is a meeting today in Melbourne and have been other meetings around the country. I suggest you ring Barb Vernon at ACMI and she can give you the relevant info for your stateAndreaOn 05/09/2006, at 8:24 AM, Lisa Barrett wrote:Hi Everyone, I'm interested to know everyone's thoughts on the PI. I work solely as an independent and I must be honest I don't think this offer is great. We shouldn't rush into anything just because we think PI gives us credibility. I haven't really seen any huge discussion on this anywhere. Has there been a gathering of Independent's that I missed to go into detail on this offer or even what we want and expect from our insurance? We don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot yet again in our eagerness to portray ourselves as professionals. Lisa Barrett- Original Message - From: Andrea BilcliffTo: OzmidwiferySent: Monday, September 04, 2006 6:48 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives neededFYI... - Original Message -From: Robyn ThompsonPlease forward this on to as many midwives as possible. It would be great if more colleagues could contact Dr Barb Vernon, Executive Officer, ACMI as soon as possible to add your names to the list for PI Insurance. We need 200 before we can start the process, so far there are 90. Let’s get the PI rolling for the greater good of our profession Warm regards, Robyn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Hi all, Although not a midwife yet I attended the Sydney meeting with members of ASIM as an HBA rep. The offer to me sounded good in that you are only paying insurance for the actual births you attend. Its not just a 1 off fee. Therefore if you are a hosp mw whod like to do a few hbs a year you only pay insurance for those few you attend and if you are a full time city based hb midwife attended 30 births a year thats what you pay for. The other issue to consider is that this is the only company who are willing to offer insurance to mws, there has been a lot of work done on this issue over the past 5 years and no other insurance company has been willing to come to the party. In order for homebirth to move fwd both for mws and women in Aus we need to secure insurance then perhaps the student mws may get rights to accompany IPMs to hbs, hb mws may get rights in hosp to continue their care of the woman should a transfer become necessary, Publicly Funded hb may become a real option for women and it can only be a positive step in terms of raising the profile of IPMs. I suggest any mw who would like to raise the profile of the profession and help to make hb a real choice for Australian women register their interest and once the 200 are on a list discussions can begin on how it will all work. Warm regards Jo Hunter National Convenor HBA HAS Coordinator Innate Birth CBE and doula From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett Sent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 8:25 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Hi Everyone, I'm interested to know everyone's thoughts on the PI. I work solely as an independent and I must be honest I don't think this offer is great. We shouldn't rush into anything just because we think PI gives us credibility. I haven't really seen any huge discussion on this anywhere. Has there been a gathering of Independent's that I missed to go into detail on this offer or even what we want and expect from our insurance? We don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot yet again in our eagerness to portray ourselves as professionals. Lisa Barrett - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed FYI... - Original Message - From: Robyn Thompson Please forward this on to as many midwives as possible. It would be great if more colleagues could contact Dr Barb Vernon, Executive Officer, ACMI as soon as possible to add your names to the list for PI Insurance. We need 200 before we can start the process, so far there are 90. Lets get the PI rolling for the greater good of our profession Warm regards, Robyn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
Hi Andrea, I have already emailed Barb Vernon but have not received a reply at all. I homebirthed in Britain for 14 years before coming here and I must say that although independent's have no insurance at the moment there it doesn't prevent or hinder the homebirth movement fear does that way more successfully than lack of insurance.. The biggest horror is that it leaves these midwives as us vulnerable to complaints not so much from clients but other professionals. I was looking for a discussion on how it actually works . I have read what's available but wanted to know what others think in more detail. Here seems a great place to discuss it. Lisa - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed Lisa Nothing is set in concrete yet but we need 200 names to be able to move forward. There is a meeting today in Melbourne and have been other meetings around the country. I suggest you ring Barb Vernon at ACMI and she can give you the relevant info for your state Andrea On 05/09/2006, at 8:24 AM, Lisa Barrett wrote:
