Re: [PD] Fwd: any way to connect puredata and Quartcomposer?
Check this thread: http://processing.org/discourse/yabb_beta/YaBB.cgi?board=Integrate;action=display;num=1167143878 The files are here: http://www.megaphile.com/file/3210/P5-QC-zip.html a quick Google search does wonders! ;-) (Just kidding, I recalled hearing about it on CDM). ~Kyle On 5/27/07, bernardo amorim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: bernardo amorim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: May 27, 2007 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [PD] any way to connect puredata and Quartcomposer? To: Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] i´m sorry but i havent found any osc patch for quartz composer... so any ideias please help puredata (midi to tcp/ip) sends to another computer running pd with net receive and midi out midipipes on the same computer sends midi signals to quartzcomposer... this would far more great if i could only send tcp ip signals to quartzcomposer establishing a realtime co9nnection beteween the to computers... hugs bern -- Raging_Synth Bernardo Gomes de Amorim - 2006 Confidencialidade de Correio electrónico Este email destina-se exclusivamente à(s) pessoa(s) a quem é dirigido e não deverá em caso algum ser reencaminhado ou reutilizado para nenhum fim a não ser aquele para o qual foi criado. Aplicável tambem aos attachments. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] puredata evolution
I think that the benevolent dictatorship of Pd lends to so much development anarchy, it's a wonder any coordination happens at all! All jokes aside, I'm perplexed by the sociology/ethnology of open source projects, because there is so little stratified structure. In order to channel the decision-making process, there must be at least SOME kind of hierarchy to get things moving. Maybe this (plus tons of cash flow) is how corporations are able to leverage the development that they command. Just some pre-snooze thoughts mulling in my head...Thoughts? ~Kyle On 5/27/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's an interesting talk, they point out a number of key issues that have affected us as a community. I think the idea of poisonous people is a useful one, but I would take the focus away from people and talk more about poisonous activities. While there are definitely some people who have been more poisonous than others, I think that probably every single Pd developer at some point has been poisonous. I know I have and I have been thinking a fair amount about how to stop myself from doing that. I guess the easiest thing I have been trying to do is to spend less time arguing in email and more time coding. Another point they talk about is having a focus. I think Pd suffers from the lack of focus. As a software project, it has an unusual structure, which makes it difficult to clearly outline the focus. That's something I am planning on working on in the coming months, trying to figure out my own focus in all this. Pd is quite a bit different here also since it covers a very wide range of topics, so there isn't really the possibility of a strong focus like with subversion. Hopefully we can discuss this more at the Pd Convention. It's always many times more productive to speak face-to-face. Plus I think it's many times more fun than sitting alone behind the laptop... .hc On May 25, 2007, at 6:37 PM, marius schebella wrote: victor wrote: summarizing: Which is the next future of PureData Before I try to answer that question, please keep in mind that you cannot compare an open source software project to any company driven proprietary software. Lots of people have been working very hard to bring Pd to the current state and propably 99 times more people use it in their work, and I saw some great artwork done with it. Seriously, I don't know so many other art software packages of that size. (I am thinking of maybe blender, processing, gimp, audacity...) But let's talk about the future. Btw there is a nice talk about open source software projects, which was given at google talks. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 To me it seems there is not really a clear direction of what Pd should be. Speaking as a user I only can speculate, but most probably none of the people who have contributed Pd code have ever agreed on a certain featurelist of a final version. Or whether there should be a v 1.0 at all. But that does not mean that there is no progress. Regarding the social aspect there will be the second puredata conference in late August in Montreal. People are doing lot of work to get this running. Then there are the summer of code projects http://puredata.org/dev/summer-of- code. Other people are working on documentation and tutorials and others try to integrate all the different libraries into one release. btw. it is too late for this year's prix ars electronica, but since there is a category digital community Pd definitely should go for that next year... marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] (no subject)
Hi I have some newbie questions about Pd. I wanted to write a Patch which is based on this one (maybe): http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-643-sample-player The mentioned Sample Player has 2 Sliders which control the Start-/ End-Loop position which is the exact thing what i was looking for. What i want to do: I want to make a patch, a sample player. When i press a button i want to loop the actual sample position according to the key i have pressed. I give you an example. I load a loop which is 120 BPM fast. I set somewhere my tempo. When i press a it starts looping 1/4th at the actual play position. For this sort of thing. The Sample Player seems to be perfect. But now there are the difficulties. - How can i set the tempo right? I figured out how to calculate the tempo for any note length. - How can i get my keyboard entries into the software? - And lust but not least. How can i get the Patch to act how i would like. I know...dumb question you know too. But maybe there is someone who knows an answer. Many, many thanks. ––– Zeitler Andreas ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] puredata evolution
On Sun, 2007-05-27 at 23:39 -0400, Chris McCormick wrote: Also, whenever somebody's patch is not accepted by Miller they often decide to fork Pd. In other open source projects it is very normal for the project maintainer to drop patches with very little info, or even completely silently. When this happens in Pd development, people sometimes get antagonistic and/or frustrated forking is something, that's happening in other free software communities as well and is usually a way to speed up the development process if the maintainer becomes too conservative ... the history of gcc shows a successful fork ... but there are always two sides ... the developer doing the fork is loosing the support of the community and the community is loosing the support of the developer ... it's good to see this discussion on the pd-list, though ... tim -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 96771783 http://tim.klingt.org I had nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion Jack Kerouac signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] subtractive synth - minimoog model
On Sun, 2007-05-27 at 23:08 -0400, Chris McCormick wrote: For analogue sounding oscillators I highly recommend Roman's blosc~ abstractions. They sound beautiful when filtered. Search the list archives to find them. you'll find them here [1]. beware, there is an issue, that has not been solved yet. in order to save cpu and memory, the tables are only created for the first instance of an oscillator and used by all instances. but if the first instance (with the tables) is removed, the other instances won't work anymore. there is a workaround implemented in the netpd-versions of the bandlimited oscillators [2]. the first instance of an oscillators opens a patch, that creates and holds the tables. this patch stays invisibly open, until pd is quit. this works only in netpd, because the path to the tables-patch needs to be known (1) (one could manually change the netpd-path to something different in order to use these abstractions outside of netpd). [1] http://www.romanhaefeli.net/software/pd/ [2] http://www.romanhaefeli.net/software/netpd/ roman (1) pathes to the [open(-message to pd (to open patches dynamically) are relative to pd's start location and NOT relative to the parent patch. i really hope, that this behaviour will be changed in future versions (or at least new behaviour added in order to keep backwards compatibility) of pd, since now it is impossible to distribute pd-projects, that do dynamically open patches without having to deliver start-up script or force the user to edit a settings-file (as netpd uses one). ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] puredata evolution
On Sun, 2007-05-27 at 23:39 -0400, Chris McCormick wrote: In the Pd sources under src/notes.txt there is a list of all of the things that Miller wants to add/change in Pd. thanks for mentioning this. i didn't know about this file. many things of my desire are already in this list (whereas others are not, of course :-) ) roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] puredata evolution
On Sun, 2007-05-27 at 17:59 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Another point they talk about is having a focus. I think Pd suffers from the lack of focus. As a software project, it has an unusual structure, which makes it difficult to clearly outline the focus. That's something I am planning on working on in the coming months, trying to figure out my own focus in all this. Pd is quite a bit different here also since it covers a very wide range of topics, so there isn't really the possibility of a strong focus like with subversion. hi hans yeah, a software project needs definitely a focus. for myself, i always believed, that pd's focus is audio and that is also the reason, why i came to pd. and when having a look at src/notes.txt i still think, pd's focus is on audio. so, i am not quite sure, if pd really lacks a focus. which, on the other hand, doesn't mean, that pd can be used in outside-of-audio contexts, but then one needs to use externals (or a dev needs to write an external first). so, externals are focussed on 'specialized' - non-audio - applications. this is my subjective view of things. was it that, what you meant by a 'focus'? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sample playing
Hallo, Zeitler Andreas hat gesagt: // Zeitler Andreas wrote: I have some newbie questions about Pd. I wanted to write a Patch which is based on this one (maybe): http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-643-sample-player The mentioned Sample Player has 2 Sliders which control the Start-/ End-Loop position which is the exact thing what i was looking for. Attached is a slightly different sampler, actually not a sampler itself, but a tutorial on how to build your own sampler. What i want to do: I want to make a patch, a sample player. When i press a button i want to loop the actual sample position according to the key i have pressed. I give you an example. I load a loop which is 120 BPM fast. I set somewhere my tempo. When i press a it starts looping 1/4th at the actual play position. For this sort of thing. The Sample Player seems to be perfect. But now there are the difficulties. - How can i set the tempo right? I figured out how to calculate the tempo for any note length. If you work through attached tutorial, maybe some of the neccessary calculations (as: duration(smps) = duration(msec) etc.) become clearer. - How can i get my keyboard entries into the software? Use the [keyname] or [key] objects. - And lust but not least. How can i get the Patch to act how i would like. Just build it! If you get stuck, try to make a patch that illustrates where you got stuck and send it here. You may want to start with empty subpatches, that divide your problem/approach into smaller problems/steps. Like first do a completely empty patch and put some empty subpatches in there: [pd load_file] [pd get_duration_in_msec] [pd convert_duration_to_BPM] [pd get_keypresses] [pd play_sample] or similar. Then give your subpatches inlets and outlets and connect them in order. And last fill in these subpatches with the real patches one by one, always checking if every subpatch does what it should do. I know...dumb question you know too. It's not a dumb question at all. While playing samples isn't exactly magic, it's also not trivial to do, especially for the first time. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ playing-samples.pd Description: application/puredata ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] subtractive synth - minimoog model
Am 27.05.2007 um 04:43 schrieb Josh Lawrence: incidentally, I found a nice minimoog synth on the web, but one thing that I absolutely cannot stand with that and ams is the lack of ability to retrigger a held note after another one is played (I think this has been called the trilogy trill - make sense?). this is a must on an analog synth. chris mentioned it, did you try this one? http://music.ucsd.edu/~tre/SananMiniMoog.zip can anyone point me to some tutorials? that depends where you are in the learning curve.. i liked these ones: http://www.sideshowmedia.ca/audiotuts.zip http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/padawan12/onlinetutorials/html/ tutorials_main.html ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] proposals for src/notes.txt
hi all, hi miller i just had a look at src/notes.txt and many of my longterm desires are mentioned there (especially [vthreshold~], [vreadsf~], [closebang], disabling scrollbars and menus, and many other things...) but there are still things left, which i consider to be (even more) essential for pd and for which i strongly hope that they make it into src/notes.txt. here a short list, where i also try to explain, why i think, these issues are essential: - new object [symbol2list] (maybe called differently?) since the introduction of [list], pd's message and string handling became much stronger, even more since the behaviour of messageboxes changed, that made it possible to use dollargs within a string. since then, basic string handling seems to be a task, that can be done fully inside of pd, without having to use externals, BUT there is still no way to split symbols into lists. if that would be implemented into pd, one could claim without bad conscious, that basic string handling could be fully done with pure internals. so for completeness' sake, it would be nice, if such functionality would make it into pd. - [open(-msg to pd needs an option to set path relative to patch the situation now is, that the path (second argument) to the open-message is relative to the start location. since there is no way to get the start-location path in pd, i can't see, in which case this behaviour could be useful. in contrary: this behaviour makes it difficult to distribute pd-projects (set of patches), that do use the [; pd open(-message, since the pd's start location is different on each system, and even if it would be the same on every system, a user would be forced to put the pd-files to certain location, so that the hardcoded relative path is valid. if the path would be relative to the parent patch, pd-projects would work out of the box, independently from pd's start location. afaik, netpd is not the only project, that suffers from this problem. now, a (in my eyes) quite ugly workaround needs to be used: an external config-file to set absolute path of the project folder, that needs to be edited by the user. - [declare]: '-path' does affect only parent patch, not all patches i don't know, if this behaviour is intended (frank barknecht declared it to be a bug once). anyway, for projects consisting of a set of patches and abstractions, it would seem to make sense, if the [declare]d abstraction would be available to all patches, that are openend subsequently, so that such projects could be shared easily. i know, i am repeating myself, but the above things are important to me (and, i think, to pd-projects in general) and i never got an answer yet, if they are planned to be implemented in future versions of pd. i consider the ability to distribute pd-projects to be one of the strong and important points of pd (besides the compatibility across os') and therefore it would be nice, if at least the last two points could make it into pd. i'd really appreciate to get a feedback on these proposals. if i know, that [open(-message with a path relative to path never will make it into pd, i can start thinking about using a standardized set of externals ([getdir] and maybe others) in my projects to overcome these issues. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] subtractive synth - minimoog model
Josh Lawrence schreef: hello all! I was on this list some time back, but unsubscribed due to lack of time to learn pd. the time issue is a little better, so I have resubscribed in the hopes of learning this app. here's my question: I really, really want a minimoog, but can't afford one. ;) I think that building one in pd using ladspa plugins (much like alsamodularsynth) would be a perfect way to dip my toe in the shallow end of pd. however, I can't figure out what to do once I get pd opened. I can add [plugin~ name.so], but I really don't know what else to do. incidentally, I found a nice minimoog synth on the web, but one thing that I absolutely cannot stand with that and ams is the lack of ability to retrigger a held note after another one is played (I think this has been called the trilogy trill - make sense?). this is a must on an analog synth. can anyone point me to some tutorials or give me some help with this? from tom erbe's blog: Mon Mar 21, 2005 MUSIC 171 - Best of Finals There were some really fantastic final projects for Music 171 this year, and I wanted to post what I thought were the best emulations. All of these are pd patches. Matthew Bielich's Arp Odyssey http://music.ucsd.edu/~tre/BielichArpOdyssey.zip Patrick Sanan's Minimoog http://music.ucsd.edu/~tre/SananMiniMoog.zip For those not in the class, these are the projects for the UCSD Computer Music I class, the introductory computer music class which most take in their 3rd year as an undergraduate. The assignment was to emulate either a Minimoog, Arp Odyssey, SCI Pro-One or Oxford OSCar in either Max/MSP or pd. m -- http://www.mprims.net ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] puredata evolution
Roman Haefeli wrote: was it that, what you meant by a 'focus'? for me, the biggest issue is with the UI. almost none of the points in src/notes.txt deal with the GUI, and certainly there is no talk at all of gui improvements. to me the engine works fine - i mean, pd crashes sometimes but this is usually due to missing or broken externals than to do with anything in the engine. it is the gui that needs work. i would like to work on this but i don't know where to start. -- damian stewart | +44 7854 493 796 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] proposals for src/notes.txt
Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: but there are still things left, which i consider to be (even more) essential for pd and for which i strongly hope that they make it into src/notes.txt. here a short list, where i also try to explain, why i think, these issues are essential: I think, you should just put these as feature requests into the Bug Tracker. Then if someone (Miller, others) is looking for ideas to improve Pd, one could just go through the tracker and take whatever seems doable ATM. - [declare]: '-path' does affect only parent patch, not all patches i don't know, if this behaviour is intended (frank barknecht declared it to be a bug once). I already added a bug report regarding declare, however not for the behaviour you describe now. I don't necessarily think, that [declare] instructions should dive down into abstractions that are used in a patch. As I understand it [declare] is only applied for the current patch or even canvas. The bug I reported was, that declare doesn't work correctly when used inside an abstraction. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (no subject)
If you're just getting started with Pd, it might be a good idea to use the [susloop~] external because it also allows for dynamic pitch shift, the math for which can be tricky (though apparently someone just got it down on their own recently if I recall from a previous post). Are you using Pd-extended? It has this object included by default in the bsaylor library. Look into the documentation, it's a really handy one, I have attached my GUI for it which you can use by putting the attached file into your extra directory and then typing susloopgui~ to create the object. As for intervals like 1/4, etc... use [key] or [keyname]. [key] will give you the numeric keycode for a keyboard press; using [sel] you can then do the appropriate math based on which key is pressed. Again I don't know how new you are to pd, but proficiency with sends and receives, hot and cold inlets using trigger, etc will be really helpful in getting all to work properly as far as the math goes. For setting tempo, you will need to calculate the total length of the sample and divide it accordingly. With susloop~ you give it a beginning and end point in samples (as in the actual pieces of data, not soundfiles), so you could say that a quarternote at 120 BPM with a samplerate of 44100 samples per second would be 22050 samples long, right? Thus an eighth note is 11025, and so on with division. The attached gui has the sliders implemented. I hope that this helps a little bit! Good luck, Kevin On 5/28/07, Zeitler Andreas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I have some newbie questions about Pd. I wanted to write a Patch which is based on this one (maybe): http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-643-sample-player The mentioned Sample Player has 2 Sliders which control the Start-/ End-Loop position which is the exact thing what i was looking for. What i want to do: I want to make a patch, a sample player. When i press a button i want to loop the actual sample position according to the key i have pressed. I give you an example. I load a loop which is 120 BPM fast. I set somewhere my tempo. When i press a it starts looping 1/4th at the actual play position. For this sort of thing. The Sample Player seems to be perfect. But now there are the difficulties. - How can i set the tempo right? I figured out how to calculate the tempo for any note length. - How can i get my keyboard entries into the software? - And lust but not least. How can i get the Patch to act how i would like. I know...dumb question you know too. But maybe there is someone who knows an answer. Many, many thanks. ––– Zeitler Andreas ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://pocketkm.blogspot.com susloopgui~.pd Description: Binary data ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] proposals for src/notes.txt
On Mon, 2007-05-28 at 16:49 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: but there are still things left, which i consider to be (even more) essential for pd and for which i strongly hope that they make it into src/notes.txt. here a short list, where i also try to explain, why i think, these issues are essential: I think, you should just put these as feature requests into the Bug Tracker. Then if someone (Miller, others) is looking for ideas to improve Pd, one could just go through the tracker and take whatever seems doable ATM. aha, ok. i'll do that. thanks for the hint. - [declare]: '-path' does affect only parent patch, not all patches i don't know, if this behaviour is intended (frank barknecht declared it to be a bug once). I already added a bug report regarding declare, however not for the behaviour you describe now. I don't necessarily think, that [declare] instructions should dive down into abstractions that are used in a patch. As I understand it [declare] is only applied for the current patch or even canvas. The bug I reported was, that declare doesn't work correctly when used inside an abstraction. hm... then obviously we misunderstood each other in the previous thread. anyway, you found a bug and it is in the tracker now. i hoped, that i can get rid of the startup options with [declare], so that pd doesn't need additional flags for running netpd. but this means, that it is not possible (or i need to add a [declare] in every patch and every abs, which is a bit awkward). roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] proposals for src/notes.txt
Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: i hoped, that i can get rid of the startup options with [declare], so that pd doesn't need additional flags for running netpd. but this means, that it is not possible (or i need to add a [declare] in every patch and every abs, which is a bit awkward). Recursive declares could be a problem, if you'd use an abstraction, that in turn needs a different declare, possibly with a nameclash. Say you'd want to use Cyclone's counter and declare -lib cyclone. An abstraction you use may want to use cxc's counter. With recursive declares, this could generate a nameclash in that abstraction. A way out would be a hierarchical system for declares, but that's even farther. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [declare]: -path seems not to be added to the searchpathes
On Mon, 2007-05-07 at 19:55 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: On Mon, 2007-05-07 at 16:58 +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: hi i cannot get [declare]'s -path-flag working. i tried relative pathes as well as absolute ones. oh yes, i forgot: that's a problem with [declare]; it only gets executed when the patch is loaded ah, ok. thanks. however, it works only for the patch, that is containing the [declare]-object, whereas at the same time a [declare -lib /path/to/somelib] makes the objects from the external somelib available for all patches running in the same instance of pd. isn't that kind of inconsistent? This clearly is a bug in [declare]. I now filed a bug report regarding this behaviour with ID 1714473. Attached is the example I used to illustrate the bug. sorry, i didn't check your declare-test-setup. otherwise, i'd have noticed, that we are not speaking about the same thing. what you found, is a far more complex issue than what i was speaking about. what i meant to be inconsistent: - [declare -lib somelib] makes the objects of the external 'somelib' availabe to ALL patches, not only to the [declare]'s parent patch. - [declare -path somefolder] makes the abstractions from 'somefolder' available ONLY to the parent patch, i.e. the patch, that contains the [declare]. i don't see why abstractions from a certain location should be handled differently than objects from a certain library? shouldn't they be treated the same (at least from the user's point of view)? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] proposals for src/notes.txt
On Mon, 2007-05-28 at 20:30 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: i hoped, that i can get rid of the startup options with [declare], so that pd doesn't need additional flags for running netpd. but this means, that it is not possible (or i need to add a [declare] in every patch and every abs, which is a bit awkward). Recursive declares could be a problem, if you'd use an abstraction, that in turn needs a different declare, possibly with a nameclash. Say you'd want to use Cyclone's counter and declare -lib cyclone. An abstraction you use may want to use cxc's counter. With recursive declares, this could generate a nameclash in that abstraction. A way out would be a hierarchical system for declares, but that's even farther. Ciao hm, it's not that i wanted to use [declare]'s inside abstractions and it turned out, that it is not necessary at all (at least for what i want). but every patch needs a [declare -path], whereas only one (the first loaded) patch needs a [declare -lib]. i find that inconsistent. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [declare]: -path seems not to be added to the searchpathes
Hallo, first: Maybe we should avoid the term parent patch for the patch, that contains the [declare] object. Generally parent seems to be used for specifying the parent of an abstraction as in graph on parent. One could consider an object like [declare] to be like an abstraction and then its parent would be the patch that contains [declare]. However IMO this becomes confusing when talking about the parent of an abstraction that itself contains the [declare]. Does someone have a better term for the patch, that contains an object? Maybe the owner or so. Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: what i meant to be inconsistent: - [declare -lib somelib] makes the objects of the external 'somelib' availabe to ALL patches, not only to the [declare]'s parent patch. Currently it's impossible to unload a binary object (builtin or external) from Pd once it is loaded. Loading the wrong [counter] binary will make all your [counter] objects behave like the one loaded first. That's also why you cannot overwrite binary objects with abstractions. Just try it. So the fact that [declare -lib somelib] acts globally actually is unavoidable and might even be considered a bug. - [declare -path somefolder] makes the abstractions from 'somefolder' available ONLY to the parent patch, i.e. the patch, that contains the [declare]. That's the idea IIRC: Only the owner should see that modified path. Unfortunatly that behaviuor is currently broken for [declare -path ...] in abstractions. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] any way to connect puredata and Quartcomposer?
On 28 May 2007, at 03:54, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [PD] any way to connect puredata and Quartcomposer? Hi bernardo Just reading an archive mail so this might arrive late for you. A way to control QC from PD through OSC would be to create the QC project and load it into a SuperCollider window (SuperCollider has a QC view). You then send your OSC messages to a OSCresponderNode in SuperCollider that redirects your message to the QC view. No MIDI involved, thank the gods. Good luck thor___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [declare]: -path seems not to be added to the searchpathes
On Mon, 2007-05-28 at 22:42 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, first: Maybe we should avoid the term parent patch for the patch, that contains the [declare] object. Generally parent seems to be used for specifying the parent of an abstraction as in graph on parent. One could consider an object like [declare] to be like an abstraction and then its parent would be the patch that contains [declare]. However IMO this becomes confusing when talking about the parent of an abstraction that itself contains the [declare]. Does someone have a better term for the patch, that contains an object? Maybe the owner or so. yeah, using 'parent' lead to confusions. i'll use 'owner patch' in the future. Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: what i meant to be inconsistent: - [declare -lib somelib] makes the objects of the external 'somelib' availabe to ALL patches, not only to the [declare]'s parent patch. Currently it's impossible to unload a binary object (builtin or external) from Pd once it is loaded. Loading the wrong [counter] binary will make all your [counter] objects behave like the one loaded first. That's also why you cannot overwrite binary objects with abstractions. Just try it. So the fact that [declare -lib somelib] acts globally actually is unavoidable and might even be considered a bug. - [declare -path somefolder] makes the abstractions from 'somefolder' available ONLY to the parent patch, i.e. the patch, that contains the [declare]. That's the idea IIRC: Only the owner should see that modified path. Unfortunatly that behaviuor is currently broken for [declare -path ...] in abstractions. thanks for the explanations. that makes sense for me now. am i right then, that: [declare myfolder] [myabs] and [myfolder/myabs] are essentially the same thing? if yes, what is the advantage of using [declare]? roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Behavoir of [keyup] in Linux
# Hi! # I started to write an answer to a question on list about using keyboard input in a patch. Then I realized that a patch which I written in Windows does not work well under Linux, to which I have switched weeks ago. # When I press and hold a key, after a short time [keyup] starts to output the number of that key repeatedly (before releasing it). In Windows it only outputs the key no when a key is released. Do you have any idea why there is a difference between two platforms? # I'm using canonical Pd version 0.40-2 under Ubuntu Feisty. -ugur guney- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [declare]: -path seems not to be added to the searchpathes
On May 28, 2007, at 6:03 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Mon, 2007-05-28 at 22:42 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, first: Maybe we should avoid the term parent patch for the patch, that contains the [declare] object. Generally parent seems to be used for specifying the parent of an abstraction as in graph on parent. One could consider an object like [declare] to be like an abstraction and then its parent would be the patch that contains [declare]. However IMO this becomes confusing when talking about the parent of an abstraction that itself contains the [declare]. Does someone have a better term for the patch, that contains an object? Maybe the owner or so. yeah, using 'parent' lead to confusions. i'll use 'owner patch' in the future. Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: what i meant to be inconsistent: - [declare -lib somelib] makes the objects of the external 'somelib' availabe to ALL patches, not only to the [declare]'s parent patch. Currently it's impossible to unload a binary object (builtin or external) from Pd once it is loaded. Loading the wrong [counter] binary will make all your [counter] objects behave like the one loaded first. That's also why you cannot overwrite binary objects with abstractions. Just try it. So the fact that [declare -lib somelib] acts globally actually is unavoidable and might even be considered a bug. - [declare -path somefolder] makes the abstractions from 'somefolder' available ONLY to the parent patch, i.e. the patch, that contains the [declare]. That's the idea IIRC: Only the owner should see that modified path. Unfortunatly that behaviuor is currently broken for [declare -path ...] in abstractions. thanks for the explanations. that makes sense for me now. am i right then, that: [declare myfolder] [myabs] and [myfolder/myabs] are essentially the same thing? if yes, what is the advantage of using [declare]? Yeah, they are essentially the same thing. The advantages of using [declare] would be that the names are shorter and perhaps more readable in the context of that patch. Plus the help files would work :-/. IIRC, cliking Help on [myfolder/myabs] won't find the help file. That should be fixed, but it's not simple, unfortunately. .hc roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Behavoir of [keyup] in Linux
ugur guney wrote: # Hi! # I started to write an answer to a question on list about using keyboard input in a patch. Then I realized that a patch which I written in Windows does not work well under Linux, to which I have switched weeks ago. # When I press and hold a key, after a short time [keyup] starts to output the number of that key repeatedly (before releasing it). In Windows it only outputs the key no when a key is released. Do you have any idea why there is a difference between two platforms? It's just the way X11 works, as far as I understand it. I did a test with GridFlow, and the same thing happens (console log from attached patch): (y key pressed and held) print: 10960 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 520 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 20 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 20 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 60 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 20 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 20 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 0 keyrelease 129 106 0 y (y key really released) Here the first number is the elapsed time since the previous event (measured in Pd logical time). It would be possible to patch up something that would discard any keyrelease immediately-followed-by keypress for the same key pairs that occur with an elapsed time of 0 (hint: it would use [delay 0.1] or so, maybe even [delay 0] would work). The last keyrelease would be delayed a little, but it would either be unnoticeable with [delay 0.1] or at exactly the same logical time with [delay 0] # I'm using canonical Pd version 0.40-2 under Ubuntu Feisty. -ugur guney- Pd 0.40-2 under pure:dyne 2.3.57 here. Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org #N canvas 594 349 450 300 10; #X obj 81 104 #out window; #X obj 81 223 print; #X obj 104 160 timer; #X obj 81 131 t a b b; #X obj 81 197 list prepend; #X connect 0 0 3 0; #X connect 2 0 4 1; #X connect 3 0 4 0; #X connect 3 1 2 0; #X connect 3 2 2 1; #X connect 4 0 1 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] puredata evolution
On May 28, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Damian Stewart wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: was it that, what you meant by a 'focus'? for me, the biggest issue is with the UI. almost none of the points in src/notes.txt deal with the GUI, and certainly there is no talk at all of gui improvements. to me the engine works fine - i mean, pd crashes sometimes but this is usually due to missing or broken externals than to do with anything in the engine. it is the gui that needs work. i would like to work on this but i don't know where to start. One thing that would be a great improvement, would not touch much other code, and be likely to be accepted would be an overhaul of the preference panels. IMHO, there should be just one preference window, with separate tabs for each section. While this is all Tcl/Tk code, you don't really need to know much Tcl in order to do this. The Tk stuff works like most standard GUI layout stuff, and the list can help with the Tcl quirks. Another thing that is always useful is making better help patches. Just submit them to the patch tracker so they can be reviewed. .hc -- damian stewart | +44 7854 493 796 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] puredata evolution
A lot of GUI could be improved without major changes to all of Pd. At the very least, it could be included in Pd-extended. Once this version of Pd-extended is released, I still have to turn all the GUI tweaks I did into patches and hopefully Miller will accept them. .hc On May 28, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Kevin McCoy wrote: The gui needs work - do you mean we need more/better looking gui objects? When I was working on OS X, I couldn't really use very many gui objects at once because of Apple's crappy closed implementation of tcl/tk; the lag was terrible. Pd devs can't really do anything about that (though it is a huge problem). A significant portion of pd users are on OS X. Pd's gui definitely does need work, but without a clear roadmap it will be hard to say what priority that is, right? Watching that google talk has me thinking about all kinds of things. Kevin On 5/28/07, Damian Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: was it that, what you meant by a 'focus'? for me, the biggest issue is with the UI. almost none of the points in src/notes.txt deal with the GUI, and certainly there is no talk at all of gui improvements. to me the engine works fine - i mean, pd crashes sometimes but this is usually due to missing or broken externals than to do with anything in the engine. it is the gui that needs work. i would like to work on this but i don't know where to start. -- damian stewart | +44 7854 493 796 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- http://pocketkm.blogspot.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Behavoir of [keyup] in Linux
You can use [hid] to get the raw keyboard events, but it's not quite as easy as [keyup]. Plus it doesn't work on Windows. .hc On May 28, 2007, at 11:05 PM, Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: ugur guney wrote: # Hi! # I started to write an answer to a question on list about using keyboard input in a patch. Then I realized that a patch which I written in Windows does not work well under Linux, to which I have switched weeks ago. # When I press and hold a key, after a short time [keyup] starts to output the number of that key repeatedly (before releasing it). In Windows it only outputs the key no when a key is released. Do you have any idea why there is a difference between two platforms? It's just the way X11 works, as far as I understand it. I did a test with GridFlow, and the same thing happens (console log from attached patch): (y key pressed and held) print: 10960 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 520 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 20 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 20 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 60 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 20 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 20 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 40 keyrelease 129 106 0 y print: 0 keypress 129 106 0 y print: 0 keyrelease 129 106 0 y (y key really released) Here the first number is the elapsed time since the previous event (measured in Pd logical time). It would be possible to patch up something that would discard any keyrelease immediately-followed- by keypress for the same key pairs that occur with an elapsed time of 0 (hint: it would use [delay 0.1] or so, maybe even [delay 0] would work). The last keyrelease would be delayed a little, but it would either be unnoticeable with [delay 0.1] or at exactly the same logical time with [delay 0] # I'm using canonical Pd version 0.40-2 under Ubuntu Feisty. -ugur guney- Pd 0.40-2 under pure:dyne 2.3.57 here. Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org #N canvas 594 349 450 300 10; #X obj 81 104 #out window; #X obj 81 223 print; #X obj 104 160 timer; #X obj 81 131 t a b b; #X obj 81 197 list prepend; #X connect 0 0 3 0; #X connect 2 0 4 1; #X connect 3 0 4 0; #X connect 3 1 2 0; #X connect 3 2 2 1; #X connect 4 0 1 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] puredata evolution
On Mon, May 28, 2007 at 11:44:22AM +0200, Tim Blechmann wrote: On Sun, 2007-05-27 at 23:39 -0400, Chris McCormick wrote: Also, whenever somebody's patch is not accepted by Miller they often decide to fork Pd. In other open source projects it is very normal for the project maintainer to drop patches with very little info, or even completely silently. When this happens in Pd development, people sometimes get antagonistic and/or frustrated forking is something, that's happening in other free software communities as well and is usually a way to speed up the development process if the maintainer becomes too conservative ... the history of gcc shows a successful fork ... but there are always two sides ... the developer doing the fork is loosing the support of the community and the community is loosing the support of the developer ... it's good to see this discussion on the pd-list, though ... Yeah, I agree completely on all counts. Sometimes really great software comes out of forks. DesireData looks really interesting, and I know that nova isn't a fork, but it looks interesting too. Can't wait until some of these cool bits of software reach maturity (same goes for Pd)! Lovin' the Free world, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] hid compiling problem.
Hi, I`m having some problems compiling [hid] on a 64.studio (linux, debian based). Is there anything like a how to or something with this issue. When I do the make it sais: input_arrays.h:5: *** missing separator. stop. I did the make like the one in the README with the corresponding directories of my pc. make INCLUDE=/usr/lib/pd/src PDEXECUTABLE=/usr/lib/pd test -f input_arrays.h || ./make-arrays-from-input.h.pl Thanks. - Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
