I like Benjamin's general approach on this one thesis
However, in order to make the connection among oppressed classes down through history
that he does below, one must accept some connection among the slave, feudal and
capialists modes of production, rather than consider these connections
Charles says:
I like Benjamin's general approach on this one thesis
However, in order to make the connection among oppressed classes
down through history that he does below, one must accept some
connection among the slave, feudal and capialists modes of
production, rather than consider these
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/20/00 03:38PM
One can't properly recognize "the qualitatively emergent" when one
falls for anachronism or a "history of Progress" (Whig or Hegelian)
or historicism.
(((
CB: Marxism is fully capable of recognizing the qualitatively emergent in historical
What follows is my LBO-talk post on the question of memory history,
which includes my commentary upon Guzman's documentaries:
* Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:55:51 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Queer Angels of History (was RE: Butler)
Catheri
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
It is not the case that the Left prefers an association with violence
to non-violence. The Left -- or _any other political force_ for that
matter -- makes a cause out of *martyrs* . . .
A tentative suggestion. I've always sort of acted from the slogan,
We will
Carrol says:
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
It is not the case that the Left prefers an association with violence
to non-violence. The Left -- or _any other political force_ for that
matter -- makes a cause out of *martyrs* . . .
A tentative suggestion. I've always sort of acted from the
Justin says to Lou:
I agree that welfare state capitalism was not on the agenda in the
ex-bloc states, but that does not mean that state ownership that is
basically welfdarist is socialist any more than social democracy is
socialist.
In a message dated Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:33:40 PM Eastern
At 23:55 11/10/00 -0400, Yoshie wrote:
The point is that American leftists' foremost duty is to diminish the
American hegemony abroad, if they care about the degree of freedom that
peoples elsewhere possess to shape their own destinies. Are you not in
favor of more freedom, especially more
- Original Message -
From: "Yoshie Furuhashi" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It is possible that some American liberals leftists actually
understood the essence of the American Prince's role in the Yugoslav
civil wars (and what happened before and after them) and said with
open
En relación a [PEN-L:2978] RE: Re: Memory History: Herman Mel,
el 10 Oct 00, a las 20:05, Lisa Ian Murray dijo:
Nestor,
Do you mean this to say that nationalism is still desirable as a form
of cultural defense against the Americanization of everything?
Ian
I am a socialist, I don't
ng.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/11/00 02:01AM
Therefore, I conclude that the _dominant
ideological reflex_ of American leftists is to appoint themselves as
the police, prosecutor, judge, executioner of peoples who
unfortunately live in countries under America's Official Enemies
while excusing
CB: "Perhaps I should find some Henry James short story with the theme of
American as innocents victimized in jaded old Europe. I can't remember the
name of the one I am thinking of. I think someone dies of scarlet fever
that they catch while visiting the Roman Collesium or something like that.
I guess I am part of the stupid left that is blinkered by imperialist propaganda. I
don't see see how the ratio of state ownership in the former Yugoslavia is deeply
relevant to socialism or whether the regime was worth defending; I am aware that it
was high, but it was as high or higher in
Justin:
I guess I am part of the stupid left that is blinkered by imperialist
propaganda. I don't see see how the ratio of state ownership in the former
Yugoslavia is deeply relevant to socialism or whether the regime was worth
defending; I am aware that it was high, but it was as high or higher
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/11/00 11:52AM
Lou P:
The ratio of state ownership is deeply relevant. It helps to provide a job.
Jobs are necessary for life. With privatization, you get unemployment. With
unemployment you get begging, starvation, prostitution and despair. Very
important questions to
Louis:
We just disagree about the importance of state ownership in the abstract. I support
the welfare provisions you describe, of course, but they are possible under social
democratic capitalism, and state ownership does not guarantee them either. However,
this is a very deep philosophical
Louis wrote:
The ratio of state ownership is deeply relevant. It helps to provide a
job. Jobs are necessary for life. With privatization, you get
unemployment. With unemployment you get begging, starvation, prostitution
and despair. Very important questions to the working class, which is the
Justin wrote:
I do not blame the destruction of Yugoslavia solely on the Milosovic
regime, any more than I blame the destruction of the USSR on the Yeltsin
regime. In both case,there was a conspiracy among nationalist demagogues
(Slobo, Tujdman, etc.) who saw more for themselves in being
Justin:
We just disagree about the importance of state ownership in the abstract. I
support the welfare provisions you describe, of course, but they are
possible under social democratic capitalism, and state ownership does not
guarantee them either. However, this is a very deep philosophical
Jim Devine:
Do you believe that state ownership automatically creates a job? It's not
true in Algeria, for example, where the state ownership of the oil industry
coexists with high unemployment (one factor that has encouraged the Islamic
movement against the government there). Also, even in
Charles Brown wrote:
CPUSA had a theory of American exceptionalism in the 1930's:
Americanism is 20th Century Socialism ( or maybe the other way
around).
Speaking of the CPUSA, does anyone besides me read the People's
Weekly World? For the last month or two, the paper's been little more
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/11/00 12:58PM
Charles Brown wrote:
CPUSA had a theory of American exceptionalism in the 1930's:
Americanism is 20th Century Socialism ( or maybe the other way
around).
Speaking of the CPUSA, does anyone besides me read the People's
Weekly World? For the last month or
Louis Proyect wrote:
Actually, all of the greatest American literature seems to be wrapped
around this dialectic in one fashion or another. Huck Finn suffers a "loss
of innocence" when he abets a runaway slave. Dos Passos' USA trilogy
examines the fate of numerous characters who forsake
I agree that welfare state capitalism was not on the agenda in the ex-bloc states, but
that does not mean that state ownership that is basically welfdarist is socialist any
more than social democracy is socialist.
In a message dated Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:33:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Louis
En relación a [PEN-L:3000] Re: Memory History: Herman Melvill,
el 11 Oct 00, a las 12:28, Louis Proyect dijo:
I would only add to their excellent article that social democracy is
only possible in imperialist countries. In Costa Rica, the one place
it occurred in the Third World, market
Sam Pawlett wrote:
Apart from Marx and Engels, one of the only economists with a deep sense
of the tragic nature of the human condition is Amartya Sen whose stoic
acceptance of the tragic nature of the lives of the poorest under
capitalism render him a modern Marcus Aurelius or Senaca.
Message -
From: Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 11:11 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:2998] Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory History: Herman Melville's
_Benito Cereno_ (was Re: Yugoslavia to fSU and Chile)
Louis wrote:
The ratio of state ownership is deeply
Justin:
The regime drove the worker control that was once the glory of
Yugoslav socialism into the dust. It properly drew the hatred of the
Serbian people--the Montenegrins too. I am sure that they will be in
for an unpleasant surprise with the new order, but at this point
they are going
11, 2000 8:44 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:3029] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory History: Herman
Melville's _Benito Cereno_ (was Re: Yugoslavia to fSU and Chile)
I agree that state or rather some type of collective ownership is a
necessary but not a sufficient condition for socialism. Among the positive
In a message dated 10/11/00 10:19:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The problem is that "the choice" was not theirs. The bombings
economic sanctions, even aside from lesser forms of attacks and
propaganda, have shaped the nature of "the choice" made by a large
Justin:
In a message dated 10/11/00 10:19:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The problem is that "the choice" was not theirs. The bombings
economic sanctions, even aside from lesser forms of attacks and
propaganda, have shaped the nature of "the choice" made by a large
So is there some age limit on this "responsibility"? Are ten year old's
guilt=free? Are those suffering Alzheimers'
excluded? Are those who voiced opposition or even disapproved in thought OK?
Aren't Americans going to need
a humungous throng of shrinks to help Americans deal with their
En relación a [PEN-L:2965] Memory History: Herman Melville's ,
el 10 Oct 00, a las 17:51, Yoshie Furuhashi dijo:
What has not changed,
however, is the idea that it is Americans who should bring criminals
of the world to justice. It goes without saying that this self-image
makes Americans
Yoshie Furuhashi dijo:
What has not changed,
however, is the idea that it is Americans who should bring criminals
of the world to justice. It goes without saying that this self-image
makes Americans forget the fact that they are the biggest criminals:
the only remaining superpower
Ian:
Yoshie Furuhashi dijo:
What has not changed,
however, is the idea that it is Americans who should bring criminals
of the world to justice. It goes without saying that this self-image
makes Americans forget the fact that they are the biggest criminals:
the only remaining
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