Since it does not seem to be generally realized quantum foam is the
current version of the unified field theory (any one remember ether?). I
recently read a SF where the starship was powered by tapping the charge
gradient of the quantum foam. Hence the battery comment. No, I do not
think the
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of graywolf
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 5:37 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: It is ingenious! Was: Does this mean what I think it
means?
Lets back up a bit here. You have a sensor
I think the actual sensors do have the 14-16 bits you mention - which
literally means that the max charge is up to some 65000 electrons.
However, they also have a readout noise of at least 10 electrons,
which
is equivalent to 3 or 4 bits. This essentially means that you are left
with a
Antti-Pekka Virjonen wrote:
I think the actual sensors do have the 14-16 bits you mention - [ ... ]
Hi,
Yes, actually I was talking about usable bits, taking the noise into
account, thus giving 14-16bits of usable data.
This is so at least with the good quality astronomical ccd
So you are saying a 22 bit ADC is overkill. Wonder if Pentax knows that?
The marketing people probably don't know, or care; they only know they
can quote a higher number than the competitors.
The engineers probably deliberately chose to have extra bits, so as to
avoid problems with
Toralf,
I think you got it all just right and I believe we were both
talking about the same thing in the first place :-). Sometimes
it just takes a lot of writing when trying to describe not so easy
things.
I have to admit I wasn't looking too deep into the DSLR ccd data
sheets when trying to
Thanks, Toralf, I have skimmed that and bookmarked to read more closely.
Getting a bit of an Ah-Ha from that skim, apparently folks are talking
about electrons and holes as if they are the same thing. They definately
are not. A hole is a space that can accept an electron, and if we are
talking
On 19/09/06, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks, Toralf, I have skimmed that and bookmarked to read more closely.
Getting a bit of an Ah-Ha from that skim, apparently folks are talking
about electrons and holes as if they are the same thing. They definately
are not. A hole is a space
From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For those of you who insist that quantum mechanics apply at the real
world level, please send me a quart of quantum foam, I want to use it as
a battery. Reading too much SF lately grin.
That would be a couple of bottles of Bud. Battery acid by any name
Quoting Digital Image Studio [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On 19/09/06, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks, Toralf, I have skimmed that and bookmarked to read more closely.
Getting a bit of an Ah-Ha from that skim, apparently folks are talking
about electrons and holes as if they are the same
Oh, lets make it more interesting. A hole is actually a molecule with
one or more missing electrons, hence holes, that can be picked up,
usually from an adjacent molecule. That explains all those moving holes
I had so much trouble understanding back when transistors came out. And
to finish off
You are missing the fact that the holes in this case is not in
molecules but in crystals having energy gaps corresponding to certain
energy levels, so they can move around a bit and get excited by both
phonons (e.g, thermal) and photons. Now, lets all jump into
reciprocal space to look at
At 01:12 AM 19/09/2006, mike wilson wrote:
From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For those of you who insist that quantum mechanics apply at the real
world level, please send me a quart of quantum foam, I want to use it as
a battery. Reading too much SF lately grin.
That would be a couple
On 17/09/06, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So you are saying a 22 bit ADC is overkill. Wonder if Pentax knows that?
BTW, Rob's explanation was clearer, but still not documented for my
curiosity.
A theoretically perfect 22 bit ADC should be able to resolve 4,194,304
voltage levels between
Still trying to turn things around. The sensor is simply a photocell.
The brighter the light hitting it the higher the voltage output.
Visualize analog as curves, digital as steps. Don't get them crossed in
your mind if you want to understand what is going on. All the talk about
sensors like
On Sat, Sep 16, 2006 at 02:47:56PM -0400, graywolf wrote:
Still trying to turn things around. The sensor is simply a photocell.
The brighter the light hitting it the higher the voltage output.
Visualize analog as curves, digital as steps. Don't get them crossed in
your mind if you want to
Can you provide a reference on that? A quick goggle search* finds
nothing the contradicts my explanation. Your comment may be accurate on
the quantum level but I do not think we can quite apply it to current
image sensors, but would be interested in seeing something about where
you are getting
On 17/09/06, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can you provide a reference on that? A quick goggle search* finds
nothing the contradicts my explanation. Your comment may be accurate on
the quantum level but I do not think we can quite apply it to current
image sensors, but would be interested
On Sat, Sep 16, 2006 at 05:45:09PM -0400, graywolf wrote:
Can you provide a reference on that? A quick goggle search* finds
nothing the contradicts my explanation. Your comment may be accurate on
the quantum level but I do not think we can quite apply it to current
image sensors, but would
So you are saying a 22 bit ADC is overkill. Wonder if Pentax knows that?
BTW, Rob's explanation was clearer, but still not documented for my
curiosity.
--
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
Idiot Proof == Expert Proof
---
Hi,
but the camera has to choose the exposure time for the shot and
therefore everything is fixed after the exposure. Setting an ISO in
a digital camera is just another word for under- or overexposure. So
I think what you discribe is just not possible - but a nice imagination!
Best regards,
Hi,
Wanted to add:
Maybe the raw files contain the 22 bit data. If so, you can set the ISO
to anything you wish in the post prosessing (and as many times as you
wish).
May guess is this:
The signal is converted into 22 bits without a variable gain stage (like
you say). The ISO
-Original Message-
It's been mentioned about two point six zillion times by now that you
probably don't, though. The sensor itself doesn't have a lot more than
12-bits worth of latitude, so producing more bits in the A/D doesn't
help a lot.
I disagree with that a little. It's still
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Hans Imglueck
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 9:30 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: It is ingenious! Was: Does this mean what I think it
means?
Hi,
but the camera has to choose the
Lets back up a bit here. You have a sensor that has an analog out put.
You send that output to an analog to digital converter. The converter
produces an 8, or 10, or 12, or in this case 22 bit digital
representation of the analog signal. Then that digital representation is
processed digitally.
It's been mentioned about two point six zillion times by now that you
probably don't, though. The sensor itself doesn't have a lot more than
12-bits worth of latitude, so producing more bits in the A/D doesn't
help a lot.
I disagree with that a little. It's still the same sensor
graywolf wrote on Fri, 15 Sep 2006 07:39:11 -0700
Lets back up a bit here. You have a sensor that has an analog out put.
You send that output to an analog to digital converter. The converter
produces an 8, or 10, or 12, or in this case 22 bit digital
representation of the analog signal. Then
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