question for electronics geeks
C'mon folks, it's really very simple. The self-loudness ratings that
consumer electronics give themselves have NO ASSOCIATION WITH ANYTHING
REAL! I mean, really, why are you kidding yourselves? The circuit does
something, the volume knob turns through
From: Igor Roshchin
Rick Womer wrote:
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement
over my 38-year-old Pioneer.
What puzzles me is the volume control: Minimum volume is -90dB (mute),
and maximum is +15dB.
Huh?
What is zero dB? Is it an arbitrary point? Is it
: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
snip
Even going to concerts doesn't guarantee hearing real, live music.
Cheers,
frank
What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. --
Christopher Hitchens
--- Original Message ---
From: Doug Franklin do...@nutdriver.org
Sent: February
JC OCONNELL hifis...@gate.net wrote:
Hey there, Dont misquote me, I didnt state that, someone else did.
Oops. Sorry about that.
Ralf
--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Rick Womer wrote:
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement
over my 38-year-old Pioneer.
What puzzles me is the volume control: Minimum volume is -90dB (mute),
and maximum is +15dB.
Huh?
What is zero dB? Is it an arbitrary point? Is it linked to some
On Feb 3, 2012, at 9:55 AM, Igor Roshchin wrote:
What is zero dB? Is it an arbitrary point? Is it linked to some
undisclosed property of the unit?
Typically, 0 dB represents 1 mW (milliWatt).
The formula for power is L_dB= 10 log_10 * (P1 / P0), where P0=1 mW
So, -90 dB - +15 dB
From s...@trantor.komkon.org Fri Feb 3 12:55:53 2012
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 12:55:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org
To: PDML@pdml.net
Subject: OT question for electronics geeks
Rick Womer wrote:
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement
Subject: OT question for electronics geeks
Rick Womer wrote:
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement
over my 38-year-old Pioneer.
What puzzles me is the volume control: Minimum volume is -90dB (mute),
and maximum is +15dB.
Huh?
What is zero dB
0 db is not an output. It is the amount of attenuation (resistance)
that the volume knob puts in the electron path. It is equivalent to
full volume and means nothing else -- it has no reference to what
that maximum output might be.
Therefore ...
The more powerful the amplifier the greater the
on 2012-02-03 12:10 Collin Brendemuehl wrote
0 db is not an output. It is the amount of attenuation (resistance)
that the volume knob puts in the electron path. It is equivalent to
full volume and means nothing else -- it has no reference to what
that maximum output might be.
sounds great
on 2012-02-03 12:10 Collin Brendemuehl wrote
0 db is not an output. It is the amount of attenuation (resistance)
that the volume knob puts in the electron path. It is equivalent to
full volume and means nothing else -- it has no reference to what
that maximum output might be.
.
sounds great
This discussion is very interesting.
My guess is the numbers don't really correspond to any particular
value. The designer probably thought the fairly technical numbers
gave the front panel a feeling of technicality.
Kind of like deciding to make the volume knob go from 1-11 rather than
1-10.
George Sinos wrote:
This discussion is very interesting.
My guess is the numbers don't really correspond to any particular
value. The designer probably thought the fairly technical numbers
gave the front panel a feeling of technicality.
This has to be the case: Unless your input is a fixed
on 2012-02-03 13:35 George Sinos wrote
This discussion is very interesting.
My guess is the numbers don't really correspond to any particular
value. The designer probably thought the fairly technical numbers
gave the front panel a feeling of technicality.
my Yamaha RX-1100 (same brand as
steve harley wrote:
on 2012-02-03 13:35 George Sinos wrote
This discussion is very interesting.
My guess is the numbers don't really correspond to any particular
value. The designer probably thought the fairly technical numbers
gave the front panel a feeling of technicality.
my Yamaha
---
From: Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com
Sent: February 3, 2012 2/3/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
steve harley wrote:
on 2012-02-03 13:35 George Sinos wrote
This discussion is very interesting.
My guess is the numbers don't
knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
It's all bull do-do isn't it?
Well yes, that's the short version. :)
--
Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia
www.robertstech.com
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the
knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
My Creek CAS 4040 has no numbers. Ya turns the volume knob clockwise and the
volume goes up. When it reaches an acceptable level ya stops turning. Too
loud? Ya turns the knob the other way.
By the way, that Creek 4040 is a *superb* integrated amp. Far better
be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. --
Christopher Hitchens
--- Original Message ---
From: Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com
Sent: February 3, 2012 2/3/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote
On 2/3/2012 2:07 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
It's all bull do-do isn't it?
As George said earlier, it's to make it look more technical; I'm sure the
numbers on the faceplate bear little relation to any real output, ratios, volts, watts,
or anything else.
My Creek CAS 4040 has no
[sighs heavily]
The NAD 3020 was one of the greats. My wife uses my old one
downstairs to drive some PSBs plugged into her computer. There's a
bit of a scratch in the volume control these days, but otherwise
perfect. -T
On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
, 2012 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
It's all bull do-do isn't it?
As George said earlier, it's to make it look more technical; I'm sure the
numbers on the faceplate bear little relation to any real output, ratios,
volts, watts, or anything else.
My Creek CAS 4040 has
on 2012-02-03 15:07 knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote
We don't need no stinking numbers.
i use the numbers so that i can put the control to a good spot before i
actually play the music; it's true, though, that i don't really care what they
mean; only venturing to guess what they mean because it
on 2012-02-03 14:49 Mark Roberts wrote
steve harley wrote:
so Yamaha apparently has a tradition of indicating volume in dB;
They aren't really indicating volume in dB, they are, as you noted,
showing the amount of *attenuation* between pre-amp and power amp in
dB. Very different thing.
hmmm
On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 04:16:53PM -0700, steve harley wrote:
on 2012-02-03 14:49 Mark Roberts wrote
steve harley wrote:
so Yamaha apparently has a tradition of indicating volume in dB;
They aren't really indicating volume in dB, they are, as you noted,
showing the amount of *attenuation*
JC OCONNELL hifis...@gate.net wrote:
Typically, 0 dB represents 1 mW (milliWatt).
This is only the case with dBm where 0 dBm is indeed 1 mW across 600
Ohm, corresponding to a voltage of 0.775 V.
dB with nothing behind expresses any kind of logarithmic ratio.
Amplification, attenuation,
John Francis wrote:
I'm pretty sure the meters on my tape decks, etc. all had a 0
setting around 3/4 of the way along. On the old mechanical ones
the area behind the needle past that point was painted red; on the
later electronic ones that was where the colour of the indicator
lights changed
...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
Ralf R. Radermacher
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 7:06 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
JC OCONNELL hifis...@gate.net wrote:
Typically, 0 dB represents 1 mW (milliWatt).
This is only the case with dBm where 0 dBm is indeed 1
be the system that I
die with.
:-)
cheers,
frank
What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. --
Christopher Hitchens
--- Original Message ---
From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
Sent: February 3, 2012 2/3/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT question
Recording too high a level. Hiss I could tolerate, distortion, not so
much.
-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
Mark Roberts
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 7:28 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
on 2012-02-03 17:06 Ralf R. Radermacher wrote
Faders in studio equipment, e.g. mixing consoles, are usually labelled
from minus infinity through 0 dB (the normal open position) to +15 dB.
I suppose the manufacturer of the amplifier has put these dB values
around the volume knob to make it look
On 2012-02-03 15:35, George Sinos wrote:
Most of these people said they wanted their music to sound good.
The them, as long as it thumped real loud, it sounded good.
Lots of those people haven't heard, and don't listen to, actual music. :-)
--
Doug Lefty Franklin
NutDriver Racing
On 2012-02-03 16:37, steve harley wrote:
on 2012-02-03 13:35 George Sinos wrote
This discussion is very interesting.
My guess is the numbers don't really correspond to any particular
value. The designer probably thought the fairly technical numbers
gave the front panel a feeling of
it?
cheers,
frank
What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. --
Christopher Hitchens
--- Original Message ---
From: Doug Franklin do...@nutdriver.org
Sent: February 3, 2012 2/3/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
proof can be dismissed without proof. --
Christopher Hitchens
--- Original Message ---
From: Doug Franklin do...@nutdriver.org
Sent: February 3, 2012 2/3/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
C'mon folks, it's really very simple
. --
Christopher Hitchens
--- Original Message ---
From: Doug Franklin do...@nutdriver.org
Sent: February 3, 2012 2/3/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
Lots of those people haven't heard, and don't listen to, actual music. :-)
--
Doug
On 2012-02-03 23:06, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
It was all marketing, wasn't it?
Was?
--
Doug Lefty Franklin
NutDriver Racing
http://NutDriver.org
Facebook NutDriver Racing
Sponsored by Murphy
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
On 2012-02-03 23:23, Tim Bray wrote:
Since we're descending into a morass of audio geekdom:
http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2010/03/04/Record-Player (with
a decent picture, too). -T
You obviously don't have cats. :-)
--
Doug Lefty Franklin
NutDriver Racing
http://NutDriver.org
Facebook
On 2012-02-03 23:25, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
Much pop music is so over-produced that it can't possibly be reproduced in a
live setting without manipulations and pre-recorded loops, etc.
Even going to concerts doesn't guarantee hearing real, live music.
That's exactly what I mean, and
be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. --
Christopher Hitchens
--- Original Message ---
From: Doug Franklin do...@nutdriver.org
Sent: February 3, 2012 2/3/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
C'mon folks, it's
On Feb 4, 2012, at 8:20 AM, steve harley wrote:
on 2012-02-03 12:10 Collin Brendemuehl wrote
0 db is not an output. It is the amount of attenuation (resistance)
that the volume knob puts in the electron path. It is equivalent to
full volume and means nothing else -- it has no reference to
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement over my
38-year-old Pioneer.
What puzzles me is the volume control: Minimum volume is -90dB (mute), and
maximum is +15dB.
Huh?
What is zero dB? Is it an arbitrary point? Is it linked to some undisclosed
property of the
If I'm not mistaken, the 0 db point is the maximum rated output power.
But that's a big if.
-- Walt
On 2/2/2012 5:41 PM, Rick Womer wrote:
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement over my
38-year-old Pioneer.
What puzzles me is the volume control: Minimum
Kind of hard for that to be the case when the dial goes to +15.
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Walt Gilbert ldott...@gmail.com wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the 0 db point is the maximum rated output power.
But that's a big if.
-- Walt
On 2/2/2012 5:41 PM, Rick Womer wrote:
I have this
On 2/2/2012 3:41 PM, Rick Womer wrote:
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement over my
38-year-old Pioneer.
What puzzles me is the volume control: Minimum volume is -90dB (mute), and
maximum is +15dB.
Huh?
What is zero dB? Is it an arbitrary point? Is it
I'm pretty sure they don't rate receivers and amplifiers at absolute
maximum output. Beyond 0 db there's considerable degradation in the
signal-to-noise ratio, so they rate them at some point below that.
On 2/2/2012 5:47 PM, David Parsons wrote:
Kind of hard for that to be the case when the
Rick Womer wrote:
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement over my
38-year-old Pioneer.
What puzzles me is the volume control: Minimum volume is -90dB (mute), and
maximum is +15dB.
Huh?
What is zero dB? Is it an arbitrary point? Is it linked to some
: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
dB is a logarithmic scale of ratios. 10 deciBell is one Bell, or a factor of
10. 3dB is a factor of two, or a stop. So if you have your
From: Rick Womer
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement over my
38-year-old Pioneer.
What puzzles me is the volume control: ?Minimum volume is -90dB (mute), and
maximum is +15dB.
Huh?
What is zero dB? ?Is it an arbitrary point? ?Is it linked to some
@pdml.net
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
Rick Womer wrote:
I have this nifty new receiver, which sounds great--a huge improvement over my
38-year-old Pioneer.
What puzzles me is the volume control: Minimum volume is -90dB (mute
-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT question for electronics geeks
Thanks, all. I suspect that Walt may have the answer, that 0dB is the point at
which further power brings an increase in noise or distortion.
Rick
http://photo.net/photos/RickW
- Original Message -
From: Mark
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