Re: [PEIRCE-L] Do trees talk to each other? Express emotions and make friends? Barking?
Dear Edwina, Yes, thanks for adding the context of mind to brain, the Peircean view, in one sense that brain is involved in mind, but also that mind is much broader than brain, and that there many cases of mind not involving brain. Gene On Sep 16, 2016 10:26 AM, "Edwina Taborsky" wrote: > Eugene, list; yes, that's a great example of Mind operating without a > separate brain. And the natural world does just that. We humans have > developed a symbolic method of communication, language, but, that doesn't > mean that the rest of the natural world doesn't operate via informational > interaction and knowledge development! > > It is indeed like a neural net - that semiosic triad that networks and > links to other nets. And you don't need symbolic language to generate or > exchange or receive information. > > Edwina > > - Original Message - > *From:* Eugene Halton > *To:* Peirce List > *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 10:13 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] Do trees talk to each other? Express emotions > and make friends? Barking? > > Dear Charles, > Myecologist Paul Stamets describes ways trees and other plants have > communication through fungal networks. They provide something like a neural > net would for a brain. > Perhaps one could say that trees have a "brain" without needing a > brain. And that humans, despite having brains, can be utterly brainless > when it comes to deforesting the earth. > Here is a video on fungi where Stamets reports some of his work: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAw_Zzge49c > Cheers, > Gene Halton > > On Sep 16, 2016 9:33 AM, "Charles Pyle" wrote: > > > > There's increasing evidence to show that trees are able to communicate > with each other. More than that, trees can learn. > > > > If that's true — and my experience as a forester convinces me it is — > then they must be able to store and transmit information. > > > > And scientists are beginning to ask: is it possible that trees possess > intelligence, and memories, and emotions? So, to cut to the quick, do trees > have brains? > > > > > > It sounds incredible, but when you discover how trees talk to each > other, feel pain, nurture each other, even care for their close relatives > and organise themselves into communities, it's hard to be sceptical. > > > - > > > > The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They > Communicate—Discoveries from a Secret World > > > > Are trees social beings? In this international bestseller, forester and > author Peter Wohlleben convincingly makes the case that, yes, the forest is > a social network. He draws on groundbreaking scientific discoveries to > describe how trees are like human families: tree parents live together with > their children, communicate with them, support them as they grow, share > nutrients with those who are sick or struggling, and even warn each other > of impending dangers. Wohlleben also shares his deep love of woods and > forests, explaining the amazing processes of life, death, and regeneration > he has observed in his woodland. > > -- > > > - > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > > - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
Re: [PEIRCE-L] Do trees talk to each other? Express emotions and make friends? Barking?
Eugene, list; yes, that's a great example of Mind operating without a separate brain. And the natural world does just that. We humans have developed a symbolic method of communication, language, but, that doesn't mean that the rest of the natural world doesn't operate via informational interaction and knowledge development! It is indeed like a neural net - that semiosic triad that networks and links to other nets. And you don't need symbolic language to generate or exchange or receive information. Edwina - Original Message - From: Eugene Halton To: Peirce List Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Do trees talk to each other? Express emotions and make friends? Barking? Dear Charles, Myecologist Paul Stamets describes ways trees and other plants have communication through fungal networks. They provide something like a neural net would for a brain. Perhaps one could say that trees have a "brain" without needing a brain. And that humans, despite having brains, can be utterly brainless when it comes to deforesting the earth. Here is a video on fungi where Stamets reports some of his work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAw_Zzge49c Cheers, Gene Halton On Sep 16, 2016 9:33 AM, "Charles Pyle" wrote: > > There's increasing evidence to show that trees are able to communicate with each other. More than that, trees can learn. > > If that's true — and my experience as a forester convinces me it is — then they must be able to store and transmit information. > > And scientists are beginning to ask: is it possible that trees possess intelligence, and memories, and emotions? So, to cut to the quick, do trees have brains? > > > It sounds incredible, but when you discover how trees talk to each other, feel pain, nurture each other, even care for their close relatives and organise themselves into communities, it's hard to be sceptical. > - > > The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate—Discoveries from a Secret World > > Are trees social beings? In this international bestseller, forester and author Peter Wohlleben convincingly makes the case that, yes, the forest is a social network. He draws on groundbreaking scientific discoveries to describe how trees are like human families: tree parents live together with their children, communicate with them, support them as they grow, share nutrients with those who are sick or struggling, and even warn each other of impending dangers. Wohlleben also shares his deep love of woods and forests, explaining the amazing processes of life, death, and regeneration he has observed in his woodland. -- - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
Re: [PEIRCE-L] Do trees talk to each other? Express emotions and make friends? Barking?
Dear Charles, Myecologist Paul Stamets describes ways trees and other plants have communication through fungal networks. They provide something like a neural net would for a brain. Perhaps one could say that trees have a "brain" without needing a brain. And that humans, despite having brains, can be utterly brainless when it comes to deforesting the earth. Here is a video on fungi where Stamets reports some of his work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAw_Zzge49c Cheers, Gene Halton On Sep 16, 2016 9:33 AM, "Charles Pyle" wrote: > > There's increasing evidence to show that trees are able to communicate with each other. More than that, trees can learn. > > If that's true — and my experience as a forester convinces me it is — then they must be able to store and transmit information. > > And scientists are beginning to ask: is it possible that trees possess intelligence, and memories, and emotions? So, to cut to the quick, do trees have brains? > > > It sounds incredible, but when you discover how trees talk to each other, feel pain, nurture each other, even care for their close relatives and organise themselves into communities, it's hard to be sceptical. > - > > The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate—Discoveries from a Secret World > > Are trees social beings? In this international bestseller, forester and author Peter Wohlleben convincingly makes the case that, yes, the forest is a social network. He draws on groundbreaking scientific discoveries to describe how trees are like human families: tree parents live together with their children, communicate with them, support them as they grow, share nutrients with those who are sick or struggling, and even warn each other of impending dangers. Wohlleben also shares his deep love of woods and forests, explaining the amazing processes of life, death, and regeneration he has observed in his woodland. - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
Re: [PEIRCE-L] Do trees talk to each other? Express emotions and make friends? Barking?
Of course trees and the biological organisms [and physico-chemical realm] communicate with each other; and can learn and can store and transmit information. They are, after all, operating within the triadic Sign and within the three Categories. The notion of "Mind' and its operation in ALL realms of matter [physico-chemical, biological, socioconceptual] is found throughout all of Peirce's work. "The being governed by a purpose or other final cause is the very essence of the psychical phenomenon' 1.269 and 'there is something in nature to which the human reason is analagous' 1.316 The fact is - the tree/biological organism does exist within normative habits of emergence and growth; this is Thirdness. Thirdness is never, as a set of common habits, isolate from informational interaction with others who share this set - and therefore, an individual articulation of this Thirdness [this species of tree] will be in informational contact with others of the same species. AND, via the categories of Firstness and Secondness, in informational exchange with other biological organisms in its vicinity. The graphic diagram of the semiosic triad [1.347] shows that the triad can never be an isolate but is networked with other triads. Therefore, within Peircean semiosis, - everything is interconnected and dynamic. And 'thought' or Mind is 'an active factor in the real world' 1.348] and not just 'competely determined by inviolable laws of dynamics' 1.348 As Peirce outlines in his discussions - protoplasm operates within all three categories...a 'way of thinking' and certainly, protoplasm 'feels'. There are too many comments in Peirce's work to deny this..and too many to include here. But there is work showing how biological organisms, in not only the moveable organisms such as birds, insects etc which DO exchange information, but in others such as trees, grasses [I'm aware of work in this area] - outlining the informational exchanges and reactions to new information within these organisms. If attacked by insects, as we know now, plants will release a chemical that entices insect predators.and so on. The Peircean world is - totally semiosic, dynamic, evolving, complex. Edwina - Original Message - From: Charles Pyle To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:33 AM Subject: [PEIRCE-L] Do trees talk to each other? Express emotions and make friends? Barking? There's increasing evidence to show that trees are able to communicate with each other. More than that, trees can learn. If that's true — and my experience as a forester convinces me it is — then they must be able to store and transmit information. And scientists are beginning to ask: is it possible that trees possess intelligence, and memories, and emotions? So, to cut to the quick, do trees have brains? It sounds incredible, but when you discover how trees talk to each other, feel pain, nurture each other, even care for their close relatives and organise themselves into communities, it's hard to be sceptical. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3792036/Do-trees-brains.html#ixzz4KQQRYXsO - The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate—Discoveries from a Secret World Are trees social beings? In this international bestseller, forester and author Peter Wohlleben convincingly makes the case that, yes, the forest is a social network. He draws on groundbreaking scientific discoveries to describe how trees are like human families: tree parents live together with their children, communicate with them, support them as they grow, share nutrients with those who are sick or struggling, and even warn each other of impending dangers. Wohlleben also shares his deep love of woods and forests, explaining the amazing processes of life, death, and regeneration he has observed in his woodland. https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Life-Trees-Communicate%C2%97Discoveries-Secret/dp/1771642483/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474032405&sr=8-1&keywords=hidden+lives+of+trees -- - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirc
Re: [PEIRCE-L] Do trees talk to each other? Express emotions and make friends? Barking?
CORRECTED: I think the underlying question is whether matter is all there is to anything. I think there is more than matter. So while I have no idea how far your idea goes--trees are after all unable to move any distance and so forth. But As a general proposition it seems to me probable that we cannot see all of reality and reality is everything. Books http://buff.ly/15GfdqU On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Charles Pyle wrote: > There's increasing evidence to show that trees are able to communicate > with each other. More than that, trees can learn. > > If that's true — and my experience as a forester convinces me it is — then > they must be able to store and transmit information. > > And scientists are beginning to ask: is it possible that trees possess > intelligence, and memories, and emotions? So, to cut to the quick, do trees > have brains? > > > It sounds incredible, but when you discover how trees talk to each other, > feel pain, nurture each other, even care for their close relatives and > organise themselves into communities, it's hard to be sceptical. > > > > Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3792036/Do-trees- > brains.html#ixzz4KQQRYXsO > - > The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate—Discoveries > from a Secret World > > Are trees social beings? In this international bestseller, forester and > author Peter Wohlleben convincingly makes the case that, yes, the forest is > a social network. He draws on groundbreaking scientific discoveries to > describe how trees are like human families: tree parents live together with > their children, communicate with them, support them as they grow, share > nutrients with those who are sick or struggling, and even warn each other > of impending dangers. Wohlleben also shares his deep love of woods and > forests, explaining the amazing processes of life, death, and regeneration > he has observed in his woodland. > > > https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Life-Trees-Communicate%C2% > 97Discoveries-Secret/dp/1771642483/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8& > qid=1474032405&sr=8-1&keywords=hidden+lives+of+trees > > > > > - > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > > > - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
Re: [PEIRCE-L] Do trees talk to each other? Express emotions and make friends? Barking?
I think the underlying question if whether matter is all there is to anything. I think there is more than matter. So while I have no idea how far your idea goes--trees are after all unable to move any distance and so forth. But As a general proposition it seems to me probable that we cannot see all of reality and reality is everything. Books http://buff.ly/15GfdqU On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Charles Pyle wrote: > There's increasing evidence to show that trees are able to communicate > with each other. More than that, trees can learn. > > If that's true — and my experience as a forester convinces me it is — then > they must be able to store and transmit information. > > And scientists are beginning to ask: is it possible that trees possess > intelligence, and memories, and emotions? So, to cut to the quick, do trees > have brains? > > > It sounds incredible, but when you discover how trees talk to each other, > feel pain, nurture each other, even care for their close relatives and > organise themselves into communities, it's hard to be sceptical. > > > > Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3792036/Do-trees- > brains.html#ixzz4KQQRYXsO > - > The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate—Discoveries > from a Secret World > > Are trees social beings? In this international bestseller, forester and > author Peter Wohlleben convincingly makes the case that, yes, the forest is > a social network. He draws on groundbreaking scientific discoveries to > describe how trees are like human families: tree parents live together with > their children, communicate with them, support them as they grow, share > nutrients with those who are sick or struggling, and even warn each other > of impending dangers. Wohlleben also shares his deep love of woods and > forests, explaining the amazing processes of life, death, and regeneration > he has observed in his woodland. > > > https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Life-Trees-Communicate%C2% > 97Discoveries-Secret/dp/1771642483/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8& > qid=1474032405&sr=8-1&keywords=hidden+lives+of+trees > > > > > - > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > > > - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
