Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
Le 14 juin 2010 à 12:53, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit : On Sun, 13 Jun 2010, Loic KESSOUS wrote: I did a few contributions, but not as much as I should have done :) I (and two other Montréalais) convinced some other French people to not touch pdpedia and just move on to something worth the time. Here are some links to some elaborate mails about it on the pdmtl list : http://lists.artengine.ca/pipermail/pdmtl/2010-April/001647.html http://lists.artengine.ca/pipermail/pdmtl/2010-April/001648.html http://lists.artengine.ca/pipermail/pdmtl/2010-April/001649.html http://lists.artengine.ca/pipermail/pdmtl/2010-April/001653.html pdpedia is for me the closest thing to an object reference documentation. you need to revise your criteria for what constitutes an object reference documentation and/or what is the meaning of closest thing. well, I meant, compared to FLOSS or the free online book Programming electronic music in Pd. Help patches as wrote like PDDP template are the same in fact. pdpedia need to be updated, some stuff is missing, so much stuff is missing that you may as well say that the whole pdpedia is missing. that's true _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010, Loic KESSOUS wrote: Le 14 juin 2010 à 12:53, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit : you need to revise your criteria for what constitutes an object reference documentation and/or what is the meaning of closest thing. well, I meant, compared to FLOSS or the free online book Programming electronic music in Pd. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with stating that the pd help patches themselves are the object reference documentation. You don't need to put it in any other format to make it an object reference documentation. Help patches as wrote like PDDP template are the same in fact. est-ce que tu pourrais me récrire ça en français svp ? parce qu'il me semble que ça serait plus clair de même. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On Jun 14, 2010, at 6:53 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sun, 13 Jun 2010, Loic KESSOUS wrote: I did a few contributions, but not as much as I should have done :) I (and two other Montréalais) convinced some other French people to not touch pdpedia and just move on to something worth the time. Here are some links to some elaborate mails about it on the pdmtl list : http://lists.artengine.ca/pipermail/pdmtl/2010-April/001647.html http://lists.artengine.ca/pipermail/pdmtl/2010-April/001648.html http://lists.artengine.ca/pipermail/pdmtl/2010-April/001649.html http://lists.artengine.ca/pipermail/pdmtl/2010-April/001653.html So where is that thing that is better than pdpedia that you guys all worked on instead? .hc pdpedia is for me the closest thing to an object reference documentation. you need to revise your criteria for what constitutes an object reference documentation and/or what is the meaning of closest thing. pdpedia need to be updated, some stuff is missing, so much stuff is missing that you may as well say that the whole pdpedia is missing. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone. --Bjarne Stroustrup (creator of C++) ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
pdpedia is for me the closest thing to an object reference documentation. But it's like one searchable file, like was (is? ) for example the max reference manual pdf. pdpedia need to be updated, some stuff is missing, I did a few contributions, but not as much as I should have done :) . I wonder how it could be possible to generate a reference manual from it, could it be possible ? Loïc Le 10 juin 2010 à 03:11, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : ha! well said indeed! So that's what happened... Hans says years later. .hc On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:21 AM, Derek Holzer wrote: I have to say that 90% of the work I've contributed to Pd and the FLOSS Manual has been motivated by a frustration with the current state of affairs. That's how free-software projects trick you into pouring your life away into them ;-) D. On 6/7/10 11:55 AM, João Pais wrote: further than that, there's this list, and also the pd chat. If you're a professional, your help and insight could be very useful for the pd community, in case you want/can get involved. with this kind of projects, if you don't like something, *you* can make it better to reach your standards. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 21: Be less critical ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
pdpedia is definitely searchable, just like wikipedia. I search it often. I think some of the pdpedia content has fed to the FLOSS Manuals Pure Data book, if not other things. .hc On Jun 13, 2010, at 3:04 PM, Loic KESSOUS wrote: pdpedia is for me the closest thing to an object reference documentation. But it's like one searchable file, like was (is? ) for example the max reference manual pdf. pdpedia need to be updated, some stuff is missing, I did a few contributions, but not as much as I should have done :) . I wonder how it could be possible to generate a reference manual from it, could it be possible ? Loïc Le 10 juin 2010 à 03:11, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : ha! well said indeed! So that's what happened... Hans says years later. .hc On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:21 AM, Derek Holzer wrote: I have to say that 90% of the work I've contributed to Pd and the FLOSS Manual has been motivated by a frustration with the current state of affairs. That's how free-software projects trick you into pouring your life away into them ;-) D. On 6/7/10 11:55 AM, João Pais wrote: further than that, there's this list, and also the pd chat. If you're a professional, your help and insight could be very useful for the pd community, in case you want/can get involved. with this kind of projects, if you don't like something, *you* can make it better to reach your standards. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 21: Be less critical ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
Le 13 juin 2010 à 21:20, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : pdpedia is definitely searchable, just like wikipedia. yes, of course. but you need to be connected to the internet, you can't just have the one file ( or several) on your computer, except if you download a copy of the whole site on your computer. I search it often. I think some of the pdpedia content has fed to the FLOSS Manuals Pure Data book, if not other things. yep, and you can make the pdf from it, which is searchable too. loic .hc On Jun 13, 2010, at 3:04 PM, Loic KESSOUS wrote: pdpedia is for me the closest thing to an object reference documentation. But it's like one searchable file, like was (is? ) for example the max reference manual pdf. pdpedia need to be updated, some stuff is missing, I did a few contributions, but not as much as I should have done :) . I wonder how it could be possible to generate a reference manual from it, could it be possible ? Loïc Le 10 juin 2010 à 03:11, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : ha! well said indeed! So that's what happened... Hans says years later. .hc On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:21 AM, Derek Holzer wrote: I have to say that 90% of the work I've contributed to Pd and the FLOSS Manual has been motivated by a frustration with the current state of affairs. That's how free-software projects trick you into pouring your life away into them ;-) D. On 6/7/10 11:55 AM, João Pais wrote: further than that, there's this list, and also the pd chat. If you're a professional, your help and insight could be very useful for the pd community, in case you want/can get involved. with this kind of projects, if you don't like something, *you* can make it better to reach your standards. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 21: Be less critical ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
ha! well said indeed! So that's what happened... Hans says years later. .hc On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:21 AM, Derek Holzer wrote: I have to say that 90% of the work I've contributed to Pd and the FLOSS Manual has been motivated by a frustration with the current state of affairs. That's how free-software projects trick you into pouring your life away into them ;-) D. On 6/7/10 11:55 AM, João Pais wrote: further than that, there's this list, and also the pd chat. If you're a professional, your help and insight could be very useful for the pd community, in case you want/can get involved. with this kind of projects, if you don't like something, *you* can make it better to reach your standards. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 21: Be less critical ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
Am 08.06.2010 um 05:04 schrieb Funs Seelen: To give you a second opinion: Kreidler's work is brilliant to me. It's a book which has been printed (german) as well as put on the web (both german and an english translation). small correction: actually it's the other way round, the printed book is not in german but in english. In the web you'll find html versions in english and german plus a download in spanish. m. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
As far as it concerns standards for documentation and especially coding, have a look at the pd-dev list. If you have experience with writing you can propose solutions there I guess. Also there have been threads about good documentation within this pd-list. I remember a discussion about help-files within pd lately. On the net it's free to write your own documentation so that's why there are several sources with several opinions and solutions, but personally I'm glad something like flossmanuals exists. And about the arrays, let's bring that discussion back to the other thread you posted called [PD] Question About Arrays to keep at least this pd-list-documentation clear. Funs ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Jim Aikin wrote: On 6/6/2010 8:42 PM, Funs Seelen wrote: Typing pure data object list in google leads you straight to the flossmanual, which contains useful documentation about pd (and other Free-Licensed-Open-Source-Software), including object-lists. For not all existing libraries are in pd-extended probably not all existing objects will show up on the list. Which objects you're able to use depends on the version you installed and which external libraries you've loaded. Thanks for the tip. However, the array object (which I doubt is in one of the extended libraries) is not shown in the flossmanual list of objects. Nor do the items in the list on that site link to any sort of documentation of the objects that _are_ listed. Create an account on FlossManuals and update the list of objects. Don't worry, someone will check your changes in case you get anything wrong. It can't take more then 10-15 mins and the problem is fixed. There is a page on arrays, graphs, and tables. But it doesn't mention the idea of clipping the values within an array, which I have now been reminded is done by processing the input value using a moses. That's easy enough to do ... the point is, it's not documented anywhere on the array page, and the dialog box for the Canvas Properties is needlessly confusing, because it implies that the user can do something that is not in fact possible. Feel free to update this page as well. If you find a bug or missing information in a help patch, file a bug report here: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=55736atid=478070 I love free, open-source software. What I don't love, not even a little tiny bit, is the _documentation_ for free, open-source software. I agree completely. However, it takes quite a lot of concerted effort to build a good help system. After the initial learning curve, the existing setup has been *good enough* over the years but work is going on to update and address these issues. Check out Jonathan's work in this area. Once again, we need your help to do this. Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 08:05:23PM -0700, Jim Aikin wrote: Now that I have real-time MIDI working, I'm eager to start putting together the patch I need. But ... where is the documentation that lists the available objects? Once I know what object I want, I can create it and then right-click on it to open an information window for that type of object. But where's the complete list of objects? Right-click (or click whatever you click to get the little menu) on a patch's background and select Help. This opens doc/5.reference/help-intro.pd which in Pd vanilla lists all vanilla builtin objects, clickable for further help. Listing all available objects including externals and abstractions is a bit tricky as this list is changing all the time. For example it should also include all the *.pd files in your current working directory which changes everytime you save a new pd file there. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
being the one who wrote that object list in floss, I can say that a complete list doesn't exist - objects get added each day to svn, and there's no submission comitee or any process that checks for the quality of the documentation (or even the quality of the object). if you're using pd-vanilla, all the objects will be in the pd-help patch (click help on an empty canvas). if you're using pd-extended, the only way to know is to search your extra and/or 5.reference folders (note: not all developers submit help patches for their objects!). probably you should be well served with the vanilla midi objects, but if you do a text-search in the 5.reference folder for midi, you should get a good narrow down of midi-related objects (and all other objects that have the word midi in their help patches...). further than that, there's this list, and also the pd chat. If you're a professional, your help and insight could be very useful for the pd community, in case you want/can get involved. with this kind of projects, if you don't like something, *you* can make it better to reach your standards. João Pais Now that I have real-time MIDI working, I'm eager to start putting together the patch I need. But ... where is the documentation that lists the available objects? Once I know what object I want, I can create it and then right-click on it to open an information window for that type of object. But where's the complete list of objects? --Jim Aikin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Jim Aikin wrote: But then, I'm a professional writer. I have standards for how documentation ought to be written. Then congratulations, you may start to work on the manual. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010, Funs Seelen wrote: As far as it concerns standards for documentation and especially coding, have a look at the pd-dev list. It's not essential to have pd-dev. It's basically a tiny list flooded by sourceforge notices. Comparatively very little stuff gets discussed on pd-dev nowadays. I wouldn't try discussing documentation on it. Actually I unsubscribed from pd-dev long ago and don't plan to resubscribe. Also there have been threads about good documentation within this pd-list. afair, documentation has traditionally been a pd-list topic, not a pd-dev topic. I remember a discussion about help-files within pd lately. On the net it's free to write your own documentation so that's why there are several sources with several opinions and solutions, Outside of the net you're also free to write your own documentation for anything. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
How exactly would one start to work on the Pd Manual? More specifically: What is the process by which a new, professionally written manual replaces the old, error-ridden manual? -Jonathan From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca To: Jim Aikin midigur...@sbcglobal.net Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 1:35:46 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation? On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Jim Aikin wrote: But then, I'm a professional writer. I have standards for how documentation ought to be written. Then congratulations, you may start to work on the manual. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On 6/7/2010 2:55 AM, João Pais wrote: further than that, there's this list, and also the pd chat. If you're a professional, your help and insight could be very useful for the pd community, in case you want/can get involved. with this kind of projects, if you don't like something, *you* can make it better to reach your standards. I'd love to be able to help -- and honestly, I'm not trying to criticize anyone who has put time into documenting Pd! I'm just finding that it's difficult to find the information I need, in part because the documentation is scattered. At the moment, working on Pd documentation is about the 4th item down in my list of documentation projects. Or maybe 5th. I've done an entire free manual on another freeware programming system (which has nothing to do with music), and it's going to need a serious update in about a month, when the new version is released. I have a paying project writing and editing a manual, which I have to finish up. And so forth. So ... maybe I'll have time to get to Pd this year, but no guarantees. --JA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On 6/7/2010 1:13 AM, mark hadman wrote: On a blank canvas, Right Click - Help gets you a list of all vanilla objects. (This works on pure:dyne's version of pd, anyway...) Fantastic. Thanks! That will help a lot. --JA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On 6/7/2010 11:36 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: How exactly would one start to work on the Pd Manual? More specifically: What is the process by which a new, professionally written manual replaces the old, error-ridden manual? Replaces is perhaps not quite the right word. Last year I wrote and released The Inform 7 Handbook (nothing to do with music -- you can find it on my website at www.musicwords.net/if/i7hb.htm, if you're curious), because I felt the existing documentation for Inform 7 was inadequate. My work didn't replace the manual. It simply offered a coherent, all-in-one-place introduction to the basics. I've gotten very good feedback on it from users. I think that would probably be the way to go with Pd documentation as well -- some sort of handbook that gives users step-by-step instructions on all of the basic things they will need or want to do when getting started. Once they're up and running, they will be able to find more advanced information wherever it's tucked away. If someone wants to write this, you could probably talk me into giving it an edit. As a relative newbie to Pd, I would be a good test case, and as an experienced tech writer I would be able to make suggestions. --JA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
Get involved in the FLOSS Manual? D. On 6/7/10 8:36 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: How exactly would one start to work on the Pd Manual? More specifically: What is the process by which a new, professionally written manual replaces the old, error-ridden manual? -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 109: Lost in useless territory ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On Jun 7, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Jim Aikin wrote: I think that would probably be the way to go with Pd documentation as well -- some sort of handbook that gives users step-by-step instructions on all of the basic things they will need or want to do when getting started. Once they're up and running, they will be able to find more advanced information wherever it's tucked away. You mean like Johannes Kreidler's Programming Electronic Music in Pd? Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On 6/7/2010 2:00 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote: On Jun 7, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Jim Aikin wrote: I think that would probably be the way to go with Pd documentation as well -- some sort of handbook that gives users step-by-step instructions on all of the basic things they will need or want to do when getting started. Once they're up and running, they will be able to find more advanced information wherever it's tucked away. You mean like Johannes Kreidler's Programming Electronic Music in Pd http://www.pd-tutorial.com/? Could be. I'll have a look at it -- thanks for the link. In general, however, I would suggest that a website-based multi-page manual is always a bad idea, for two reasons: First, because it's not searchable. Second, because it's an invitation to the author to jumble things up and leave some pages blank to be filled in later. This is not a criticism of Kreidler's work, which I haven't read, it's just a general observation based on other things I've seen. What one wants, I think, is a single PDF file that, in the absence of an index, can be searched for text strings, and that is conceived and written in a linear, coherent manner. --JA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
This is the exact goal of the FLOSS Manual. The site allows a PDF to be generated from the current status of the manual. I've been encouraging people not to reply solely on the images and patches, but to describe things in text as well in order to ensure its searchability. One caveat, however, is that FLOSS documentation tends to follow the FLOSS software model of multi-authorship. Therefore, things get filled in as people have the drive to do so. The professional, single-author model seems just as uncommon in the docs as it does in the software itself, so be careful what kind of standards you apply. Or you could go out and pay for something professional... ;-) D. On 6/7/10 11:20 PM, Jim Aikin wrote: What one wants, I think, is a single PDF file that, in the absence of an index, can be searched for text strings, and that is conceived and written in a linear, coherent manner. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 46: Disconnect from desire ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
I'm talking about Miller's Pd Manual, which resides on the user's harddrive, shows up in the ctrl-b browser, and is listed first when you go to puredata.info and click documentation and manuals. And I suppose error-ridden is not right-- out of date is more appropriate. So is the FLOSS manual eventually going to replace Miller's manual on pd-ext? If not, there is a need for work to be done on both the FLOSS manual and the current Pd manual that ships with pd-extended, unless you're going to start the FLOSS manual by telling people not to read Miller's manual. -Jonathan From: Derek Holzer de...@umatic.nl To: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 12:53:42 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation? Get involved in the FLOSS Manual? D. On 6/7/10 8:36 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: How exactly would one start to work on the Pd Manual? More specifically: What is the process by which a new, professionally written manual replaces the old, error-ridden manual? -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 109: Lost in useless territory ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
Could be. I'll have a look at it -- thanks for the link. In general, however, I would suggest that a website-based multi-page manual is always a bad idea, for two reasons: First, because it's not searchable. Second, because it's an invitation to the author to jumble things up and leave some pages blank to be filled in later. This is not a criticism of Kreidler's work, which I haven't read, it's just a general observation based on other things I've seen. To give you a second opinion: Kreidler's work is brilliant to me. It's a book which has been printed (german) as well as put on the web (both german and an english translation). I started reading the flossmanual but soon discovered Loadbang what the book is called. It helped me a lot. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
Typing pure data object list in google leads you straight to the flossmanual, which contains useful documentation about pd (and other Free-Licensed-Open-Source-Software), including object-lists. For not all existing libraries are in pd-extended probably not all existing objects will show up on the list. Which objects you're able to use depends on the version you installed and which external libraries you've loaded. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Where is the object reference documentation?
On 6/6/2010 8:42 PM, Funs Seelen wrote: Typing pure data object list in google leads you straight to the flossmanual, which contains useful documentation about pd (and other Free-Licensed-Open-Source-Software), including object-lists. For not all existing libraries are in pd-extended probably not all existing objects will show up on the list. Which objects you're able to use depends on the version you installed and which external libraries you've loaded. Thanks for the tip. However, the array object (which I doubt is in one of the extended libraries) is not shown in the flossmanual list of objects. Nor do the items in the list on that site link to any sort of documentation of the objects that _are_ listed. There is a page on arrays, graphs, and tables. But it doesn't mention the idea of clipping the values within an array, which I have now been reminded is done by processing the input value using a moses. That's easy enough to do ... the point is, it's not documented anywhere on the array page, and the dialog box for the Canvas Properties is needlessly confusing, because it implies that the user can do something that is not in fact possible. I love free, open-source software. What I don't love, not even a little tiny bit, is the _documentation_ for free, open-source software. But then, I'm a professional writer. I have standards for how documentation ought to be written. What scares me is the possibility that the standards for the coding may not be any higher than the standards for the documentation. I seem today, for instance, to have stumbled on a serious bug in the Csound midiin opcode. That sort of thing seems to go with the territory. (Not that commercial software is free of bugs, or always has good manuals!) --JA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
