Watch it, Tim.
He's dangerous with a slikkepott...
Jostein
- Original Message -
From: Tim Øsleby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: PESO - Messy, a Snap or a Keeper?
Yeah. I did. See you in Tombstone at dawn.
Words
Here is another warm up.
Kom igjen kompis, la oss fotografere mens lyset er bra.
Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds
(Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy)
-Original Message-
From: Cotty
Out walking with the long lens this morning. I came across a flock of
wild turkeys. I was just a little downhill from them and was trying
not to spook them. I got a bunch of shots - all through a few weeds.
When I watched this pair move along I couldn't help but think about
the Velociraptors
On 14/11/05, Tim Øsleby, discombobulated, unleashed:
Here is another warm up.
Kom igjen kompis, la oss fotografere mens lyset er bra.
You ain't takin no damn pitchers of my lysets or bras.
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|
The SMCP A70-210/4 Macro is excellent, although I found the lens a
bit heavy/bulky for my uses. I have no experience with the Takumar
alternative.
Same here, except for the heavy/bulky part -g.
I have heard/read that the Takumar, which is not SMC, suffers a bit from
flare and is a bit
Hello Rick,
Your story helps this picture. I suspect I would like the fence focus
as you do more than the other way around. Without the story, the
picture is much harder for me to relate to. I guess with a fence like
that it would come across as the subject (perhaps).
I seem to be rambling -
Nice try Cotty, almost meant something.
It translates:
Com'on mate, lets take some pictures while the light is still good ;-)
(Remember, we are meeting at dawn, and remember, I'm mostly harmless)
Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large
On 14/11/05, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:
I know. What's humorous is that you recognized where the true
interaction is taking place. Of course with that crop it would appear
to be a photo of two men and one woman.
Crop the pic and let us be the judge ;-)
Cheers,
Cotty
On Nov 14, 2005, at 10:06 AM, Cotty wrote:
You sure you weren't getting smaller...? ;-))
Sadly, the trend has always been in the other direction.
Godfrey
I'v never been able to do a very good Raw convertion on BBPro.
I think its more suited to the Canon formats, is it not.?
Dave
That's what ALL catalog thumbnail programs do, as far as I'm aware.
Even BreezeBrowser, which is capable of doing RAW conversion, just
shows you the preview JPEGs
On Nov 14, 2005, at 10:54 AM, Fred wrote:
The SMCP A70-210/4 Macro is excellent, although I found the lens a
bit heavy/bulky for my uses. I have no experience with the Takumar
alternative.
Same here, except for the heavy/bulky part -g.
lol ... Yes, I'm pretty sensitive to weight and bulk in
I can't say. BB does not produce a Mac OS X compatible version so I
haven't used it.
I use Photoshop + Camera Raw for everything anyway, after trying all
the available Mac OS X RAW converters I just like what I get from it
more with Canon 10D, KM A2, and Pentax DS RAW files. (I just
On 11/14/05, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
couple of questions. does not hiring union help mean the BMG is
anti-union?
I think so. Don't you? If not, what other interpretation would you
give their position?
does the group follow this practice in the other venues in
which they
Funny question, isn't it?
Some may want results quickly, others may not. Why don't you ask the
customers?
IMO digital workflow is not really faster - well that depends on how much
after processing/editing is necessary.
Some times I want to go back to film - it was so much easier. I spend hours
and
At 11:37 AM -0600 11/14/05, Mark Stringer wrote:
I have used the original FA 28-105 power zoom. It is one of my
favorites and I still use it frequently with my istD. I've even had
it repaired by Pentax a couple of times and still works great. As a
used lens it might be cheaper but it is
At 11:37 AM -0600 11/14/05, Mark
Stringer
wrote:
I have used the original FA 28-105 power zoom. It is one of my
favorites and I still use it frequently with my istD. I've even had
it repaired by Pentax a couple of times and still works great. As a
On Nov 14, 2005, at 11:37, Mark Stringer wrote:
I have used the original FA 28-105 power zoom. It is one of my
favorites and I still use it frequently with my istD. I've even
had it repaired by Pentax a couple of times and still works great.
As a used lens it might be cheaper but it is
I just use BBPro to rotate any vertical shots, then use the html tool to make
the web
page.
Does a decent job that way.
Once i get used toPSCS on the ibook and get a little more used to the Mac
ways, i'll
probably just use
the web gallery again. It does a decent job.
Dave
I do all the rotating, annotating, etc, in CS2's Bridge application.
I often use iView to produce simple web pages and galleries, but
Photoshop's web generation tools are equally facile.
G
On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:31 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I just use BBPro to rotate any vertical shots,
I'm sure they are all Pintos.
Nah, I think you've lost your Focus.
If you've lost your Focus then you'll need an Escort
Without your Escort, you'll be on your own, an Explorer.
Kenneth Waller
- Original Message -
From: Butch Black [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: PESO - Autumn or
Boris, a plesant image, photographically well done, but not particularily
memorable, for me.
Perhaps it holds special meaning for you.
Kenneth Waller
- Original Message -
From: Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: PESO - Norwegian skies
Hi!
On 14/11/05, Tim Øsleby, discombobulated, unleashed:
Nice try Cotty, almost meant something.
It translates:
Com'on mate, lets take some pictures while the light is still good ;-)
(Remember, we are meeting at dawn, and remember, I'm mostly harmless)
You got it dude.
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
Yes, I'm sure the blond person is a woman. I saw her face when they
turned to walk away. The purse and pink shirt are good clues as well.
But yes, there are some masculine things going on there. That's
diversity for you. The fact that she was willing to stop to sign this
guy's position
On 14/11/05, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:
Yes, I'm sure the blond person is a woman. I saw her face when they
turned to walk away. The purse and pink shirt are good clues as well.
You can tell Paul's not from California ;-)
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People,
no, not funny at all. i don't have any customers now, but i can get some
sense of the current situation from comments posted here. although they
all reflect different approaches to PP, enough information can be gleaned
from the responses to get ideas not only for work flow but to ask more
[Original Message]
From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Date: 11/14/2005 11:42:34 AM
Subject: Re: PESO - A Couple of Guys on the Town
On 11/14/05, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
couple of questions. does not hiring union help mean the BMG is
Quite interesting, Tim.
I would crop the bottom part out - right under DIMPLES. Then you'll have
an interesting shot of the facades, mirror-effects - quite compatible with
the sign that says Brilleland (which means something like Spectacle
World).
Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
it's been suggested more than once that birds are descendents of the
dinosaurs.
the image is fair to middlin' but i like it regardless. it's not easy to
photograph these birds, although it seems that the California residents are
getting a bit complacent compared to the birds in other area.
Shel
Delicious, Bruce.
Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Kenneth Waller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 7. november 2005 02:02
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: Re: PESO - Lingering
The flower top part of the stem are a good capture. The rest I could
This doesn't appeal to me much. But then again - I never win competitions. I
don't do art stuff. I often don't care for the winners. So, perhaps this is
exactly what this is :-)
Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Shel Belinkoff [mailto:[EMAIL
Nice food - crappy lighting (sorry).
I have noticed that food is mosty photographed backlit in very soft light.
You might give it try some day :-)
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: David Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 8. november 2005 23:20
Til:
No, I'm not from California, but I used to spend a couple of months in
LA every year, and I spent a summer working in SF as well. I know that
purses and pink shirts are all the rage in West Hollywood g. But when
you see a pink shirt and a purse in Michigan, odds are heavily in favor
of the
On 14/11/05, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:
But when
you see a pink shirt and a purse in Michigan, odds are heavily in favor
of the wearer being of the female persuasion bg.
Can't argue with that!!
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|
You probably think they move like velociraptors because Steven Spielberg
made his dinosaurs move like birds. Although there seems to be good evidence
that the birds are descended from a branch of the dinosaurs, don't let
Hollywood fool you into thinking that you know what they were actually like!
Wow, its finally here! Went down to the fire station to get a picture
of something cavernous that would show the fov of the lens a little
better. Here is the first pic:
http://www.g0nz.com/images/widefiretrucks.jpg
Examined in raw, and while it exhibits some CA in the high contrast
edges
Took a walk in the woods this afternoon with the *istD, the A400/5.6,
an A2X-S converter and the Sigma 500Super with Kirk flash extender. All
of it on a monopod. ISO 800, f5.6 @ 1/500th, flash set to high-speed
synch. The ducks are full frame, the lady cardinal is cropped.
Looks good. Anxious to see more. Can you shoot something off a tripod
and give us a 100% crop? When you have time of course :-).
Paul
On Nov 14, 2005, at 6:00 PM, Gonz wrote:
Wow, its finally here! Went down to the fire station to get a picture
of something cavernous that would show the fov
100% center crop of same pic. Was on a tripod, 2 sec mirror up timer:
http://www.g0nz.com/images/firetruckfullcrop.jpg
rg
Paul Stenquist wrote:
Looks good. Anxious to see more. Can you shoot something off a tripod
and give us a 100% crop? When you have time of course :-).
Paul
On Nov 14,
Your approach is a near picturing not moving as possible, me think. The
trolleys are behind bars the light is kind of moody, and so on.
One thing working against the not moving is the head lights at one of the
trolleys. How about cloning them away?
That said. The picture does not tell the store
Both the same photo Paul. But I found the Cardinal :-):
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3879099
I like the one of the ducks.
Dave
On 11/15/05, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Took a walk in the woods this afternoon with the *istD, the A400/5.6,
an A2X-S converter and the
- Original Message -
From: Gonz
Subject: Re: DA 12-24, first impressions
100% center crop of same pic. Was on a tripod, 2 sec mirror up timer:
http://www.g0nz.com/images/firetruckfullcrop.jpg
Gonzo, if yer still shooting film from time to time, I would be interested
to know how
On 14 Nov 2005 at 17:17, Gonz wrote:
100% center crop of same pic. Was on a tripod, 2 sec mirror up timer:
http://www.g0nz.com/images/firetruckfullcrop.jpg
Good stuff, you couldn't make a similar 1:1 crop in the areas of the bumper of
the far left truck?
Also what's the chances of seeing
mallards ... one of my favorite ducks. good snap!
Shel
You meet the nicest people with a Pentax
[Original Message]
From: Paul Stenquist
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3879093size=lg
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3879093size=lg
On 14 Nov 2005 at 12:36, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
I do all the rotating, annotating, etc, in CS2's Bridge application.
I often use iView to produce simple web pages and galleries, but
Photoshop's web generation tools are equally facile.
Grrr, even the Canon 300D images are auto-oriented in
Rob Studdert wrote:
On 14 Nov 2005 at 17:17, Gonz wrote:
100% center crop of same pic. Was on a tripod, 2 sec mirror up timer:
http://www.g0nz.com/images/firetruckfullcrop.jpg
Good stuff, you couldn't make a similar 1:1 crop in the areas of the bumper of
the far left truck?
hey, congratulations, gonz. i hope you'll enjoy it and that it lives up to
your expectations.
Shel
You meet the nicest people with a Pentax
[Original Message]
From: Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: DA 12-24, first impressions
Wow, its finally here!
As usually from you: Very good use of DOF, beautiful colours. You have also
made most out of the light (as usually).
But: As you already probably are aware of; there is some vegetation
disturbing the impact of the birds.
Second but: The tail is cut of. I know, it was the best you could do with
On Nov 14, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Rob Studdert wrote:
On 14 Nov 2005 at 12:36, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
I do all the rotating, annotating, etc, in CS2's Bridge application.
I often use iView to produce simple web pages and galleries, but
Photoshop's web generation tools are equally facile.
Grrr,
Funny, just today I was out on a walk with the DA14. :-)
On Nov 14, 2005, at 3:00 PM, Gonz wrote:
Wow, its finally here! Went down to the fire station to get a
picture of something cavernous that would show the fov of the lens
a little better. Here is the first pic:
- Original Message -
From: Rob Studdert
Subject: Re: Request for help or advise. The critical mass is achieved...
Grrr, even the Canon 300D images are auto-oriented in the Pentax Photo
Browser,
I wonder if Pentax will actually put an orientation sensor in the next
cameras,
or
Forgot to say. Funny photo.
Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds
(Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy)
-Original Message-
From: Tim Øsleby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15. november 2005
On 14 Nov 2005 at 18:03, Gonz wrote:
Thanks, I'll do some crops from the 4 corners, altho a couple of the
corners are kinda dark.
Thanks that would be great.
I like using larger focal lengths. More pics, but easier stitching.
Stitching should be no more difficult if using a WA lens so
Oops! The two URLs should be:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3879093size=lg
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3879099size=lg
Paul
And thanks for the comment and the heads-up, David.
On Nov 14, 2005, at 6:34 PM, David Savage wrote:
Both the same photo Paul. But I found
On 14 Nov 2005 at 16:30, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
On Nov 14, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Rob Studdert wrote:
On 14 Nov 2005 at 12:36, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
I do all the rotating, annotating, etc, in CS2's Bridge application.
I often use iView to produce simple web pages and galleries, but
It looks good. Can you crop a bit from near the edge? Sorry to be a
pain, but to the pilgrims go the indians g. (That's a dumb and
ethnically insensitive American saying:-).
On Nov 14, 2005, at 6:17 PM, Gonz wrote:
100% center crop of same pic. Was on a tripod, 2 sec mirror up timer:
Thanks Shel. They are pretty birds. I find the hens most interesting.
(Note straight-man setup for Cotty :-).This is probably a nesting area,
so it's interesting to see how well the female blends into the
landscape.
Paul
On Nov 14, 2005, at 6:53 PM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
mallards ... one of
Howdy, folks,
Well, I've had my *ist D and 16-45/4 for about a month now. I've shot
a few messing around shots and two auto racing events, almost 1,000
frames so far. I have to say I'm really liking it. The only quibble I
have with the camera is the interference of the strap with the access
Many thanks for the kind comments Frank, Paul, and Christian. I'm
having a blast with the *ist D now. I think the MZ-S will be up for
sale soon. :-)
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:12:49 -0500, Christian wrote:
Some excellent shots there. That Aston Martin is an awesome
looking race car!
It was
Bertha now has a Berlebach 2042 to keep her steady. With the center
column extended, the Berlebach is supposed to reach to 64.5 inches
(sorry, metric folks, but it's been a long day and I am too tired to
convert). Yet when I set it up and extend the column, it comes to at
least 71-72 inches.
On Nov 14, 2005, at 6:08 PM, Rob Studdert wrote:
Really doesn't matter to me at all. 10D photos auto-orient too, but
they're often wrong. If I set an orientation in review mode on the
DS, they orient correctly in every file viewer application I've seen.
Well for those of us who don't
Thou shalt not extend the center column? Bob S.
On 11/14/05, Joseph Tainter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bertha now has a Berlebach 2042 to keep her steady. With the center
column extended, the Berlebach is supposed to reach to 64.5 inches
(sorry, metric folks, but it's been a long day and I am
I asked George to stop in at Ulan Bator and see if he could get any Pentax
news for us. He said he'd try.
Tom C.
On Nov 14, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Tom C wrote:
I asked George to stop in at Ulan Bator and see if he could get any
Pentax news for us. He said he'd try.
Did he say whether he'd be allowed to leave? I keep hoping...
Godfrey
On Nov 14, 2005, at 5:07 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3879093size=lg
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3879099size=lg
A bit of CA on the cardinal shot.
Hmm. But they're just birds...
LOL. ]'-)
Godfrey
:-)
Tom C.
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT: President in Mongolia
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:27:51 -0800
On Nov 14, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Tom C wrote:
I asked George to stop in at Ulan Bator and see if he
hi Paul quite a number of years ago i got two mallard ducklings to
keep around the house for pets and to keep the garden clear of snails and
slugs. i named them dunker and bugsy, dunker because he really loved
thrashing about in the little pond i built for them, and bugsy because she
ate the
[Original Message]
From: Jens Bladt
This doesn't appeal to me much.
.. i'd be surprised if it did. we have very different tastes.
But then again - I never win competitions.
. what's that got to do with the photo and your comments?
I don't do art stuff. I often don't care for
Thumbs+ builds the thumbnails from the RAW file if you configure it so. it
is significantly slower when doing that.
Herb
- Original Message -
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Request for help
What you're seeing is fringing due to the high contrast against the
white sky. It's common with long lenses on digital cameras. I
neutralized some of it, but left the least offensive bits.
Paul
On Nov 14, 2005, at 9:30 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
On Nov 14, 2005, at 5:07 PM, Paul Stenquist
only if you configure it so. otherwise, it does the conversion from the
embedded JPEG by default.
Herb
- Original Message -
From: Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Request for help or advise. The
Hi luben,
It was useful indeed. I had been toying with the idea of getting the
Flektogon for a period of time... but then I later went with the Bessa
L + 21/4 Color-Skopar combination.
Great picture of the wrinkled waves, btw.
YW
On 11/14/05, luben karavelov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
Hi!
Gonzo, if yer still shooting film from time to time, I would be
interested to know how the coverage is at various focal lengths and
apertures.
I'd second that question.
Boris
- Original Message -
From: Boris Liberman
Subject: Re: DA 12-24, first impressions
Hi!
Gonzo, if yer still shooting film from time to time, I would be
interested to know how the coverage is at various focal lengths and
apertures.
I'd second that question.
The motion is
Hi!
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3876098
It's been a while since my last post, but I think this one qualifies as
a funny snap ...
too bad I didn't took it :( , well at least it was my camera.
Funny snap it is... Pity the RHS finger is somewhat overexposed.
Boris
Hi!
Dave Young is one of Canada's best jazz bass players. Last spring he
was playing a Saturday afternoon gig at The Pilot bar here in Toronto.
Lighting was really dim, and I didn't have a flash (and wouldn't have
wanted to use one). I shot HP5+ at 1600, and even then the exposures
were
Inches used to be taller in the days of wood tripods?
The end of your tape measure is broken off?
You are so tired you are slumping, and the tripod seems taller than it is?
They made a mistake in the product description?
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
Idiot Proof == Expert Proof
That is a rather modern looking firetruck in the foreground. Lens looks
good on the screen. How does it look on a big print?
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
Idiot Proof == Expert Proof
---
Gonz wrote:
Wow, its finally here! Went down to the fire
On Nov 15, 2005, at 12:36 AM, Jostein wrote:
I guess we have to call him Mike two sheds Wilson from now on.
- Dave
Um...
Does the ferry qualify as a water-shed?
:-)
I fear my reference was a little too obscure...
http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/arthurtw.htm
- Dave
- Original Message -
From: graywolf
Subject: Re: Accessorizing Bertha
Inches used to be taller in the days of wood tripods?
The end of your tape measure is broken off?
You are so tired you are slumping, and the tripod seems taller than it is?
They made a mistake in the product
I think that folks will have to learn to accept good enough in their
digital work. It is like writing, you can work it over and over and over
forever. You have to learn when to stop and say good enough. For
instance is a photo like this good enough for eBay (maybe 5 minutes
total time in
- Original Message -
From: graywolf
Subject: Re: Portrait Photography Question ...
I think that folks will have to learn to accept good enough in their
digital work. It is like writing, you can work it over and over and over
forever. You have to learn when to stop and say good
crap1( P ) Pronunciation Key (krp) Vulgar Slang
n.
1. Excrement.
2. An act of defecating.
3. Foolish, deceitful, or boastful language.
4. Cheap or shoddy material.
5. Miscellaneous or disorganized items; clutter.
6. Insolent talk or behavior.
intr.v. crapped, crap·ping, craps
To
Actually the exposure was off by about 2 stops, fixed it in camera raw.
I will have to put the diggy on manual and use the Sekonic Studio meter
next time.
I did use a light tent and a couple of clamp lights for this. It works a
lot better than my previous attemps with window light without the
WARNING WARNING WARNING!!
__
Not for the bandwidth impaired
http://www.g0nz.com/images/fullimg.jpg
Full size 100% crop img using 12-24.
Caveats:
It was too big so I had to compress to a somewhat lower quality jpg than
I wanted.
It has CA touchup + a little
Addendum:
Of course one of the points Bill makes with his rather sarcastic reply
is that doing it right in the camera saves a lot of time in Photoshop.
Another point, is that while my attempts needed some PS'ing, I did know
why they needed PS'ing. Folks who only know how to use their camera
On 15 Nov 2005 at 0:29, Gonz wrote:
WARNING WARNING WARNING!!
__
Not for the bandwidth impaired
http://www.g0nz.com/images/fullimg.jpg
Full size 100% crop img using 12-24.
Caveats:
It was too big so I had to compress to a somewhat lower quality jpg
Op Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:28:05 +0100 schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
snip
Only complain is on the istD. When the lens is at its full 28 or 105
ends, it hunts for focus. Move it off
just a hair, and its fine.
My 35-70 F2.8 Nikkor does the same thing at the 70 end. Move it of a tad
and its fine
High price, Takumar Kogaku lens 1.9/83mm for Asahiflex:
*1.325,00 USD ** * (1.128,62 EUR)
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=7561059083rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AITrd=1
On 14/11/05, Joseph Tainter, discombobulated, unleashed:
Bertha now has a Berlebach 2042 to keep her steady. With the center
column extended, the Berlebach is supposed to reach to 64.5 inches
(sorry, metric folks, but it's been a long day and I am too tired to
convert). Yet when I set it up
On 15/11/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed:
(ie. polite society)
You mean this list? Surely shome mistake ;-)
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_
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