RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary R, list, My apologies for taking ten days to reply to your post, Gary, because I had to figure out what I really meant by “the primacy of esthetics.” What I had in mind (rather vaguely) was the “aesthetic contemplation” which is one form of “Musement” or “Pure Play” as Peirce called it (EP

Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

            Supp-supplement: And I think, this is the core of the natural fallacy: That you cannot conclude from "Is" to "Ought". I think, the natural fallacy does not exist, it only is a fallacy, if you do not regard the "Want", the voluntarity. Ethics are not based on "Ought", but about "Want

Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

      Supplement: And about ethics, I think, that not only the aim plays a role, but also the history. For example, somebody observes people working together, which works very well, and they seem happy. So he says: "Working together is good". Then he becomes a politician in North Korea, and force

Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Jon, Gary, Gary, List,   I merely want to talk about the quote "there will be no such thing as esthetic goodness" (Peirce). How did he mean that? Did he mean, that there is no universal esthetic good- or badness? Maybe, but I think, that there is esthetic good- and badness that counts alike for a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary R., Gary F., List: Peirce's statement that "there will be no such thing as esthetic goodness" is by no means his final word on the subject, not even in this particular lecture. In fact, here is what he adds in the very next paragraph. CSP: But the instant that an esthetic ideal is proposed

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary f, List, I've been reflecting on your several posts in the Pragmatic Trivium thread(s) and found them, and especially this one, very useful in beginning to once again try to think through these matters. But, preparing for a medical procedure happening overmorrow (a word -- archaic, but used a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

hout XRA and DA I wouldn’t have the > pragmatic wisdom to know what I must do in light of them. > > > > Terry > > > > *From:* Gary Richmond > *Sent:* Monday, July 6, 2020 6:35 PM > *To:* Peirce-L > *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium > &

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

d) > connection between this post and my post yesterday about the primacy of > esthetics in the Pragmatic Trivium. > > Gary f. > > > > } The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure > and the sense in which he has attained to liberation from

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

:03 To: Peirce-L Subject: Re: Re: RE: RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium List, Whoops. I was just informed that I left off the Kyle Henry quote. Sorry about that. Here it is: Kyle Henry: Extremist Libertarianism, ascendant from the Reagan revolution onward, has been so corrosive in the

Re: Re: RE: RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

gt; See also Milton Friedman's work [eg, Free to Choose]. And F. Hayek's famed >>> 'The Road to Serfdom] >>> >>> A data source for exploring which nations operate within individual >>> freedoms, is to examine the number of inventions, patents, new ent

Re: Re: RE: RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

have attested, for aligning the >> freedom of the individual [Firstness and Secondness] with the restraints of >> the collective habits-Rules [Government] is always contentious - but- to >> have only ONE of these three universes/categories in operation is >> disastrous.

Re: Re: RE: RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

ve to interact. Furthermore, to reject historicism, > or an a priori destiny and leave the future open - is emotionally difficult > for it involves risk - and most of us prefer security, even under a 'gentle > tyrant' rather than risk. So democracy has to be always an active proces

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

John, your post arrived just as I was about to post this one, and I’ll have to study it for awhile before I can reply. (Same with Gary’s post quoting Walt Whitman.) Here I’m just following up on my post to the list this morning. In a footnote to his 1911 essay A Sketch of Logical Critics, Peirce

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary F, I have a great deal of sympathy for your Turning Signs.  And I believe that issues of normative science deserve a great deal of attention especially now. For any points that I may criticize or quibble, I emphasize that my comments are about details, rather than the main issues you d

Aw: Re: Re: RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

r dispute my views as stated in this message, please share your thoughts further so I may sharpen my own. Thanks!   Still in One Peace, Terry   From: Edwina Taborsky Sent: Friday, July 3, 2020 3:45 PM To: 'Peirce-L' ; g...@gnusystems.ca Subject: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Re: Aw: Re: RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

own. Thanks! Still in One Peace, Terry From: Edwina Taborsky Sent: Friday, July 3, 2020 3:45 PM To: 'Peirce-L' ; g...@gnusystems.ca Subject: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium I personally find the comments by Henry James the elder rather ..I'

Aw: Re: RE: RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

upport - and where we reject any hints or efforts to remove these freedoms. Edwina Edwina   On Sat 04/07/20 12:27 PM , Terry L Rankin rankin.te...@hotmail.com sent:     From: Edwina Taborsky Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 9:01 AM To: tabor...@primus.ca; 'Peirce-L' ; g...@gnusystems.c

Re: RE: RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

efforts to remove these freedoms. Edwina Edwina On Sat 04/07/20 12:27 PM , Terry L Rankin rankin.te...@hotmail.com sent: From: Edwina Taborsky Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 9:01 AM To: tabor...@primus.ca; 'Peirce-L' ; g...@gnusystems.ca; Terry L Ran

Re: RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

or dispute my views as stated in this message, please share your thoughts further so I may sharpen my own. Thanks! Still in One Peace, Terry From: Edwina Taborsky Sent: Friday, July 3, 2020 3:45 PM To: 'Peirce-L' ; g...@gnusystems.ca Subject:

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

List, Perhaps I can try to bring this thread back to its stated subject by spelling out some implications of my concluding sentence at http://www.gnusystems.ca/TS/snc.htm#x14

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Hi Gary, list, You said: "Secondly, why speak of Peirce's normatives sciences of esthetics, ethics, and logic as "exalted"? Who "exalts" them? What a strange expression to use about these sciences." Is it not *we Peirceans,* who exalts the normative sciences? I mean, *everybody* knows what the no

Aw: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Im agree with Edwina. I also agree, that a perfect society is one of social sphere omnipresence and omnipotence, leaving the individuals merely spontaneity, and no will. They are reduced to firstness, but what is done with this their residual spontaneity, secondness and thirdness, is only a matter

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Jerry, Gary F, Jerry, first, I would like to know why you -- or, for that matter, anyone -- can speak for all list members on any matter? ("like everyone else on this list") Secondly, why speak of Peirce's normatives sciences of esthetics, ethics, and logic as "exalted"? Who "exalts" them? What a

Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

I personally find the comments by Henry James the elder rather ..I'm not sure of the word. Not merely naïve but possibly alarming. I consider that the agenda to develop a 'perfect society' has always been a basis for totalitarian subjugation - whether it be the socialism of fas

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary F, Thanks for this which I found quite interesting--and it was possible to read it in 3 minutes! I am working on a short message to post in this thread to include a consideration of Suzanne Langer's work in aesthetics and philosophy of mind, and which may have some bearing on the question. I

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary F, list, I, like everyone else on this list I'm sure, am curious as to learn more about what you mean by this. Please elaborate, for we all stand in need of a clear explanation for why it is that a thing as exalted as Peirce's Trivium is merely being neglected, don't you agree? So please, te

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary R, list, I just came across a piece of the reverse side of Turning Signs that strikes me as relevant to the “ways in which Peirce's philosophical trivium might help inform the aesthetics, ethics, and critical thinking of the world as it emerges from the coronavirus pandemic” — and relevant

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary R., List: I have been contemplating this interesting thread off and on all week, trying to ascertain whether I have anything to contribute that might be worthwhile. My tendency to dwell on theory is well-documented, but your original post clearly emphasizes the "ordinary and potentially prag

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary F, List, As you know, I greatly admire your book,*Turning Signs*, and have recommended it (and your blog) on the List. However, as mentioned earlier, I'm going to refrain from commenting -- at least much -- on posts for a few days, thus allowing others to post or, if they wish, respond to mes

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Gary R (and list), The question you pose at the end of your post is a big one, and my answer is embedded in Chapter 16 of Turning Signs, http://www.gnusystems.ca/TS/prx.htm . Of course there’s always room for improvement (or at least refinement) in anyone’s answer to such a question, so I look

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

Edwina, List, Thanks for this interesting post which I've forward to a couple of sociologists and educators whom I thought might be interested in reading it. I've decided not to respond to any posts in this new thread myself for at least a few days, allowing others to do so if they wish to before

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Pragmatic Trivium

BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }Gary R - that's an interesting post. I'll have to think a lot more about it - but I have a few comments. Traditionally, the areas of ethics, aesthetics, logic - have been the domain of the upper classes. The lower