Are you nuts? When has that kind of reverse strategy ever worked?
The Vietnam War was started when the draft was in place and ended after the
draft was abolished, which mitigates (though admittedly does not demolish)
the argument that the draft fueled the antiwar movement.
When Nixon was elected,
Excuse me, re-read your history. The draft was eliminated in two phases, the
first being the draft lottery, the second being outright elimination. US
personnel were restricted from direct combat operations in IndoChina by
the US Congress in 1971. The war in IndoChina did not end until the army
OK, maybe not nuts.
Glad to know you're not falling into the trap I feared.
At 07:06 24/02/04 -0500, you wrote:
Excuse me, re-read your history. The draft was eliminated in two phases, the
first being the draft lottery, the second being outright elimination. US
personnel were restricted from
Watch the rhetoric.
On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 12:49:30PM +0100, Robert Scott Gassler wrote:
Are you nuts? When has that kind of reverse strategy ever worked?
The Vietnam War was started when the draft was in place and ended after the
draft was abolished, which mitigates (though admittedly does
Subject: Re: dems, etc
snip
* For Immediate Release:
Wednesday, January 8, 2003
Contact: Andy Davis (202) 224-6654
Hollings Sponsors Bill to Reinstate Military Draft
Senator cites current heavy use of reserves and national guard, need
for shared sacrifice
WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Sen
Peter is correct here. Today we have an economic draft, so the middle
class is much less to complain about. In addition, the outsourcing of
military jobs obscures the human costs of war.
On Mon, Feb 23, 2004 at 11:30:43AM -0500, Peter Hollings wrote:
The mandatory service bill is a poison
- Original Message -
From: Peter Hollings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] dems, etc
The mandatory service bill is a poison pill. It will make unjustified war
unpopular and unsustainable.
Peter Hollings
dmschanoes wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Peter Hollings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] dems, etc
The mandatory service bill is a poison pill. It will make unjustified war
unpopular and unsustainable.
Disagree. Our work is not resisting the draft, it is carrying the class
struggle into the very heart of capital's military machine. That cannot be
done by resisting the draft.
The failure of the new left, in particular SDS, to move from anti-Vietnam
war, anti-draft, to anti-deferment, isolated
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/04 8:08 PM
Doug lives in New York:
* NEW YORK
BUSH 2,403,374 (35.2%)
GORE 4,107,697 (60.2%)
NADER 244,030 (3.6%)
OTEHRS 66,898 (1.0%)
http://www.presidentelect.org/e2000.html *
Joanna lives in California:
* CALIFORNIA
BUSH 4,567,429 (41.7%)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/04 8:08 PM
Doug lives in New York:
* NEW YORK
BUSH 2,403,374 (35.2%)
GORE 4,107,697 (60.2%)
NADER 244,030 (3.6%)
OTEHRS 66,898 (1.0%)
http://www.presidentelect.org/e2000.html *
Joanna lives in California:
* CALIFORNIA
BUSH 4,567,429 (41.7%)
Mike B wrote...
IMHO, the anti-war, anti-empire movement will grow
substantially if *everyone* in the mother country has
to face the existential consequences which go hand in
hand with the militarized maintenance of imperialism,
*not* just those desperate enough to sell their skills
to the
Dan Scanlan:
The best way to do that is to push from the left and don't vote for them.
Bush has a long way to go before he kills as many people in Iraq as
Clinton did, estimated at more than 1 million (compared to current
estimates of tens of thousands in this war segment).
I was thinking about
Title: Message
Well,
I am unsure that the system can be reformed from within. But, two initiatives
come to mind:
1)
Attempting to constrain the hegemonic American system from without through
popular initiatives (perhaps coordinated through the World Social Forum) to
boycott the products of
Louis Proyect wrote:
I was thinking about this stuff this morning. It occurs to me that
one of
the worst things about the anybody but Bush line of thinking,
especially
from self-described Marxists, is that it amounts to a Great Man theory of
history. You have national elections every four years
joanna bujes wrote:
I gag at the thought of voting for Kerry, but I will because I think
Bush and his gang are not merely reacting to the passing of the
post-war boom: I think they are looters and goons who will continue to
wreak destruction if re-elected.
I don't see a huge diff between dems and
--- Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
joanna bujes wrote:
I gag at the thought of voting for Kerry, but I
will because I think
Bush and his gang are not merely reacting to the
passing of the
post-war boom: I think they are looters and goons
who will continue to
wreak destruction if
Joanna Bujes:
I gag at the thought of voting for Kerry, but I will because I think
Bush and his gang are not merely reacting to the passing of the
post-war boom: I think they are looters and goons who will continue to
wreak destruction if re-elected.
Really? As Dan Scanlan pointed out, more Iraqis
joanna bujes wrote:
I gag at the thought of voting for Kerry, but I will because I think
Bush and his gang are not merely reacting to the passing of the
post-war boom: I think they are looters and goons who will continue to
wreak destruction if re-elected.
I don't see a huge diff between dems and
Lou wrote:
I don't see a huge diff between dems and repubs. BUT Kerry won't
privatize social security and won't make the judicial appointments that
the Bush gang will make. It's not much, but it's something. The dems
also set up different expectations for fairness and legality than do the
Good point. Here's another question my little sister asked me the other
day: If the popular vote doesn't mean anything, why do we vote?
Joanna
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
joanna bujes wrote:
I gag at the thought of voting for Kerry, but I will because I think
Bush and his gang are not merely
Good point. Here's another question my little sister asked me the
other day: If the popular vote doesn't mean anything, why do we
vote?
Joanna
The popular vote doesn't mean much, but voter registration work does.
While you are registering people to vote, you can hand out
information about local
: dems, etc
snip
* For Immediate Release:
Wednesday, January 8, 2003
Contact: Andy Davis (202) 224-6654
Hollings Sponsors Bill to Reinstate Military Draft
Senator cites current heavy use of reserves and national guard, need
for shared sacrifice
WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Sen. Fritz Hollings
: dems, etc
snip
* For Immediate Release:
Wednesday, January 8, 2003
Contact: Andy Davis (202) 224-6654
Hollings Sponsors Bill to Reinstate Military Draft
Senator cites current heavy use of reserves and
national guard, need
for shared sacrifice
WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Sen
--- Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good point. Here's another question my little
sister asked me the
other day: If the popular vote doesn't mean
anything, why do we
vote?
Joanna
The popular vote doesn't mean much, but voter
registration work does.
While you are registering
Right on, Ralph. If the chickenhawks want an empire, let them be
ready to send their own kids to battle for it. Lest we forget, it
was Nixon who got rid of the draft in favour of the all (poor
prole) volunteer military.
You see, that's why I think it will take a Democratic president to
reinstate
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
[clip] [quoting Doug]
Our revolutionary
maximalists don't like to hear that - for them, it's either all or
nothing.
Doug, you know damn well that all Yoshie and I have talked about on
these lists for a couple years concerns the best way of winning REFORMS,
NOW, inside
--- Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Right on, Ralph. If the chickenhawks want an
empire, let them be
ready to send their own kids to battle for it.
Lest we forget, it
was Nixon who got rid of the draft in favour of the
all (poor
prole) volunteer military.
You see, that's why I
Let's cool down.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 08:59:12PM -0600, Carrol Cox wrote:
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
[clip] [quoting Doug]
Our revolutionary
maximalists don't like to hear that - for them, it's either all or
nothing.
Doug, you know damn well that all Yoshie and I have talked about
Hollings in introducing the apparently identical companion draft
bill in the Senate? An anomaly?)
Ralph
- Original Message -
From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: dems, etc
Right on, Ralph
Hollings in introducing the apparently identical companion draft
bill in the Senate? An anomaly?)
Ralph
- Original Message -
From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: dems, etc
Right on, Ralph
- Original Message -
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
a week or so ago, Jim D. made the point with which I agree that some of
the Democrats
differ from the Republicans in that they take a larger time horizon.
Also, they can
represent different factions. Historically, the
, the tactical,
class-based reasons therefor. Is that not a relevant subject for discussion
here?
Ralph
- Original Message -
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: dems, etc
a week or so ago, Jim D. made the point
Michael P. writes:a week or so ago, Jim D. made the point with which I agree that
some of the Democrats
differ from the Republicans in that they take a larger time horizon. Also, they can
represent different factions. Historically, the Democrats favored Savings and Loans;
the Republicans,
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