En relación a [PEN-L:1459] Re: Imperialist progressivism (was R,
el 8 Sep 00, a las 4:46, Brad De Long dijo:
So Galtieri's strategy would have worked: the domestic opposition on
the left would have forgotten his crimes and thrown their support
behind his regime--if only he had won his
Vananda Shiva is kicking some fine butt! She's warning her WEF audience
that these protests will get uglier and uglier if smug suits don't stop
carelessly ridiculing dissidents. Capitalism, she says, is killing
democracy, and if they don't know that, the people outside bloody-well do.
Nice.
And now Joe Stiglitz is saying that 'it's the markets, stupid' was always a
gross simplification - that there were always bigger questions - the social
and the environmental. And that these 'fundamental values' were not to be
subsumed. Of course, commentary is all about how all we need is
LONDON (Reuters) - British troops and Sierra Leone rebels suffered
casualties on Sunday as British forces attacked a rebel base and freed six
of their soldiers who had been taken hostage, the chief of Britain's
defense staff said.
``There have been a few casualties on our side,'' Sir Charles
Brad DeLong wrote:
On the one hand, trees and hills. On the other hand, people. On what
theory of political justice can the first ever trump the second?
Well, Senator Albert Beveridge seemed to have a fairly firm grasp of one
such. I guess it depends on which people you are addressing.
En relación a [PEN-L:1675] Re: Re: Re: Aux armes citoyens! (was,
el 10 Sep 00, a las 18:22, Brad DeLong dijo:
What makes the Marseillaise "creepy" rather than "barbarous" is that
it spends more lines making it very clear what the stakes are--liberty
vs. tyranny--than it does calling for
En relación a [PEN-L:1684] Re: Re: Re: Re: A slight advantage o,
el 10 Sep 00, a las 21:53, Brad DeLong dijo:
the US government (which
also allied with the Argentine junta until the latter came into
conflict with the UK, a more important ally).
The Argentinian Junta never was
En relación a [PEN-L:1680] Re: Re: Thatcher and nationalism,
el 10 Sep 00, a las 21:13, Brad DeLong dijo:
(The internal structure
of Argentina is not the business of interlopers from the imperialist
world -- and interloping from alleged leftists is the worst of all).
Positively, totally,
Sure, I do. But the categories, models that I use to judge them are
periodically critiqued (usually about every four years). Reference to
Kristeva's work on science.
-Nico
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
Yes, I think I was trying to work out why and how the dialectical process
occurs that Kristeva talks about. Seems we need to reevaluate our criteria,
models, etc. for judgment occasionally. With the space/time compression it
is just happening more often. Does anyone know of any researchers
Jim: My argument is against the view that everybody's views represent
_nothing but_ subjective opinion.
With all the dead white men I have been studying it sure seems like it.
-Nico
_
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at
For every good example of ideology effecting science we can find horror
stories as well. Hitler's experiments come to mind.
-Nico
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Yoshie Furuhashi
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 1:34 AM
To:
After I read what follows, and which deserves no answer at all, I am
beginning to believe that I am not debating with Brad DeLong, but
with Spruille Braden DeLong. From now onwards, I will put things in
clear by addressing Mr. Braden DeLong...
En relación a [PEN-L:1685] Re: Canada,
Dear Michael,
I guess I have paid my debt with your list with the recent comments
on Díaz Alejandro's sack of rotten potatoes. Could you please unsub
me now, because I couldn't do it myself? I am already leaving home,
can't wait more.
A hug,
Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cullenberg et al:
And, again, this world
structured according to the object-life of the commodity has been thought
to have received an enormous recent boost by the emergence of new
information technologies, especially the internet. According to this view,
computers have made commodity time and
Lou
this was an extraordinarily interesting post for my particular
purposes. Here at Queensland University of Technology, the uni plus the
state govt have launched what they call the 'creative industries
initiative'. It parallels similar initiatives especially in Europe. The
State Govt
G'day Nestor and Brad,
Why do you slander the Argentinians, who were victims of Anglo-
American expoliation and thus had at least a reasonable motivation to
remain neutral, while you do not slander the Swiss or the Swedes?
Or the Americans? Whose own popular president (if you don't count the
They are difficult, although there is some nice stuff in them. Hard as it is, there is
some pretty language in the cahpter on commodity fetishism. The standard English
translations are not great--Moore 7 Aveling is very Victorian and not all that
accurate, and the new MECW slightly cleaned up
What does geography suggest that Alsace-Lorraine is part of, France or Germany? Or
more to the point today, East Jerusalem? --jks
In a message dated Mon, 11 Sep 2000 1:43:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Brad DeLong
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
For what they are worth, my views on the Malvinas are
The first time I tried to read Chapter One of Volume I, I kept falling
asleep. Over the years, as I have re-read the chapter and learned and
experienced other things, the chapter has become much more readable and
enjoyable. A distinguishing feature of literature is that it improves with
After I read what follows, and which deserves no answer at all, I am
beginning to believe that I am not debating with Brad DeLong, but
with Spruille Braden DeLong. From now onwards, I will put things in
clear by addressing Mr. Braden DeLong...
En relación a [PEN-L:1685] Re: Canada, Australia,
But Díaz Alejandro is... the ultimate sepoy, and it is
not a matter of chance that, in the economic circles of the United
States of America, the Braden DeLongs consider his 600 page long
bunch of half-muttered hardly digerible stupidities a "standard book"
on Argentina.
To argue that the
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Where did she make the claim? I don't know of any specific examples, but few
economists of his time had such experience.
This calumny is not novel. The earliest instance is Mitrany, David. Marx against the
peasant: a study in social dogmatism.
P.S.: Dierdre McCloskey was claiming this
Brad DeLong:
the end? Any other countries that received Nazi refugees with open
arms after the war? I'm not aware of any.
The Toronto Star, July 2, 1988, Saturday
U.S. recruitment of Nazis after war finally documented
By Donald C. MacDonald
Blowback
by Christopher Simpson
McClelland and
The Cleveland Plain Dealer, June 13, 1993 Sunday
A HISTORY OF A DIRTY WAR; PARAGUAY'S SECRET POLICE 'HORROR FILES' COME TO
LIGHT
By JACK EPSTEIN
ASUNCTION, PARAGUAY
Almada, a 55-year-old former school teacher, was arrested in 1974 for
"terrorism" and links with Paraguayan communists -
I wrote:
the US government (which
also allied with the Argentine junta until the latter came into
conflict with the UK, a more important ally).
Brad DeLong writes:
The Argentinian Junta never was *my* ally. But during the
Malvinas/Falklands War, it was Nestor's.
If you pay attention
At 10:25 PM 9/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
Any Labor government--hell, *any* democratic government or *any*
left-of-center non-democratic government--would have been eager to join
the war against Hitler. Peron was not--hence the classification of his
regime as "fascist South American overgrowth"
At 05:36 PM 9/11/00 +1100, you wrote:
Socially embedded markets or market-subordinated societies? That is the
question.
that's the question, not globalization pro con.
But the neoliberals aren't really fighting for market-subordinated society,
since in practice (as opposed to rhetoric), they
RE:
Has Dean Baker or anyone else done a detailed analysis of the impact of
"quality" adjustments to the last few years' productivity and output data?
It would be nice to have some sensitivity analysis...
Is the idea that price indexes understate the growth of quality (as claimed
by Boskin et
RE
They are difficult, although there is some nice stuff in them. Hard as it
is, there is some pretty language in the cahpter on commodity fetishism.
-- and --
The first few chapters of _Capital_. They *are* turgid and nearly
unreadable, in the standard English
I'm amazed that the literary qualities of even chap. 1 of Capital are
being called into question. Section 4 is one of Marx's most
deservedly famous passages, the analysis of commodity fetishism,
which blends political economy, pyschology, philosophy, and cultural
analysis in dazzling ways. As
At 07:55 PM 9/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
Dierdre McCloskey was claiming this morning that Marx had never visited
either a farm or a factory. Does anyone know of documented counterexamples?
maybe, but didn't his friend Fred manage a factory? If old Karlos didn't
have the time or resources to visit
Eric Nilsson wrote:
Is the idea that price indexes understate the growth of quality (as claimed
by Boskin et al)? And, if so, that productivity measures are understated
when using these (too rapidly growing) price indexes.
But little compelling evidence exists that quality improvements are
Néstor wrote:
(The internal structure of Argentina is not the business of interlopers
from the imperialist world -- and interloping from alleged leftists is
the worst of all).
Brad writes:
Positively, totally, utterly, completely nutso.
Michael, isn't this the kind of abusive rhetoric which
Jim Devine:
Michael, isn't this the kind of abusive rhetoric which gets people expelled
from pen-l. (NB: I'm not in favor of expelling anyone. If Brad doesn't
clean up his act, I encourage everyone to put him on their filter lists.)
I think it is okay if you are a Professor and edit a
Jim D. wrote:
At 07:55 PM 9/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
Dierdre McCloskey was claiming this morning that Marx had never
visited either a farm or a factory. Does anyone know of documented
counterexamples?
maybe, but didn't his friend Fred manage a factory? If old Karlos
didn't have the time or
Jim Devine wrote:
Michael, isn't this the kind of abusive rhetoric which gets people
expelled from pen-l. (NB: I'm not in favor of expelling anyone. If
Brad doesn't clean up his act, I encourage everyone to put him on
their filter lists.)
That seems a bit excessive. I was interested that
That seems a bit excessive. I was interested that Michael used the
word "provocative" as a pejorative the other day; what's wrong with a
little provocation now and then? Calling something "nutso" in the
context of a substantive post is different from a screenful of
personal abuse. It's useful
I agree with everything the Doug says here. I used the word "provocative"
to weasel out of saying something more precise.
Doug wrote
That seems a bit excessive. I was interested that Michael used the
word "provocative" as a pejorative the other day; what's wrong with a
little
Jim is correct. I am just ploughing through this debate. Brad goes overboard
again, although Nestor was giving almost as good as he got. Brad seems to have
appointed himself the defender of western civilization -- I noted another
reference to Kim Il Sung and frequent allusions to the Nazis.
Lionel Robbins complained: "We have all felt, with Professor
Schumpeter, a sense of almost shame at the incredible banalities of much
of the so-called theory of production -- the tedious discussions of
various forms of peasant proprietorship, factory, organization,
industrial psychology,
Doug wrote:
The price indexes for computers are truly
stunning, turning nominal increases of 5-10% into real increases of
50%. U.S. GDP growth without computers over the last year is 5.2%;
with, 5.7%. In the GDP accounts, final sales of computers grew $24
billion in nominal terms (99Q2-00Q2),
If you pay attention to the syntax of the parenthetical remark
above, it's very clear that I didn't say the AJ was your ally,
though your tax dollars were at work supporting it. The Reagan
administration brought in AJ gorillas to train the contras in the
war against Nicaragua, if I remember
so you believe that Eldridge Cleaver's old dictum that "if you're
not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"? So the fact
that the US was "neutral" against the Spanish fascists during the
Civil War there indicates that the US was semi-fascist?
Lots of people refused to aid or
I'm amazed that the literary qualities of even chap. 1 of Capital
are being called into question. Section 4 is one of Marx's most
deservedly famous passages, the analysis of commodity fetishism,
which blends political economy, pyschology, philosophy, and cultural
analysis in dazzling ways. As
Why do you slander the Argentinians, who were victims of Anglo-
American expoliation and thus had at least a reasonable motivation to
remain neutral, while you do not slander the Swiss or the Swedes?
Or the Americans? Whose own popular president (if you don't count the views
of the big cappos,
Brad DeLong wrote:
On the one hand, trees and hills. On the other hand, people. On what
theory of political justice can the first ever trump the second?
Well, Senator Albert Beveridge seemed to have a fairly firm grasp of one
such. I guess it depends on which people you are addressing.
The Argentinian Junta never was *my* ally. But during the
Malvinas/Falklands War, it was Nestor's.
The Argentinian Junta has never been an _ally_ of the imperialists,
Brad. They were your dutiful employees, the ones who cleared the way
for you and your ilk to transform Argentina into an
I beg your pardon but our industrial relations
people -- Eileen Appelbaum and Peter Berg --
have visited many factories, interviewing workers
and collecting data, for their research on workplace
organization.
mbs
Modern sociologists (like Michael Burawoy) visit factories. Economists
don't do
Well, this has been interesting...
It started, as you remember, with Nestor Miguel Gorojovsky's report of
..."outrageous
situations such as the one I recently saw at the elegant Sargento
Cabral square.
"This square is named after a semi-mythical character of early
Argentinian history, a
Brad DeLong wrote:
I'm amazed that the literary qualities of even chap. 1 of Capital
are being called into question. Section 4 is one of Marx's most
deservedly famous passages, the analysis of commodity fetishism,
which blends political economy, pyschology, philosophy, and cultural
[was: Re: [PEN-L:1724] Re: Re: Re: Re: Thatcher and nationalism ]
Doug wrote:
if we can't have a conversation with a bourgeois social democrat, we'll
really end up talking only to ourselves.
I totally agree, but I also think that standards of politeness should
apply to everyone equally.
There are numerous stories about groups of workers saving up money
together so that they could share a copy. The cigar makers used to have
Capital read to them when they worked.
In many case, I am sure that the workers understood it better than their
more educated superiors.
--
Michael
Does that work win the respect of "real" economists?
I beg your pardon but our industrial relations
people -- Eileen Appelbaum and Peter Berg --
have visited many factories, interviewing workers
and collecting data, for their research on workplace
organization.
mbs
Modern
I believe that the expression began with Montesquieu, who also believed
that slavery was natural in the production of sugar. I believe that
Voltaire may have had a hand in that industry as well. I don't have time
to check since I am now eating and typing and getting ready to leave town.
--
aah, but you don't understand. In the eyes of the Profession, those are
mere sociologists. And as the one of the key Party Ideologists, Paul
Krugman, has noted, they work for an organization filled with nothing but
hacks.
At 01:32 PM 9/11/00 -0400, you wrote:
I beg your pardon but our
Eric Nilsson wrote:
Doug wrote:
The price indexes for computers are truly
stunning, turning nominal increases of 5-10% into real increases of
50%. U.S. GDP growth without computers over the last year is 5.2%;
with, 5.7%. In the GDP accounts, final sales of computers grew $24
billion in nominal
Louis wrote that Peron paid off Argentina's foreign debt
Goodness! if a country isn't in debt to the US and other hard-currency
bankers, what leverage does the poor old IMF have?
Speaking of leverage, here's a quote from Krugman, in which he's describing
someone else's viewpoint:
"In
Doug wrote
No, it implicitly claims that stuff gets 5 to 10 times better over
the course of a year. 5-10% nominal inflates into 50% real.
/ / / / / / / /
This is crazy. This is what price/productivity data published by the
government (implicitly) says?
Eric
.
Eric Nilsson wrote:
Doug wrote
No, it implicitly claims that stuff gets 5 to 10 times better over
the course of a year. 5-10% nominal inflates into 50% real.
/ / / / / / / /
This is crazy. This is what price/productivity data published by the
government (implicitly) says?
See the spreadsheet
It takes mass struggle to end poverty
(from the Peoples Weekly World)
By Greg Godwin
A recent study entitled "Does a Rising Tide
Lift All Boats?" discredits the widely held belief that the highly celebrated economic
growth of the last decade has benefited working people as well as the rich.
For the people
(From the Peoples Weekly World)
By Arthur Perlo
If we think about economists at all, we usually think about Alan Greenspan, telling us
that we need higher unemployment for the good of the country. No wonder economics is
called the dismal science!
So it was a welcome change to
I wrote this for Monkeyfist.com, and I thought someone on this mailing list might be
interested in it. It describes a basic moral dilemma that confronts geeks and other
technically-minded folks.
Best,
Kendall Clark, The Monkeyfist Collective
Title: The Moral Life of Geeks
Abstract: In a
Brad DeLong:
Third, I am struck by the extent to which the debate here has
recapitulated an eighteenth-century debate--admirably exposited by
Albert Hirschman in his book _the Passions and the
Interests_--between Voltaire (and others) and Edmund Burke (and
others). Voltaire maintained--as I
Interesting that you should say this in a post that includes the title
Canada and Australia. I don't know about Australia but Canada joined the war
very early, in 1939 I believe.
Cheers, Ken Hanly
In fact, all countries except for two either (i) waited for Hitler to
bring the war to them, or
Lots of people refused to aid or tried to harm the Loyalist cause
during the Spanish Civil War (including, IMO, the Soviet Union--much
more interested in smashing Trotskyism than in defeating Franco).
IIRC, only four governments--Switzerland, Sweden, Franco's Spain, and
Peron's Argentina--had
Well, this confuses plainness and accessibility with literary mastery, which is the
question I raised. Lenin' stuff is plain and accessible, but not beautiful. Marx's is
often difficult, but generally beautiful. It has what he said in his early letter to
his dad was true of Hegel, a "grotesque
Hirschman's book is great. But if you look at the kind of contrasts
that doux commerce advocates tended to draw, they were between what they
saw as the innate civility of face-to-face market exchanges and what we
might *very* loosely call feudal manners -- relations of patronage and
sharp
Shane Mage quotes Brad DeLong:
Lots of people refused to aid or tried to harm the Loyalist cause
during the Spanish Civil War (including, IMO, the Soviet Union--much
more interested in smashing Trotskyism than in defeating Franco).
IIRC, only four governments--Switzerland, Sweden, Franco's
Doug wrote, first,
In the GDP accounts, final sales of computers
grew $24
billion in nominal terms (99Q2-00Q2), which was
inflated into $131
billion in real terms.
Then,
See the spreadsheet at
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/dn/comp-gdp.exe.
I looked at this spreadsheet. It is very hard to
follow
Oops.
RE
That is, 115 times 0.8 equals
about 141.
Obviously "115 divided by 0.8" makes a bit more
sense.
Eric
BLS DAILY REPORT, MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2000:
Economists have a term for a welfare recipient's will to stay employed
once that person has an opportunity to be self sufficient. It is
"hysteresis", says Carlos Tejada in "The Outlook" feature of The Wall
Street Journal (page 1). If these
Eric Nilsson wrote:
I looked at this spreadsheet. It is very hard to
follow as BEA did not clearly explain what the
numbers were but I have some vague ideas having
done something generally similar for different
types of data in the past.
Be that as it may, I see where you got your $24
nominal
[was: Re: [PEN-L:1756] Re: A slight advantage of poverty ]
Brad wrote: Voltaire maintained--as I do--the "doux commerce"
thesis: that capitalism tends to produce habits of thought that lead
people to pursue pleasure through consumption and pursue wealth
through production and exchange, and
From Brad to Nestor:
...Galtieri... discovered that in order to go ahead and win the war he had
to mobilize the most progressive forces in the country, he had to
organize a militant national front, he had to return the basic
control of economy to the hands of the State, he had to confront in
Brad wrote:
Third, I am struck by the extent to which the debate here has
recapitulated an eighteenth-century debate--admirably exposited by
Albert Hirschman in his book _the Passions and the
Interests_--between Voltaire (and others) and Edmund Burke (and
others). Voltaire maintained--as I
At 07:59 11/09/00 +0100, I wrote:
This incident is mainly a warning to Britain about the limits of its
power. The raid was a sign of weakness:- it faced losing its troops still
kept as hostages, and public opinion growing doubtful again about this
whole expedition.
As if to confirm this
Hi Jim and Doug,
Brad writes:
Positively, totally, utterly, completely nutso.
Michael, isn't this the kind of abusive rhetoric which gets people expelled
from pen-l. (NB: I'm not in favor of expelling anyone. If Brad doesn't
clean up his act, I encourage everyone to put him on their filter
Jim D. wrote:
At 10:25 PM 9/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
Any Labor government--hell, *any* democratic government or *any*
left-of-center non-democratic government--would have been eager to
join the war against Hitler. Peron was not--hence the
classification of his regime as "fascist South American
... LBJ Nixon had to adopt some progressive domestic policy stances in
order to continue the wars abroad while deflecting coopting the domestic
challenges to inequality. As Machiavelli noted, the Prince can't afford
to fight two wars (at home abroad) at the same time. When the Prince
Doug wrote
But why can't I compare the 24 with the
131? They're both aggregates,
and the comparison shows that some
massive inflation of nominal
values is going on to produce the real values.
These things get truly preposterous
over the long term - nominal
spending on computers grew 143%
It would be interesting to get validation that Marx never had first-hand experience
with farms or factories. I don't like his
writings on agriculture particularly, but Marx' work on the reorganization of
production during the industrial revolution is
truly top-notch -- some of the finest
Peter Dorman wrote:
He has also pointed out
that quality *declines* (such as in air travel) have not been taken into
account.
They are in the airfare component of the CPI, which has risen at
twice the rate of overall inflation, as one-stops replaced nonstops,
advance purchase requirements
The book you're thinking of is LA REVOLUTION SOCIALISTE by Serge-Christophe
Kolm. I read the first half of it back when it came out. He felt that
revolutionizing production (via self-management) was more appropriate than
revolutionizing consumption (via expansion of the welfare state) -- better
Not sure what the BLS does with quality declines in air travel. The airfare
component has risen much faster that the total CPI over the last twenty years.
They are adjusting something.
Gene
Peter Dorman wrote:
Dean's argument is that BLS quality adjustments in the computer industry are
much
At 04:26 PM 9/11/00 -0700, you wrote:
It would be interesting to get validation that Marx never had first-hand
experience with farms or factories. I
This reminded me of something that I forgot to bring up. It was mentioned
that the sociologist Buroway worked in a factory to get first-hand
Like lots of folks on pen-l, I worked in factories and such not to gain
enlightenment but to make money. True, I ended up learning some useful
lessons (some of which can't be found in books), but if I were independently
wealthy and had spent all that time reading instead, I probably would have
Hirschman's book is great. But if you look at the kind of contrasts
that doux commerce advocates tended to draw, they were between what they
saw as the innate civility of face-to-face market exchanges and what we
might *very* loosely call feudal manners -- relations of patronage and
sharp
Néstor wrote:
(The internal structure of Argentina is not the business of
interlopers from the imperialist world -- and interloping from
alleged leftists is the worst of all).
Brad writes:
Positively, totally, utterly, completely nutso.
Michael, isn't this the kind of abusive rhetoric which
Jim D. wrote:
At 07:55 PM 9/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
Dierdre McCloskey was claiming this morning that Marx had never
visited either a farm or a factory. Does anyone know of documented
counterexamples?
maybe, but didn't his friend Fred manage a factory? If old Karlos
didn't have the time or
The government of Juan Perón was one of the most progressive in Latin
American history in the 20th century. Here is a list of its accomplishments:
1. Taking advantage of government leniency if not outright support, trade
unions were formed in every industry.
2. Social security was made
Hope no one else posted this and I missed it.
Cheers, Ken Hanly
Speech given by Fidel Castro Ruz, first secretary of the Central
Committee of the Communist Party of Cuba, at the Millennium Summit,
United Nations, New York, on September 6, 2000, Year of the 40th
Anniversary of 'Patria O
Shane Mage quotes Brad DeLong:
Lots of people refused to aid or tried to harm the Loyalist cause
during the Spanish Civil War (including, IMO, the Soviet Union--much
more interested in smashing Trotskyism than in defeating Franco).
IIRC, only four governments--Switzerland, Sweden,
Brad DeLong wrote:
I'm amazed that the literary qualities of even chap. 1 of Capital
are being called into question. Section 4 is one of Marx's most
deservedly famous passages, the analysis of commodity fetishism,
which blends political economy, pyschology, philosophy, and
cultural analysis
Interesting that you should say this in a post that includes the title
Canada and Australia. I don't know about Australia but Canada joined the war
very early, in 1939 I believe.
Cheers, Ken Hanly
Touche... All the dominions did...
Brad DeLong
--
J. Bradford DeLong
Professor of
Paris, Tuesday, September 12, 2000
[this one raises the specter of that age old social science question: do
events in history refute a hypothesis? full article
http://www.iht.com/IHT/TODAY/TUE/FIN/hot.2.html ]
U.S. Options Exchanges Censured in Competition Suit
The Associated Press
At 07:59 11/09/00 +0100, Chris Burford wrote:
This incident is mainly a warning to Britain about the limits of its
power. The raid was a sign of weakness:- it faced losing its troops still
kept as hostages, and public opinion growing doubtful again about this
whole expedition.
But is it not equally our business what the US does to bomb, kill
and maim civilians and children in Columbia, Yugoslavia, Iraq etc.
etc. not also our business, particularly when it is done by the very
people that Brad calls "us".
Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba
But the
I think most of the larger British Commonwealth countries declared war
around September 1939, at least Australia and Canada did.
Casualties:(approximate)
India 25,000
New Zealand 10,000
Canada 37,000
South Africa 7,000
Australia 23,000
Cheers,
Ken Hanly
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