Jon, Edwina, List
It becomes a weasel, if people use it for explaining something else, instead of treating it as a yet not fully explained phenomenon. Then it is like the "dormative virtue" of Opium (Peirce). A pseudo-explanation.
Best
Helmut
02. August 2021 um 18:48 Uhr
"Jon
Helmut - how is the term of 'emergence' used to explain something
else? What is this 'something else' that is being explained? And are
you saying that 'emergence' is a 'not fully explained phenomenon'?
The abductive reality is: that a novel form of life 'emerges' as a
discrete
Edwina, List
I am absolutely not against using the term, but against stopping at for example: "Life has emerged due to nature´s intention to form higher complexity". This would be using something, in this case "intention", that is a trait of life. So it is a tautology, like Peirce´s
Edwina, List
Nothing is problematic about that, the way you have put it. It surely is a fact of reality, and of empirical observation. But I think, there always should be mentioned what you have added, the WHY-question.
Jon´s weasel-reference I do understand. There are galore pseudoscientific
Helmut, list
1] I myself, have supported the concept of increased and increasing
diversity and complexity as an explanation for the emergence of novel
forms of matter. But that's hardly specific to me - not only was that
an explanation provided by Peirce [see
Helmet, list - I’m not sure of your point. What’s problematic about saying
that emergence is a fact of reality; ie it’s not a part of logic but of
empirical observation.
Now, to move on from this empirical observation of WHAT is observed to a
hypothesis of WHY this is occurring is a
Edwina, List
As often, this discussion merely is a misunderstanding of a term, in this case "explanation". I was arguing in a way, that might be understood such, like that an explanation only is valuable, and could justifiedly be called "explanation", if it is complete, including close
Helmut> "Emergence" for me seems to be a not yet
logically fully explained phenomenon.
That's true. There are
various hypotheses, but none of them are sufficient to explain the
result. That is typical for most unsolved problems.
In short, the
word emergence is a placeholder to be replaced
John, List
Yes! Like a weasel! Anyway I didn´t understand, what is wrong with a weasel. I propose it for mascot. Ok, only this thread´s one.
03. August 2021 um 22:18 Uhr
"John F. Sowa"
wrote:
Helmut> "Emergence" for me seems to be a not yet logically fully explained phenomenon.
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}John, Helmut, Jon, list
I must admit that I'm baffled over the various comments about the
use of the term 'emergence'.
I am obviously missing some nuance of meaning!
All it means in my reference
Edwina> All [the word emergence] means in my reference is 'coming
into being'; i.e., becoming
a morphology, a form, whether in the mode of being of
1ns,2ns,3ns.
Yes. That is all it means. Jon A called it a 'weasel
word' as a sign of deprecation because it names a phenomenon without
Jerry, list
Thanks - very nice post .Much better description than mine - it's
what I was trying to say.
Heteropathy..".this transformation of matter into novel forms with
semantic attributes UNRELATED to the semantic and quantitative
attributes of the elements. "
Edwina,
I agree with you. The question of how life emerged is
important, and it's important to explore all the possible ways in which it
might have emerged on earth and on other planets or moons in the solar
system, galaxy, or universe.
I also implied that Peirce would have
approved of the
BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;
}John, list
No-one is denying that 'emergence' is only the beginning of a
complex study. But, as with any situation in the phaneron, what we
observe is, so to speak', 'what we observe' - and we have to
John, Edwina, Jon A., List
"Emergence" for me seems to be a not yet logically fully explained phenomenon. My temporal assumption (not belief, in which I don´t believe) is, that it is individuation and downscaling. Meaning for the example of emergence of life, the universe is a living organism
Edwina, Helmut, Jon A, List,
The term 'weasel word' for emergence
has negative connotations. I wouldn't suggest the negativity, but I admit
that it hides a wide range of interpretants that deserve to be analyzed in
more detail.
I agree that the early stages of interpretation are so
rapid
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