Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013, Larry Colen wrote: In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. ...or at least until your SD card fills up. (Which is what happened to me with that Endicott Sunset shot on the open gallery, I could have kept shooting for another fifteen or thirty minutes otherwise.) This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ Nice! Good water reflections, would be tempted to crop a bit on the left to remove the edge-effect mast. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
Still, it's a very nice capture and only you know how much better it was. -Original Message- From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com Subject: PESO lesson hopefully learned This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
Larry it ever so slightly tilts to the left. Also it seems you couldn't decide which part of the scene to prefer - the skies or the sky reflection in the water - the line separating water and the trees on the background is pretty much square in the middle of the frame. I should point out that the piece of dry land in the bottom right corner seems to be just in place to anchor (no pun) the scene. On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
You're welcome. It is now ever so slightly better ;-). On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 05:31:13PM +0300, Boris Liberman wrote: Larry it ever so slightly tilts to the left. Also it seems you couldn't decide which part of the scene to prefer - the skies or the sky reflection in the water - the line separating water and the trees on the background is pretty much square in the middle of the frame. I should point out that the piece of dry land in the bottom right corner seems to be just in place to anchor (no pun) the scene. Thanks for the comments. I made a couple of subtle adjustments to the photo based on them. On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:21:03AM -0400, Kenneth Waller wrote: Still, it's a very nice capture and only you know how much better it was. Thanks. -Original Message- From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com Subject: PESO lesson hopefully learned This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 05:31:13PM +0300, Boris Liberman wrote: Larry it ever so slightly tilts to the left. Also it seems you couldn't decide which part of the scene to prefer - the skies or the sky reflection in the water - the line separating water and the trees on the background is pretty much square in the middle of the frame. I should point out that the piece of dry land in the bottom right corner seems to be just in place to anchor (no pun) the scene. Thanks for the comments. I made a couple of subtle adjustments to the photo based on them. On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
Agreed! On Tue, Jul 23, 2013, Boris Liberman wrote: You're welcome. It is now ever so slightly better ;-). On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 05:31:13PM +0300, Boris Liberman wrote: Larry it ever so slightly tilts to the left. Also it seems you couldn't decide which part of the scene to prefer - the skies or the sky reflection in the water - the line separating water and the trees on the background is pretty much square in the middle of the frame. I should point out that the piece of dry land in the bottom right corner seems to be just in place to anchor (no pun) the scene. Thanks for the comments. I made a couple of subtle adjustments to the photo based on them. On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
Beautiful scene, subtly rendered. Excellent stuff, Larry. Been there, done that on the walking away from a sunset. I learned my lesson by returning the next night armed with written down times, and patiently waited. Luckily I got what I wanted the 2nd night. Rarely so lucky! On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 3:36 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
On 7/23/2013 2:36 AM, Larry Colen wrote: In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. Very nice scene, Larry. Be sure to post the results if you decide to do the HDR thing with them. I tried my hand at it when I first got started in photography. Needless to say, the results weren't what anyone would call subtle. ;) -- Walt -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
When shooting sunsets any time you quit before it's pitch dark you're going to miss the best part. The colors may not get any better if you stay there, but I guarandamntee they will if you don't. On 7/23/2013 3:36 AM, Larry Colen wrote: This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:16:45PM -0400, John Sessoms wrote: When shooting sunsets any time you quit before it's pitch dark you're going to miss the best part. The colors may not get any better if you stay there, but I guarandamntee they will if you don't. Mark! On 7/23/2013 3:36 AM, Larry Colen wrote: This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO lesson hopefully learned
I learned on cruises that you always wait 15-30 minutes after the sun goes under the horizon before walking away. Most people would show up for 'that moment' and miss the real show. Only actual photographers would remain that long (and there were never many of those people) Gerrit -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Larry Colen Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:36 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: PESO lesson hopefully learned This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO lesson hopefully learned
Lovely colours and good composition. The land bit in lower RH corner anchors the shot to land and I think gives it more context. Gerrit -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Larry Colen Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:36 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: PESO lesson hopefully learned This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 02:05:10PM -0400, Gerrit Visser wrote: Lovely colours and good composition. The land bit in lower RH corner anchors the shot to land and I think gives it more context. Thanks. And I hope that this discussion will save someone else the grief of realizing that they missed the best shot of the sunset. I usually don't get a chance to start photographing until after the peak, because I'll notice the sunset, and it will take me until after the peak until I'm able to start shooting. Gerrit -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Larry Colen Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:36 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: PESO lesson hopefully learned This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO lesson hopefully learned
Larry, Beautiful foreground for the sunset. Regards, Bob S. On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 2:36 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: This weekend was my sister's 30 year high school reunion. She and a couple of friends rented a house down by the yacht harbor for a couple of days. Last night, I was down there noticed that it was a nice sunset and walked across the street so I could get some photos of the yacht harbor without telephone wires in the frame. I took a variety of shots, walked back to the house and noticed that just as I got back to the house, the colors were peaking. I went back down to the harbor, but by the time I got there, the best of the color had faded. In the future, when I'm photographing a sunset, I'll try to remember to wait until after I see the color fading before I give up and quit shooting. This one was from after I went back down, I had to shoot a lot tighter so that I wouldn't get the ugly bits of the sky in the frame. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/9346186775/ I did bracket my shots, and should probably try HDR on some of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
