From: J bz jbee...@gmail.com
To: Ed Kelly morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Tue, 4 January, 2011 10:01:08
Subject: Re: [PD] Musical notation object on Pd
Hi Ed,
Hope you don't mind me writing to you directly...
I was following this thread with interest, and have been checking
...@gmail.com
To: Ed Kelly morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Tue, 4 January, 2011 10:01:08
Subject: Re: [PD] Musical notation object on Pd
Hi Ed,
Hope you don't mind me writing to you directly...
I was following this thread with interest, and have been checking your
'teasers'
for your upcoming project
With regards to Gemnotes - the notation system you saw - it is my current
nightmare since I have the first performance of the first piece that uses it
in
2 weeks, and I'm still coding the external that manages it. Also, I've found
that to run enough TTF objects in GEM to render a score takes
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010, patko wrote:
That could be a complicated question, because I'm not sure to have used
to good word, for describing who in the future will be able to have a
clue about what is wrote on the paper, and this is also influenced by
what E. Varese said about music in the future,
On Sun, 14 Nov 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
non-linear form - music where the audience can scrub (and ultimately
overwrite) moments of pretension and/or rigidity during the performance
of a piece.
funny, I thought it had to do with multidimensional calculus (which has
something called
On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, João Pais wrote:
Absolutely, he can't (and that can be a good thing). How do you know how
a staccato in a Beethoven piano sonata really sounds? Even if you get
the right instrument (not a piano, but a pianoforte, and a specific
model at that), you would have to go to the
Absolutely, he can't (and that can be a good thing). How do you know how
a staccato in a Beethoven piano sonata really sounds? Even if you get
the right instrument (not a piano, but a pianoforte, and a specific
model at that), you would have to go to the propper room where it should
be performed
--- On Tue, 11/16/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] Musical notation object on Pd
To: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 7:20 PM
On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, João
- Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca a écrit :
On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, patko wrote:
particulary Xi for flûte,
http://james-ingram-act-two.de/stockhausen/Xi/sxia1l.html
I just noticed the parts in IPA (phonetic alphabet).
[y] [ø] [œ]
First time I see those on a score.
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010, patko wrote:
I'm thinking about additions, by using a dimension value for the number
of notes in a scale, and a value corresponding with alteration, so G
major scale would look like this [7 # 0 0 0 1 0 0 0(.
You don't need to write the 7 # part, because you are already
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010, João Pais wrote:
I didn't see Mathieu's object yet, but just a small opinion about
mouse-dragging (or mouse events): afaik, the graphical display of
musical elements in open music et al is just a display, just an
expressive way of looking at numbers. I'm not sure if these
On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, patko wrote:
particulary Xi for flûte,
http://james-ingram-act-two.de/stockhausen/Xi/sxia1l.html
I just noticed the parts in IPA (phonetic alphabet).
[y] [ø] [œ]
First time I see those on a score. Interesting.
Also, how a composer would do when he need to build his own
--- On Sun, 11/14/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Subject: Re: [PD] Musical notation object on Pd
To: patko colet.patr...@free.fr
Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
Date: Sunday, November 14, 2010, 8:54 PM
particulary Xi for flûte,
http://james-ingram-act-two.de/stockhausen/Xi/sxia1l.html
I just noticed the parts in IPA (phonetic alphabet).
[y] [ø] [œ]
First time I see those on a score. Interesting.
not that new, has been around since the 60s. for the few composers that
work with that and
Right. And, for the sake of argument, let's assume that we can
precisely reproduce the sonic/cultural setting you were referring to
in your Beethoven analogy, and we hear the staccato in that setting.
What's the relevance of that experience for a performer who wants to
interpret that staccato
Just remembered these anecdotical pieces
http://megalego.free.fr/pd/scoregame/
it's old and ugly, but you might get fun, and it's topic related.
no need for externals,
works better on vanilla, the pd-extended interface isn't able to handle this as
fluid as vanilla
--
Patrice Colet
The INScore project is also cross-platform (Linux, MacOS, Windows).
Controlled using OSC, build over the Guido Engine, it extends the music
score to arbitrary graphic objets and gives a temporal dimension to all
of them. It provides graphic synchronization between the components,
in that case, I'll have little interest in your solution.
Hey, I'm making an abstraction, which you can modify to make it work the
way you want, and I promise to accept your version in GridFlow (though
perhaps under a different name). What's wrong with that ?
nothing, it's quite nice. I'm
we can have a few examples in here:
http://james-ingram-act-two.de/stockhausen/stockhausenScores.html
ah, didn't know he had these examples, weren't there last time I visited
this site.
particulary Xi for flûte,
http://james-ingram-act-two.de/stockhausen/Xi/sxia1l.html
he use exactly the
we can have a few examples in here:
http://james-ingram-act-two.de/stockhausen/stockhausenScores.html
particulary Xi for flûte,
http://james-ingram-act-two.de/stockhausen/Xi/sxia1l.html
he use exactly the same notation shown in your preview picture, thank you for
showing it.
Those are
: Wed, 10 November, 2010 11:55:17
Subject: Re: [PD] Musical notation object on Pd
we can have a few examples in here:
http://james-ingram-act-two.de/stockhausen/stockhausenScores.html
ah, didn't know he had these examples, weren't there last time I visited
this site.
particulary Xi for flûte
--- On Wed, 11/10/10, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote:
From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] Musical notation object on Pd
To: patko colet.patr...@free.fr
Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Date: Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 12:55 PM
we can have a few examples
Absolutely, he can't (and that can be a good thing). How do
you know how a
staccato in a Beethoven piano sonata really sounds?
Do you mean how a staccato in a Beethoven sonata
sounded to an audience member listening to the composer himself play
it? Because I don't at all understand what it
--- On Wed, 11/10/10, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote:
From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] Musical notation object on Pd
To: patko colet.patr...@free.fr, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Date: Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 11:52 PM
Also you might be interested by this:
http://strasheela.sourceforge.net/strasheela/examples/Output/05-MicrotonalChordProgression-ex9.preview.png
we see microtones indicated by signs upside the note, not in the
armature, neither on the ladder,
this is clean, easier to read than microtonal
If i'm not mistaken, in PWGL and OpenMusic the user can choose if he or
she
wants to display all the notes as sharps (dièse) or flats (bémol) and
then
change each note to its enharmonic pair if wanted. What I supouse would
be
the best choice is to have a kind of message that you send to the
Hi all,
I'm a bit late to join this discussion...
This is just to mention some open source projects of interest regarding the
music notation topic. First the GUIDO project
(http://guidolib.sourceforge.net/) that already includes a Pd external and next
the INScore project
Can we have a view of one of these pieces written with modern notation?
just to have a clue about what we are saying in here.
I've played several pieces where composers like K. H. Stockhausen used their own
notation, not based on a standard, in fact there is no standard for microtonal
music
I had an idea for the mouse dragging that I don't know how hard is to
implement.
How about making the object behave like the number atom, that is, if the
user click and drag, the notes will go up and down chromatically (or in
the
scale choosen) and if the user shift+click+drag the notes would
About the key signature (armadure), if the user choose, for instance, the
key of G major (with the f-sharp) and click+drag the mouse it will get only
the seven notes from the G major scale? if thats the case I really think
that one important option should be the chromatic scale and in that case
About the scale, do you have problems with midi note? I believe this
would be the most compatible with other functions.
Well, normally I use midi note numbers or a transposed version thereof
(especially : midi note minus a multiple of 12), but in this case, I have
only implemented «white keys»,
On 6 Nov 2010, at 18:16, Jaime Oliver wrote:
Hi all,
I once made a draft of an object to convertpitch/duration pairs to lilypond.
At this stage, you get a score.txt, the contents of which you have to copy to
a lilypond document (.ly) and typeset the score. It doesn't do any of the
2010/11/8 João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
About the scale, do you have problems with midi note? I believe this
would be the most compatible with other functions.
Well, normally I use midi note numbers or a transposed version thereof
(especially : midi note minus a multiple of 12), but in
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Well, normally I use midi note numbers or a transposed version thereof
(especially : midi note minus a multiple of 12), but in this case, I
have only implemented «white keys»,
Oupse, to be clear, I mean that I numbered them
0=Do 1=Ré 2=Mi 3=Fa
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010, jancs...@yahoo.com wrote:
You could have a method that sets accidental type. Zero for flats, 1
for sharps.
Yeah, but I think it should be a manner that can be expanded to future
support for armatures of any kind. (Are there scores that use accidental
flats and
On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, João Pais wrote:
don't forget that chromatic pitches is just a small fraction of what's
available.
Don't forget that I have little interest in microtonal. Don't forget that
this is an abstraction, and you can either modify it to support microtonal
and I accept, or you
On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Caio Barros wrote:
- wich note I want in wich way. suggestion: [accidental 1 0 1 0 0
meaning c-sharp, e-flat, f-sharp, a-flat and b-flat. What would be
extremely nice is if the user could change those options after the note
is displayed, dynamically.
But this does not
Not all, if you follow the fourth cycle you don't have a B bécarre but a C flat
- Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca a écrit :
On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Caio Barros wrote:
- wich note I want in wich way. suggestion: [accidental 1 0 1 0 0
meaning c-sharp, e-flat, f-sharp, a-flat and
Hello, we dont put accidental alterations to armature, we usually put it before
a note, and eventually in parentheses.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt%C3%A9ration_%28solf%C3%A8ge%29
- Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca a écrit :
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010, jancs...@yahoo.com wrote:
You
don't forget that chromatic pitches is just a small fraction of what's
available.
Don't forget that I have little interest in microtonal. Don't forget that
this is an abstraction, and you can either modify it to support
microtonal
and I accept, or you modify it and I refuse the changes and
The armature could be set by telling which scale is played from C major
0 then is no alteration, let says we follow the fifth cycle, then 1 would be
one sharp, and then G major, 2 two sharps and then D major, etc,
when we arrive after F sharp we come to bémols, so 7 would be like -6 the D
bémol
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010, patko wrote:
Hello, we dont put accidental alterations to armature, we usually put it
before a note, and eventually in parentheses.
Hello, I'm talking about which armature should be considered implied when
trying to display a note. E.g. suppose I have an [armature] object
- Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca a écrit :
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010, patko wrote:
Hello, we dont put accidental alterations to armature, we usually
put it
before a note, and eventually in parentheses.
Hello, I'm talking about which armature should be considered implied
when
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010, João Pais wrote:
in that case, I'll have little interest in your solution.
Hey, I'm making an abstraction, which you can modify to make it work the
way you want, and I promise to accept your version in GridFlow (though
perhaps under a different name). What's wrong with
I don't know if you already see this website:
http://music.columbia.edu/~alessi/
http://music.columbia.edu/%7Ealessi/ it
has an e-mail but is very outdated...
that mail bounced. it's current employer has his name on a list, but no
mail contact.
I still think you could do all the CAC
I'm not a programmer and don't want to disencourage you, but I don't know if
you're really picking the
right surface/tools for this. would it make sense to unite forces around an
other project?
Well...that might have been an option, but the first concert is already
organised, in less than
that looks a nice beginning (I can't try it now). But I would say that in
order to make a complete object, it should be possible to
- render complex musical structures (including microtonal pitches,
dynamics, articulations, rhythms, polyphony ...)
- get instructions from pd and/or from other
pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Sun, 7 November, 2010 10:37:49
Subject: Re: [PD] Musical notation object on Pd
I'm not a programmer and don't want to disencourage you, but I don't know if
you're really picking the
right surface/tools for this. would it make sense to unite forces around an
other project
That's a really neat and clever little object
that musicians will immediately love.
a.
On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 23:50:37 -0400 (EDT)
Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
On Thu, 4 Nov 2010, Caio Barros wrote:
Hello guys. I've been dreaming about an object that would display
musical
Since there are already some projects going through in this area (e.g. pwgl
or
inscore), wouldn't it
make sense to try to integrate with these, or try to help them, instead of
reinventing the wheel?
Perhaps, but consider this:
The performer I am working with is a percussionist, and
- Caio Barros caio.bar...@gmail.com a écrit :
About the scale, do you have problems with midi note? I believe this
would be the most compatible with other functions.
2010/11/7 Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Hi, I just made a slider for a musical note on a stave, but I haven't
I know about non-techsavy classical players, I wrote the click tracker for
them - http://puredata.info/Members/jmmmp/click-tracker.
of course you shouldn't send any cryptical commands to anyone who isn't
interested in getting them. But for example packaging inscore into the
same folder as
Yep, you're probably right. I hate this project already, since it's given me a
summer of frustration while I attempt to look after a 1-year old child while
trying to get my head around segmented counts and automatically adjusted beams.
The latter is solved, the former is in an emacs window next
that makes sense, now it's not the time to stop. maybe for the next piece
(or not) :)
I only tried the windows version, but inscore should work for all
plattforms, I think (or I'm misunderstanding something).
Yep, you're probably right. I hate this project already, since it's
given me a
Ed that's really madness! but it does look great, I'd be curious to see the
patch.
M
Yes, it's madness to try this through dynamic patching, but I'm getting
pretty
far (see screenshot)
--
Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD
Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher
Ongoing
patko:
We usually set scale by transposing to the fifth (the major scale seven
half tones upper) for adding a sharp,
and to the fourth (the major scale five half-tones upper) for adding a
flat
Now I'm confused. What does Mathieu meant by scale? I tought it was just
what number corresponds
I just tryed INScore and it looks fantastic, although I don't know yet
if it
can send information to Pd, how it handles microtonal information, etc.
The
problem I see is having that separate window to display the results.
Right
now I'm convinced that the ideal would be to have a display
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010, Caio Barros wrote:
This looks just awesome! Unfortunately I'm not at home this week and I
don't have linux down here. Is there a way to use SVN under windows?
Getting SVN to run under windows might be the easiest step. After that you
have to compile the library. The
On 7 Nov 2010, at 10:23, João Pais wrote:
As I said, this project seemed to me to be nice, and it's also at an advanced
stage. http://sourceforge.net/projects/inscore/
Indeed! Wow, inscore (Interlude Score) seems to be another incredible project
from GRAME. Thanks for the link. Very
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010, Caio Barros wrote:
About the scale, do you have problems with midi note? I believe this
would be the most compatible with other functions.
Well, normally I use midi note numbers or a transposed version thereof
(especially : midi note minus a multiple of 12), but in this
On Nov 7, 2010, at 11:49 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010, Caio Barros wrote:
About the scale, do you have problems with midi note? I believe this would be
the most compatible with other functions.
Well, normally I use midi note numbers or a transposed version
: Caio Barros caio.bar...@gmail.com
To: PD list pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Thu, 4 November, 2010 16:03:50
Subject: [PD] Musical notation object on Pd
Hello guys.
I've been dreaming about an object that would display musical notation and
output data (like midi numbers for instance).
I found a discutions
Did you try Fomus?
http://fomus.sourceforge.net/
it's supposed to be used with Pd too.
Fomus is very functional to transpose numerical data flow into musical notation.
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I'm not a programmer and don't want to disencourage you, but I don't know
if you're really picking the right surface/tools for this. would it make
sense to unite forces around an other project?
Another one! I'm working on a full system of music notation display for
GEM if
that's any help.
2010/11/6 Aykut Caglayan aykut_cagla...@yahoo.com:
Did you try Fomus?
http://fomus.sourceforge.net/
it's supposed to be used with Pd too.
Fomus is very functional to transpose numerical data flow into musical
notation.
FOMUS would be the simplest way, I guess. Just write a temporary text
On Sat, 6 Nov 2010, João Pais wrote:
I'm not a programmer and don't want to disencourage you, but I don't know if
you're really picking the right surface/tools for this. would it make sense
to unite forces around an other project?
[gf/gl] offers a different model for producing geos for GEM.
Hi all,
I once made a draft of an object to convertpitch/duration pairs to lilypond.
At this stage, you get a score.txt, the contents of which you have to copy
to a lilypond document (.ly) and typeset the score. It doesn't do any of the
fancy drawing in the patch.
It is an unfinished object for
I correct myself, (haven't looked at this for a while) you get a
score.lydirectly, which you open with lilypond and typeset.
best,
J
2010/11/6 Jaime Oliver jaime.oliv...@gmail.com
Hi all,
I once made a draft of an object to convertpitch/duration pairs to
lilypond. At this stage, you get a
2010/11/5 João Pais
do you have his contact? for some reason, brasilian universities don't have
the contact of their teachers on their pages.
I don't know if you already see this website:
http://music.columbia.edu/~alessi/ http://music.columbia.edu/%7Ealessi/ it
has an e-mail but is very
On Thu, 4 Nov 2010, Caio Barros wrote:
Hello guys. I've been dreaming about an object that would display
musical notation and output data (like midi numbers for instance).
Hi, I just made a slider for a musical note on a stave, but I haven't
decided what to do with the scales. Look at this :
This looks just awesome! Unfortunately I'm not at home this week and I don't
have linux down here. Is there a way to use SVN under windows?
About the scale, do you have problems with midi note? I believe this would
be the most compatible with other functions.
2010/11/7 Mathieu Bouchard
João: what you are saing sounds good, but in that discussion I could
hardly
see how that object works.
No, you have to follow the links, install it and try it out. That's how I
got to see it. Then you'll see in some examples (if they all work) how
complex it can be.
For now is used for
do you have his contact? for some reason, brasilian universities don't
have the contact of their teachers on their pages.
http://maringa.academia.edu/MarcusAlessiBittencourt
Marcus Bittencourt did some work in this direction:
http://www.rem.ufpr.br/_REM/REMv11/13/13-bittencourt-puredata.html
Oi Caio,
someone posted a new object in development in the pd-dev list last month.
This can be quite good, and if I remember correctly, it allows musicxml,
and works on all platforms -
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2010-10/016136.html.
I guess anyone with the knowledge can
Marcus Bittencourt did some work in this direction:
http://www.rem.ufpr.br/_REM/REMv11/13/13-bittencourt-puredata.html
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This is an interesting topic... but just to give you another
direction/point of view, as I'm not sure exactly what your final aim is.
You can hook up any jack-aware program that does notation to Pd via midi
(for e.g. Rosegarden or even MuseScore) this, can be both ways (Pd could
send midi data
João: what you are saing sounds good, but in that discussion I could hardly
see how that object works.
Bernardo: That looks awesome and is almost in the same direction I had in
mind (I was definetly thinking in CAC programms) too bad article doesn't
have a download link, I wonder if that program
Oh yes, and another thing is that I want eventualy to use microtonal
intervals too. I believe that using those programs as a midi interface
doesn't work for that, am I right?
2010/11/5 Caio Barros caio.bar...@gmail.com
João: what you are saing sounds good, but in that discussion I could hardly
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