Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
Perhaps mechanical delivery is not possible, but certainly a mother birthing a baby herself is possible even when the baby is presenting face first. There was an excellent photo diary on the web last year but was removed after a few weeks. I had printed off the photos and they are just beautiful. I guess when a person calls a birth a mechanical delivery they are not going to see many things that happen as nature intended, or is that just my bias? Nikki Macfarlane www.childbirthinternational.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
I don't know what mechanically delivered means unless they mean using instruments. However the radmid site has great links to stories and pics of face presentations. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
Hi Emily, I believe mento anterior or chin facing mum's pubic bone can birth vaginally. Mento posterior the babe can't come around the curve of the pelvis. Theoretically, at least! Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of EmilySent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 3:31 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] face presentation hi im really sorry that i think this has been discussed not to long ago but i had a frustrating incident with a collegue today who told me very confidently that 'face presentations cannot mechanically be delivered.' i told her i was quite sure it wasnt impossible as i had seen one but she said something like 'no they cant. you might like to think they can but they cant.' i have sent her a photo diary of one little chubby face presenting and birthing without a problem but would like some references or comments from others especially if someone has seen one. thanks so much emily Do you Yahoo!?Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
what she meant by mechanically was that she thought the babes actually couldnt be born vaginally ie mechanically impossible to fit out ! not referring to instrumental delivery she thought categorically that face presentation was an absolute indication for caesar/forceps. yes it seems people who talk of delivering women and babies really do seem to do that. i wonder how much difference it would take if this language was changed? just simple things like people often say 'im going to deliver a baby' rather than 'im going to help a woman birth/deliver her baby.' simplewords that would presumably make women feel much more incontrol and important inthe whole process, rather than a bystander who is 'delivered' here is that photo diary http://www.birthdiaries.com/diary/face.htm Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what mechanically delivered means unless they mean using instruments. However the radmid site has great links to stories and pics of face presentations. J Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
RE: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
Hi Emily, I have a client who, back home in Wales 3 years ago, delivered a 3.8kg face presentation on the bed while everyone was running around organizing a C/S. Scared the life out of her husband who wasnt expecting a bruised, swollen faced baby to appear. The baby had no problems other than being unable to attach on the breast for a few days due to his swollen lips. Cheers, MM From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Emily Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2005 2:37 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation what she meant by mechanically was that she thought the babes actually couldnt be born vaginally ie mechanically impossible to fit out ! not referring to instrumental delivery she thought categorically that face presentation was an absolute indication for caesar/forceps. yes it seems people who talk of delivering women and babies really do seem to do that. i wonder how much difference it would take if this language was changed? just simple things like people often say 'im going to deliver a baby' rather than 'im going to help a woman birth/deliver her baby.' simplewords that would presumably make women feel much more incontrol and important inthe whole process, rather than a bystander who is 'delivered' here is that photo diary http://www.birthdiaries.com/diary/face.htm Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what mechanically delivered means unless they mean using instruments. However the radmid site has great links to stories and pics of face presentations. J Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM more. Check it out!
RE: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
This reminds me of a beautiful baby who presented face first at home after lying in an oblique position antenatally. Took me by surprise but it was one of the easiest births I have seen. Definately had a bruised and swollen face but it disappeared in a matter of hours, with only residula bruising around the mouth. Sally ___ NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
Hi, I helped a woman give birth some time ago to a baby born face first. I remember flipping though the 'textbook in my brain' until I came to chin to pubes. By then of course baby had presented exactly that way and born normally. 2nd degree tear as head flexed through the peri, but apart from that, no problems. I have been taught that if the face presents the other way, ie face to anus, then the head can't flex under the pubis. Hope this helps, Sue hi im really sorry that i think this has been discussed not to long ago but i had a frustrating incident with a collegue today who told me very confidently that 'face presentations cannot mechanically be delivered.' i told her i was quite sure it wasnt impossible as i had seen one but she said something like 'no they cant. you might like to think they can but they cant.' i have sent her a photo diary of one little chubby face presenting and birthing without a problem but would like some references or comments from others especially if someone has seen one. thanks so much emily Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/spamguard/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/protection.html. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
Seen several, delivered a few, the last one was a primip with an OP position which converted to a face in 2nd stage (I remember the long ago tutorials on mechanisms of labour and conversion to face is one possible outcome of persistent OP) This primip delivered well with just a small vaginal graze. If mento-anterior, they can deliver vaginally, mento-posterior will not go around the curve. So tell your colleague she needs to revise her mechanisms! We had a face presentation at work yesterday (I was not there) but the baby was 4770kg and it still came out! Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Emily To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] face presentation hi im really sorry that i think this has been discussed not to long ago but i had a frustrating incident with a collegue today who told me very confidently that 'face presentations cannot mechanically be delivered.' i told her i was quite sure it wasnt impossible as i had seen one but she said something like 'no they cant. you might like to think they can but they cant.' i have sent her a photo diary of one little chubby face presenting and birthing without a problem but would like some references or comments from others especially if someone has seen one. thanks so much emily Do you Yahoo!?Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.4 - Release Date: 6/06/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
a face presentation cannotbirth when the mentum or chin is posterior, unless of course the baby rotates so that the mentum is anterior then depending on the sacrum of the woman, the baby can birth vaginally. It just depends how firmly the baby is in a mentum posterior position. marilyn - Original Message - From: Nikki Macfarlane To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation Perhaps mechanical delivery is not possible, but certainly a mother birthing a baby herself is possible even when the baby is presenting face first. There was an excellent photo diary on the web last year but was removed after a few weeks. I had printed off the photos and they are just beautiful. I guess when a person calls a birth a mechanical delivery they are not going to see many things that happen as nature intended, or is that just my bias? Nikki Macfarlane www.childbirthinternational.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
Having just read the other posts on this - after my reply - I think somepeople are confusing 'mechanical delivery' (presumably meaning instrumental) with 'mechanisms of labour'. Mechanisms refer to the nature of the passage of the baby through the pelvis, and were taught extensively in my student days. They do help one to understand just what is happening with regard to descent, rotation, and advancement of the baby and are different with each type of presentation, OA, OP, breech, face, brow etc. We were taught that mento-posterior absolutely cannot deliver vaginally, but I'm sure a few have managed to get through, small baby in a generous sized pelvis. It would be a difficult vaginal birth though and few would attempt it given a choice. Mento-anterior though is really no harder than OA, but the dimension of the head as it flexes upwards and sweeps the perineum, would be larger than 'normal' and we were taught it was an absolute indication for an episiotomy - that was a while ago and I know better now. The birth I refered to was quite delightful, and as the baby had only extended her head to a face presentation at the last minute, she was not excessively bruised. some I have seen have very severe facial swelling/bruising due to 'forwards' moulding of the face. Actually, I did not know this girl, having just taken over her care when she suddenly started to push - when I saw two little lips appearing, for a moment I thought it was an undiagnosed breech (labia). When I saw the little nose I was much relieved! Regards, Sue PS just home from late shift and had a lovely birth of baby complete in membranes! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Emily To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation what she meant by mechanically was that she thought the babes actually couldnt be born vaginally ie mechanically impossible to fit out ! not referring to instrumental delivery she thought categorically that face presentation was an absolute indication for caesar/forceps. yes it seems people who talk of delivering women and babies really do seem to do that. i wonder how much difference it would take if this language was changed? just simple things like people often say 'im going to deliver a baby' rather than 'im going to help a woman birth/deliver her baby.' simplewords that would presumably make women feel much more incontrol and important inthe whole process, rather than a bystander who is 'delivered' here is that photo diary http://www.birthdiaries.com/diary/face.htm Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what mechanically delivered means unless they mean using instruments. However the radmid site has great links to stories and pics of face presentations. J Discover Yahoo!Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM more. Check it out! No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.4 - Release Date: 6/06/2005
[ozmidwifery] face presentation
hi im really sorry that i think this has been discussed not to long ago but i had a frustrating incident with a collegue today who told me very confidently that 'face presentations cannot mechanically be delivered.' i told her i was quite sure it wasnt impossible as i had seen one but she said something like 'no they cant. you might like to think they can but they cant.' i have sent her a photo diary of one little chubby face presenting and birthing without a problem but would like some references or comments from others especially if someone has seen one. thanks so much emily Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
[ozmidwifery] face presentation
If anatomical anomalies in mother and baby are excluded, what are the chances of face presentation re-occurring in a second, full term pregnancy? Kirsten Blacker
Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
Pretty remote, I would have to say, as face presentation is a rare occurrence anyway, and this woman does not have an anatomical reason for it and neither does the babe. However, Mother Nature surprises us sometimes! - Original Message - From: Kirsten Blacker To: ozmid Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:06 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] face presentation If anatomical anomalies in mother and baby are excluded, what are the chances of face presentation re-occurring in a second, full term pregnancy? Kirsten Blacker
Re: [ozmidwifery] face presentation
I have heard of it happening twice to a woman who was in CA for the first baby and Oregon for the second. While no abnormality was diagnosed in the woman, the first baby has some neuromuscular disorder/impairment ( though no intellectual impairment). There was some thought that a prolonged second stage which ended in a c/s, was responsible for this condition but when the second baby settled into a face presentation quite early in the third trimester (dx by u/s)this has been reconsidered. The last plans I heard were some eighteem months ago and the mother was planning an elective c/s. Don't know the final outcome. All other face presentations I have been aware of have been one off situations. marilyn - Original Message - From: Kirsten Blacker To: ozmid Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:06 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] face presentation If anatomical anomalies in mother and baby are excluded, what are the chances of face presentation re-occurring in a second, full term pregnancy? Kirsten Blacker
