Re: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-05 Thread Eric Charles
Gary, Thank you for the explanation. It is the best I have heard by far when I voice this concern, so I have pondered it for a bit. I guess what you are describing as a "cenoscopic claim" still fits what I would call an "empirical claim," broadly speaking. As you put it: He is making an claim

Aw: RE: RE: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-03 Thread Helmut Raulien
Thank you, Gary! In my blog I still am busy trying to classify the kinds of hierarchies after the categories. That is a bit complicated, because categories have subcategories, and a lot of kinds of hierarchies result, as well as parts of holarchies (composed parts), as as classes too. As basis I

RE: RE: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-02 Thread gnox
Helmut, yes, “self-control” is almost an English translation of the Greek root of “autonomy.” And yes, I do see a tension between individual self-control and control of the individual by external agencies or subordination to the community. In fact this is one of the major themes of my book

Aw: RE: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-02 Thread Helmut Raulien
Gary f., list, "self-control is reasonableness": This reminds me of Kants critique of pure reason, if you replace "self-control" with autonomy. So- is there always if not to say a war, a competition between the individual´s autonomy, and heteronomy, that is between self-control and

RE: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-01 Thread gnox
Eric (and list), I don’t believe that Peirce is making an empirical claim here, i.e. he is not claiming that his generalization is true because it is based on observation of a large sample of individuals. He is making a cenoscopic claim, i.e. describing his own experience and assuming that

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-01 Thread Eugene Halton
Dear Edwina, Yes, the finding is astounding, and has changed the understanding of the earliest transitions to domestication. But your doubt that hunter gatherers built these sculptures is based on some ideology without evidence, and contradicts not only Klaus Schmidt, but a number of other

Re: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-01 Thread Stephen C. Rose
There are some arguments about making ourselves more reasonable. They derive in some respects from Peirce's fundamental assertions regarding dualism and nominalism, both of which are less reasonable than thinking based on triadic principles and inferences. I am sure others are well-versed in

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-01 Thread Edwina Taborsky
BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; } Gene- I doubt that hunter-gatherers built these sculptures; it would have been a two-class societal order, with a 'godly elite' so to speak, to order the many 'workers' required to carry out the task. This would also

Re: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-01 Thread Eric Charles
Coming in late, but I'm never quite sure what to think when Peirce starts making (seemingly) flippant claims about the universal nature of men's psychological states. At the end here, he says: "That is, the man *can,* or if you please is *compelled,* to *make his life more reasonable.* " It

Re: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-01 Thread Eugene Halton
Dear Edwina, Re "myth of control of nature." 11,000 years ago hunter gatherers built the first monumental sculptures, 4 to 5 meters tall, 5 to ten tons each, of human forms, at Göbekli Tepe in southern Turkey, where some of the earliest domesticated grains from the same time period were found

Re: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-01 Thread Edwina Taborsky
BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; } Gene - please see my comments below: On Sun 01/10/17 6:33 PM , Eugene Halton eugene.w.halto...@nd.edu sent: Dear Edwina, The evidence contradicts a number of your claims. 1] Edwina: "Most tribal economies are focused

Re: RE: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-10-01 Thread Stephen C. Rose
Gary F. Interesting way of moving toward the notion that Peirce did have a general sense of what constitutes goodness or the sum of values. His passing denigration of the 19th-century culture of greed and his implicit allegiance to Christ's values over the creedal church seem to argue for a

Re: RE: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lowell Lecture 1.4

2017-09-30 Thread Edwina Taborsky
No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that many of us, either often or sometimes, are 'informationally frozen'. Our 'reasoning' functions within a 'bad reasoning', i.e., within degenerate Thirdness, as evinced in the types of 'reasoning' found in that derived