Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
I'm sure you are going to just love the new system responsiveness and that great screen, Stan. But I have one comment on your SSD choice: I think you made the wrong decision there ... On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info wrote: So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. By not booting from and running the OS from an internal SSD you are missing out on one of the most important performance boosts you would have otherwise received. The only reason I'm still using my 2007-era iMac is because I swapped the internal HDD for an SSD device. I have only the OS and my home folder (including Lightroom catalogue) on it; all my other data is external on Firewire and USB drives. The difference between a main drive being HDD vs SSD is simply put: _astounding_. None of the other system aspects represent a big enough bottleneck to me to worry about an upgrade. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
You may be right Bruce - we'll see... stan On Dec 24, 2013, at 10:44 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: I'm sure you are going to just love the new system responsiveness and that great screen, Stan. But I have one comment on your SSD choice: I think you made the wrong decision there ... On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info wrote: So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. By not booting from and running the OS from an internal SSD you are missing out on one of the most important performance boosts you would have otherwise received. The only reason I'm still using my 2007-era iMac is because I swapped the internal HDD for an SSD device. I have only the OS and my home folder (including Lightroom catalogue) on it; all my other data is external on Firewire and USB drives. The difference between a main drive being HDD vs SSD is simply put: _astounding_. None of the other system aspects represent a big enough bottleneck to me to worry about an upgrade. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
On Dec 23, 2013, at 6:52 PM, steve harley wrote: just a couple of comments... on 2013-12-23 11:55 Stan Halpin wrote The one that most appealed to me was the Mac Thunderbolt 27 display. As a display it is said to be a good one (YMMV), plus it can serve as a hub for external drives etc. However, it hasn't been updated in 15-18 months; the I/O ports in the hub are Thunderbolt (1), FW800 (1) and USB2.0 (3). But the Thunderbolt is used for the input from a laptop, Mini, or Pro,[...] that's not quite right; there is a built-in Thunderbolt cable to connect to computer, plus another Thunderbolt port for daisy chaining additional Thunderbolt devices; You are correct of course, Steve. On my first and second looks I missed the fact that the T'Bolt display has a built-in cable for attaching to the computer (plus the power connection for a laptop if used that way). stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
On Dec 23, 2013, at 7:34 PM, steve harley wrote: on 2013-12-23 15:19 Larry Colen wrote On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 05:14:05PM -0500, Stan Halpin wrote: I do intend to move to a Thunderbolt-connected enclosure for the SSD if/when I can find one. Still looking... If you find one, please let us know. I was looking for t-bolt enclosures and they all seem to be subject to the apple tax. cheapest way to get a Thunderbolt drive is not an actual enclosure, but an adapter from Seagate which happens to provide a bare SATA connector: http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Portable-Thunderbolt-Adapter-STAE128/dp/B009HQCARY you'll see from the reviews that people are using it with SSDs; i have not seen a benchmark, nor do i know whether it supports SATA-3 speeds I found that, also this version: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/925740-REG/seagate_stae129_backup_plus_portable_drive.html I passed on this, at least for now, because they both are sold as supporting Seagate drives, not as general purpose enclosures and that made me wonder about compatibility. One Amazon reviewer talks about using the 128 model with an SSD, supplemented with a half-pack of 3M Post-it notes as a shim. Also some comments there about heating issues under constant use. I may go there if my need for speed is not satisfied with my planned setup. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
on 2013-12-24 8:44 Bruce Walker wrote By not booting from and running the OS from an internal SSD you are missing out on one of the most important performance boosts you would have otherwise received. i assumed Stan would be booting from his external SSD; current SATA-3 SSDs in USB 3 enclosures might not match the Apple internals (which use PCIe and can exceed SATA-3), but i doubt the difference will often be noticeable also, Stan's iMac has a an empty PCIe storage slot, so he can actually add a cheaper and faster one later (after the warranty expires, and if he feels up to messing with the adhesive) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 3:26 PM, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote: on 2013-12-24 8:44 Bruce Walker wrote By not booting from and running the OS from an internal SSD you are missing out on one of the most important performance boosts you would have otherwise received. i assumed Stan would be booting from his external SSD; current SATA-3 SSDs in USB 3 enclosures might not match the Apple internals (which use PCIe and can exceed SATA-3), but i doubt the difference will often be noticeable also, Stan's iMac has a an empty PCIe storage slot, so he can actually add a cheaper and faster one later (after the warranty expires, and if he feels up to messing with the adhesive) Well, hell, if Stan's iMac can boot off external USB drives then he'll be in great shape. Since older Macs can only boot from Firewire I assumed that newer ones would have a similar restriction like only booting from Thunderbolt. There's usually some sort of issue with supported equipment. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
on 2013-12-24 13:51 Bruce Walker wrote Well, hell, if Stan's iMac can boot off external USB drives then he'll be in great shape. Since older Macs can only boot from Firewire I assumed that newer ones would have a similar restriction like only booting from Thunderbolt. There's usually some sort of issue with supported equipment. i think all the Intel-based Macs can boot from USB; what has changed is that USB-3 makes it fast enough that it's worthwhile for full time use -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
Several weeks ago I asked for and received suggestions concerning my planned computer upgrade. I've made a decision, orders have been placed, I should have my new gear by this time next week. Current system is a late 2006 20 iMac with 2Gb 667Hz memory. It works well but it is choking on the files and applications I use. Externals are limited to USB2.0 and FireWire 400, and that definitely contributes to the slowness. I had come to dread taking a card from the camera and starting the download process, knowing what a long frustrating series of time-outs was ahead of me: waiting for download, waiting for preview generation, waiting for the images to come up when scrolling through, waiting for a 1-to-1 view to be loaded in... Wish list included larger display, more memory, faster processor, and faster I/O ports. The options: 1. MacBook Pro laptop + external display 2. Mac Mini + external display 3. iMac 27 4. Mac Pro (new release) + external display The external display turned out to be my hangup. I found capable to very good monitors in the $350-$1750 price range. The one that most appealed to me was the Mac Thunderbolt 27 display. As a display it is said to be a good one (YMMV), plus it can serve as a hub for external drives etc. However, it hasn't been updated in 15-18 months; the I/O ports in the hub are Thunderbolt (1), FW800 (1) and USB2.0 (3). But the Thunderbolt is used for the input from a laptop, Mini, or Pro, so it is only the FW800 and USB2.0 that are available for external drives etc. Only a slight upgrade over my seven-year-old iMac. Each of the computers has its own I/O ports, but there are other limiting factors with each. 1. MacBook Pro. - I have a good 3-4 year old MacBook Pro, don't really need to get a new laptop per se - I had an earlier MacBook Pro that I docked for use as my desktop; switched away to my 2006 iMac for a couple of reasons including management of physical space on my desk, and don't want to go back. + Up-to-date I/O ports: 2 Thunderbolt 2 ports, 2 USB3.0 - - But not all that many ports. 2 USB3.0 on the laptop and 3 USB2.0 on the display don't leave me much to work with once I attach keyboard, printer, scanner, and CD reader. USB hubs tend to be unreliable in my experience, some items (like the keyboard) just don't work unless directly attached, and the laptop option just didn't seem very attractive. - 16 Gb memory limit 2. Mac Mini - has not been updated in 15 months or so - Only 1 Thunderbolt (and not Thunderbolt 2) port + FW800 (1) and USB3.0 (4) ports. More flexibility than with the laptop option. - 16 Gb memory limit 3. iMac + all-in-one design, no need for a separate display + Two Thunderbolt ports (albeit not Thunderbolt 2) + Both TB ports usable, no need to dedicate one to the monitor - But one T'Bolt port is needed for running my FW external drives. + USB3.0 (4) So, a slight gain over the Mini with respect to I/O.. + 32 Gb memory limit + Usable as a stand-alone Thunderbolt display if/when I change to a system that requires such a display. 4. Mac Pro + +Beautiful! + 64 Gb memory limit + More Thunderbolt 2 and USB3.0 ports than I can count - - Expensive - Almost certainly overkill for how I would use it. I held off for several weeks, thinking that the Mini and/or Thunderbolt displays might be updated when the MacPro was finally available, but that didn't happen. I decided not to worry about buying THE computer that would last me the rest of my life, but rather buy one that is good enough for what I need now and the next couple of years. So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. Thanks again to those who commented earlier - you gave me useful food for thought. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
Excellent choice Stan. I'm still happy with my used 2011 MBP 15 inch (matt screen) Unibody. I got it used in mint cond 4 months ago. 2.53 Ghz with 8GB ram, into which I installed a 250 GB SSD HD - it runs so fast and effortlessly. Definitely the best Mac I've ever had in terms of speed, build quality and general usability. I edit Sd and HD video on it regularly and it swallows everything up I can throw at it. Goes everywhere with me in a Marmot messenger bag with Lowepro deluxe padded strap. I'm a bit of portable computing geek - ever since I read a book called 'On The Road' by Michael Prochak back in the mid-1990s. ISBN 0-201-59396-1. If you want a trip down memory lane with a heady mix of Apple PowerBooks and Jack Kerouac, it's a must read! The only thing it hasn't won the Gold Star for from me is the keyboard - that accolade still rests with the best keyboard in a Mac portable that i have ever used: a PowerBook 1400 (still sitting in the attic, can't bear to part with it!) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
Good call, given the variables. Out might be my next Mac, although like you. I would consider the freshness of the technology. My iMac 27 is currently in the shop for a new hard drive. It's free -- a recall. Paul via phone On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info wrote: Several weeks ago I asked for and received suggestions concerning my planned computer upgrade. I've made a decision, orders have been placed, I should have my new gear by this time next week. Current system is a late 2006 20 iMac with 2Gb 667Hz memory. It works well but it is choking on the files and applications I use. Externals are limited to USB2.0 and FireWire 400, and that definitely contributes to the slowness. I had come to dread taking a card from the camera and starting the download process, knowing what a long frustrating series of time-outs was ahead of me: waiting for download, waiting for preview generation, waiting for the images to come up when scrolling through, waiting for a 1-to-1 view to be loaded in... Wish list included larger display, more memory, faster processor, and faster I/O ports. The options: 1. MacBook Pro laptop + external display 2. Mac Mini + external display 3. iMac 27 4. Mac Pro (new release) + external display The external display turned out to be my hangup. I found capable to very good monitors in the $350-$1750 price range. The one that most appealed to me was the Mac Thunderbolt 27 display. As a display it is said to be a good one (YMMV), plus it can serve as a hub for external drives etc. However, it hasn't been updated in 15-18 months; the I/O ports in the hub are Thunderbolt (1), FW800 (1) and USB2.0 (3). But the Thunderbolt is used for the input from a laptop, Mini, or Pro, so it is only the FW800 and USB2.0 that are available for external drives etc. Only a slight upgrade over my seven-year-old iMac. Each of the computers has its own I/O ports, but there are other limiting factors with each. 1. MacBook Pro. - I have a good 3-4 year old MacBook Pro, don't really need to get a new laptop per se - I had an earlier MacBook Pro that I docked for use as my desktop; switched away to my 2006 iMac for a couple of reasons including management of physical space on my desk, and don't want to go back. + Up-to-date I/O ports: 2 Thunderbolt 2 ports, 2 USB3.0 - - But not all that many ports. 2 USB3.0 on the laptop and 3 USB2.0 on the display don't leave me much to work with once I attach keyboard, printer, scanner, and CD reader. USB hubs tend to be unreliable in my experience, some items (like the keyboard) just don't work unless directly attached, and the laptop option just didn't seem very attractive. - 16 Gb memory limit 2. Mac Mini - has not been updated in 15 months or so - Only 1 Thunderbolt (and not Thunderbolt 2) port + FW800 (1) and USB3.0 (4) ports. More flexibility than with the laptop option. - 16 Gb memory limit 3. iMac + all-in-one design, no need for a separate display + Two Thunderbolt ports (albeit not Thunderbolt 2) + Both TB ports usable, no need to dedicate one to the monitor - But one T'Bolt port is needed for running my FW external drives. + USB3.0 (4) So, a slight gain over the Mini with respect to I/O.. + 32 Gb memory limit + Usable as a stand-alone Thunderbolt display if/when I change to a system that requires such a display. 4. Mac Pro + +Beautiful! + 64 Gb memory limit + More Thunderbolt 2 and USB3.0 ports than I can count - - Expensive - Almost certainly overkill for how I would use it. I held off for several weeks, thinking that the Mini and/or Thunderbolt displays might be updated when the MacPro was finally available, but that didn't happen. I decided not to worry about buying THE computer that would last me the rest of my life, but rather buy one that is good enough for what I need now and the next couple of years. So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. Thanks again to those who commented earlier - you gave me useful food for thought. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
Stan, Just one question/comment: Why would you have an external SSD and internal HD? While I don't have my own experience with Thunderbolt, all other interfaces (USB 3.0, eSATA, FW-400, FW-800, and even FW-3200) are inferior to SATA-3 (not counting SAS-600 which is nominally on par with SATA3) Thuderbolt is the only one that seems to be exceeding what SATA-3 can do. So, having an external SSD drive (which I would expect to be SATA-3 drive?) would fully benefit from its speed only if you are connecting it via Thunderbolt. Are you? Igor On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: I held off for several weeks, thinking that the Mini and/or Thunderbolt displays might be updated when the MacPro was finally available, but that didn't happen. I decided not to worry about buying THE computer that would last me the rest of my life, but rather buy one that is good enough for what I need now and the next couple of years. So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
“That might be my next Mac.” My phone typing skills are subpar. Paul On Dec 23, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Good call, given the variables. Out might be my next Mac, although like you. I would consider the freshness of the technology. My iMac 27 is currently in the shop for a new hard drive. It's free -- a recall. Paul via phone On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info wrote: Several weeks ago I asked for and received suggestions concerning my planned computer upgrade. I've made a decision, orders have been placed, I should have my new gear by this time next week. Current system is a late 2006 20 iMac with 2Gb 667Hz memory. It works well but it is choking on the files and applications I use. Externals are limited to USB2.0 and FireWire 400, and that definitely contributes to the slowness. I had come to dread taking a card from the camera and starting the download process, knowing what a long frustrating series of time-outs was ahead of me: waiting for download, waiting for preview generation, waiting for the images to come up when scrolling through, waiting for a 1-to-1 view to be loaded in... Wish list included larger display, more memory, faster processor, and faster I/O ports. The options: 1. MacBook Pro laptop + external display 2. Mac Mini + external display 3. iMac 27 4. Mac Pro (new release) + external display The external display turned out to be my hangup. I found capable to very good monitors in the $350-$1750 price range. The one that most appealed to me was the Mac Thunderbolt 27 display. As a display it is said to be a good one (YMMV), plus it can serve as a hub for external drives etc. However, it hasn't been updated in 15-18 months; the I/O ports in the hub are Thunderbolt (1), FW800 (1) and USB2.0 (3). But the Thunderbolt is used for the input from a laptop, Mini, or Pro, so it is only the FW800 and USB2.0 that are available for external drives etc. Only a slight upgrade over my seven-year-old iMac. Each of the computers has its own I/O ports, but there are other limiting factors with each. 1. MacBook Pro. - I have a good 3-4 year old MacBook Pro, don't really need to get a new laptop per se - I had an earlier MacBook Pro that I docked for use as my desktop; switched away to my 2006 iMac for a couple of reasons including management of physical space on my desk, and don't want to go back. + Up-to-date I/O ports: 2 Thunderbolt 2 ports, 2 USB3.0 - - But not all that many ports. 2 USB3.0 on the laptop and 3 USB2.0 on the display don't leave me much to work with once I attach keyboard, printer, scanner, and CD reader. USB hubs tend to be unreliable in my experience, some items (like the keyboard) just don't work unless directly attached, and the laptop option just didn't seem very attractive. - 16 Gb memory limit 2. Mac Mini - has not been updated in 15 months or so - Only 1 Thunderbolt (and not Thunderbolt 2) port + FW800 (1) and USB3.0 (4) ports. More flexibility than with the laptop option. - 16 Gb memory limit 3. iMac + all-in-one design, no need for a separate display + Two Thunderbolt ports (albeit not Thunderbolt 2) + Both TB ports usable, no need to dedicate one to the monitor - But one T'Bolt port is needed for running my FW external drives. + USB3.0 (4) So, a slight gain over the Mini with respect to I/O.. + 32 Gb memory limit + Usable as a stand-alone Thunderbolt display if/when I change to a system that requires such a display. 4. Mac Pro + +Beautiful! + 64 Gb memory limit + More Thunderbolt 2 and USB3.0 ports than I can count - - Expensive - Almost certainly overkill for how I would use it. I held off for several weeks, thinking that the Mini and/or Thunderbolt displays might be updated when the MacPro was finally available, but that didn't happen. I decided not to worry about buying THE computer that would last me the rest of my life, but rather buy one that is good enough for what I need now and the next couple of years. So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. Thanks again to those who commented earlier - you gave me useful food for thought. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML,
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
On Dec 23, 2013, at 4:54 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Stan, Just one question/comment: Why would you have an external SSD and internal HD? While I don't have my own experience with Thunderbolt, all other interfaces (USB 3.0, eSATA, FW-400, FW-800, and even FW-3200) are inferior to SATA-3 (not counting SAS-600 which is nominally on par with SATA3) Thuderbolt is the only one that seems to be exceeding what SATA-3 can do. So, having an external SSD drive (which I would expect to be SATA-3 drive?) Yes would fully benefit from its speed only if you are connecting it via Thunderbolt. Are you? My plan is to connect the SSD via USB3.0 as an interim measure. Though I've read that this is easily fast enough for my primary purpose (LR catalog and cache), I do intend to move to a Thunderbolt-connected enclosure for the SSD if/when I can find one. Still looking... stan Igor On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: I held off for several weeks, thinking that the Mini and/or Thunderbolt displays might be updated when the MacPro was finally available, but that didn't happen. I decided not to worry about buying THE computer that would last me the rest of my life, but rather buy one that is good enough for what I need now and the next couple of years. So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 04:54:40PM -0500, Igor Roshchin wrote: Stan, Just one question/comment: Why would you have an external SSD and internal HD? Because Apple prices on upgrading a hard drive are on the far side of rapacious. I've also heard rumors that upgrading internal drives on some of the new macs (macbooks anyways) cannot be done without a soldering iron. In any case, upgrading the HD in my older iMac looked like it would be a major pain. While I don't have my own experience with Thunderbolt, all other interfaces (USB 3.0, eSATA, FW-400, FW-800, and even FW-3200) are inferior to SATA-3 (not counting SAS-600 which is nominally on par with SATA3) Thuderbolt is the only one that seems to be exceeding what SATA-3 can do. My understanding is that Thunderbolt is basically an external SATA. I think I posted some tests I did a little while ago that showed my USB-3 SSD outperforming the internal spinny drive. I think the theoretical speeds are 6GbS to the drive and 5GbS over USB 3. So, having an external SSD drive (which I would expect to be SATA-3 drive?) would fully benefit from its speed only if you are connecting it via Thunderbolt. Are you? He may not be maximizing performance, but he may be maximizing his performance for his dollar. The one thing that does seem to make the new iMac more interesting than just a mini plus a thunderbolt monitor is that in theory it can eventually be used as a t-bolt monitor. Igor On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: I held off for several weeks, thinking that the Mini and/or Thunderbolt displays might be updated when the MacPro was finally available, but that didn't happen. I decided not to worry about buying THE computer that would last me the rest of my life, but rather buy one that is good enough for what I need now and the next couple of years. So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 05:14:05PM -0500, Stan Halpin wrote: On Dec 23, 2013, at 4:54 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Stan, So, having an external SSD drive (which I would expect to be SATA-3 drive?) Yes would fully benefit from its speed only if you are connecting it via Thunderbolt. Are you? My plan is to connect the SSD via USB3.0 as an interim measure. Though I've read that this is easily fast enough for my primary purpose (LR catalog and cache), I do intend to move to a Thunderbolt-connected enclosure for the SSD if/when I can find one. Still looking... If you find one, please let us know. I was looking for t-bolt enclosures and they all seem to be subject to the apple tax. Apple seems to be doing the bare minimum that they can get away with to pretend that t-bolt isn't a monopoly interface, so that they can still charge premium for t-bolt hardware. Igor On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: I held off for several weeks, thinking that the Mini and/or Thunderbolt displays might be updated when the MacPro was finally available, but that didn't happen. I decided not to worry about buying THE computer that would last me the rest of my life, but rather buy one that is good enough for what I need now and the next couple of years. So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
On Dec 23, 2013, at 5:16 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 04:54:40PM -0500, Igor Roshchin wrote: Stan, Just one question/comment: Why would you have an external SSD and internal HD? Because Apple prices on upgrading a hard drive are on the far side of rapacious. I've also heard rumors that upgrading internal drives on some of the new macs (macbooks anyways) cannot be done without a soldering iron. In any case, upgrading the HD in my older iMac looked like it would be a major pain. While I don't have my own experience with Thunderbolt, all other interfaces (USB 3.0, eSATA, FW-400, FW-800, and even FW-3200) are inferior to SATA-3 (not counting SAS-600 which is nominally on par with SATA3) Thuderbolt is the only one that seems to be exceeding what SATA-3 can do. My understanding is that Thunderbolt is basically an external SATA. I think I posted some tests I did a little while ago that showed my USB-3 SSD outperforming the internal spinny drive. I think the theoretical speeds are 6GbS to the drive and 5GbS over USB 3. So, having an external SSD drive (which I would expect to be SATA-3 drive?) would fully benefit from its speed only if you are connecting it via Thunderbolt. Are you? He may not be maximizing performance, but he may be maximizing his performance for his dollar. I think so Larry. Even if I am not absolutely maxing performance, I'll be way beyond what I've been using. The one thing that does seem to make the new iMac more interesting than just a mini plus a thunderbolt monitor is that in theory it can eventually be used as a t-bolt monitor. That was definitely a major consideration for me. stan Igor On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: I held off for several weeks, thinking that the Mini and/or Thunderbolt displays might be updated when the MacPro was finally available, but that didn't happen. I decided not to worry about buying THE computer that would last me the rest of my life, but rather buy one that is good enough for what I need now and the next couple of years. So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
just a couple of comments... on 2013-12-23 11:55 Stan Halpin wrote The one that most appealed to me was the Mac Thunderbolt 27 display. As a display it is said to be a good one (YMMV), plus it can serve as a hub for external drives etc. However, it hasn't been updated in 15-18 months; the I/O ports in the hub are Thunderbolt (1), FW800 (1) and USB2.0 (3). But the Thunderbolt is used for the input from a laptop, Mini, or Pro,[...] that's not quite right; there is a built-in Thunderbolt cable to connect to computer, plus another Thunderbolt port for daisy chaining additional Thunderbolt devices; 1. MacBook Pro. [...] - - But not all that many ports. 2 USB3.0 on the laptop and 3 USB2.0 on the display don't leave me much to work with once I attach keyboard, printer, scanner, and CD reader. USB hubs tend to be unreliable in my experience, some items (like the keyboard) just don't work unless directly attached, and the laptop option just didn't seem very attractive. keyboard, printer, scanner, CD reader could all go on one USB 2 hub; they are slow devices and don't need individual ports 2. Mac Mini [...] - Only 1 Thunderbolt (and not Thunderbolt 2) port other than a 4K monitor i'm not aware of anything that really requires Thunderbolt 2 throughput So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. good choice and good reasoning -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
on 2013-12-23 15:16 Larry Colen wrote On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 04:54:40PM -0500, Igor Roshchin wrote: Stan, Just one question/comment: Why would you have an external SSD and internal HD? Because Apple prices on upgrading a hard drive are on the far side of rapacious. I've also heard rumors that upgrading internal drives on some of the new macs (macbooks anyways) cannot be done without a soldering iron. In any case, upgrading the HD in my older iMac looked like it would be a major pain. an external SSD can be just as fast as internal, and i think it's a good option for flexibility and cost-savings given what Apple supplies afaik, none of the current Apple products needs a soldering iron to replace the drive; in the laptops, Apple is using proprietary form factors and connectors, but there are replacement units available on the new iMac, the hard drive is an ordinary SATA drive, not soldered in, but to get to it you have to separate the display panel from the chassis by spudging through adhesive foam, so it's much hairier than the suction cup procedure that the previous iMacs used http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2639+Hard+Drive+Replacement/19643 of the current Macs, i believe only the Mini and the non-retina 13 MacBook Pro have relatively straightforward drive-replacement procedures My understanding is that Thunderbolt is basically an external SATA. no, not SATA — Thunderbolt is literally a transport for PCIe plus DisplayPort; that's why it works directly with DisplayPort monitors, using only a Mini DisplayPort cable, whereas for storage devices, all the logic of a PCI-SATA interface is required, which contributes to the cost most SSDs today will not saturate USB-3 on their own, but RAID or drive-to-drive transfers on the same USB bus could saturate it -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
on 2013-12-23 15:19 Larry Colen wrote On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 05:14:05PM -0500, Stan Halpin wrote: I do intend to move to a Thunderbolt-connected enclosure for the SSD if/when I can find one. Still looking... If you find one, please let us know. I was looking for t-bolt enclosures and they all seem to be subject to the apple tax. cheapest way to get a Thunderbolt drive is not an actual enclosure, but an adapter from Seagate which happens to provide a bare SATA connector: http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Portable-Thunderbolt-Adapter-STAE128/dp/B009HQCARY you'll see from the reviews that people are using it with SSDs; i have not seen a benchmark, nor do i know whether it supports SATA-3 speeds -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Mac purchase questions - followup report
On Dec 23, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info wrote: I held off for several weeks, thinking that the Mini and/or Thunderbolt displays might be updated when the MacPro was finally available, but that didn't happen. I decided not to worry about buying THE computer that would last me the rest of my life, but rather buy one that is good enough for what I need now and the next couple of years. So I ordered the iMac. I didn't max it out; e.g., I'll add memory from other sources. And I went with an old-technology internal drive; an external SSD is on order that will tie into one of the USB ports. Good luck with it, Stan! The iMac is a darn good system. My mini (2.6 i7 Quad, 16G RAM, 1T internal drive) is quite good enough as it is for the work I'm doing, but I'm adding a second internal SSD drive to it over the holiday break. I use it with a Thunderbolt Display, a full size wired keyboard, and wireless trackpad. I have a bunch of external drives for data, backup and archives. I went this way rather than another laptop or iMac because if I want to upgrade CPU, it's easy to just unplug the old one and plug in the new one. And I can use it with my work laptops anytime I need to as well. I've used the same display and peripherals through five different machines in the past two years. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
