The wonders of the internet. Here is Sowell explaining his shift away from Marxism:
http://www.salon.com/books/int/1999/11/10/sowell/index1.html
David Shemano
David Shemano said:
The wonders of the internet. Here is Sowell explaining his shift away
from Marxism: http://www.salon.com/books/int/1999/11/10/sowell/index1.html
David Shemano
From that interview:
So you were a lefty once.
Through the decade of my 20s, I was a Marxist.
What made you
If people don't know, Zinoviev was author of the Yawning Heights and Homo Sovieticus, a former Cold War dissident exiled from the Soviet Union and went gonzo anti-Communist.
pravda.ruJune 30, 2004Triumphant vengeancePhilosopher Alexander Zinoviev considers that the West regained its powerthanks
Gerry Cohen wrote a lot about this. I can't remember which side he came
down on, but he certainly agreed with David that you have to be very careful
in using the language of theft when talking about capitalist surplus-value
or you end up basically legitimating a whole lot of property rights-talk
Ken Hanly wrote:
What is assumed as just is that a
person should be able to appropriate the value of what they produce
through
their labor and that private property in the means of production makes
this
impossible and so is inherently unjust.
The ultimate idea of right that Marx defends is from
LA Weekly, July 2-8, 2004
Corporate Kerry
The senator comes to California for the rich persons vote and dollars
by Howard Blume
The battle for the White House looks a lot like class war when union
leaders call Bush an SOB, and the Bush administration lets corporate
lobbyists rewrite the laws
Underclass of Workers Created in Iraq
Many Foreign Laborers Receive Inferior Pay, Food and Shelter
By Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 1, 2004; Page A01
KOLLAM, India -- The war in Iraq has been a windfall for Kellogg Brown
Root Inc., the company that has a
(The liberal crusade against Ralph Nader continues unabated despite the
victory of David Kerry Cobb. This is from salon.com, a wretched online
publication that serves as a tag-team partner for the Nation Magazine in
policing the left.)
The dark side of Ralph Nader
He's made a career of railing
Aloha, [see PS below]
I thought you would be interested in my latest attempt to communicate as
broadly as possible that promoting democratic freedom is our best
solution to eliminating war, democide, and famine. I have written an
alternative history series that will ultimately involve six novels
On Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 20:16:01 (-0700) Michael Perelman writes:
Does anybody on the list know how to contact him?
kolko [at] counterpunch.org?
He's at York University (yorku.ca) so you could also try kolko or
gkolko [at] yorku.ca.
Bill
The
wonders of the Internet. Here is Sowell explaining his shift away from
Marxism:
http://www.salon.com/books/int/1999/11/10/sowell/index1.htmlDavid
Shemano
Comment
Mr. Sowell is of course no one fool or "boy" . . . and
most certainly not an Uncle Tom . . . a characterization
Louis wrote:
You may be a great economist, but sometimes you suck
as a moderator.
Respectfully, I have to disagree. Michael is an excellent moderator.
Michael does something akin to actual life: keep differing ideas in
contact, because there is something that comes out of it that's better
than
This is an utter disgrace that so few peopleon pen-l would take a stand against this.
--
It's much more of an utter disgrace that some people on pen-l would repond to ethnographic data, links to entire books, and references to scholarly articles with vague and totally unsubstantiated analogies,
Kenneth Campbell wrote:
Respectfully, I have to disagree. Michael is an excellent moderator.
Michael does something akin to actual life: keep differing ideas in
contact, because there is something that comes out of it that's better
than the sectarianism Jim mentioned in a separate thread.
Yes,
From now on, I will refrain from commenting on Chris Doss's posts. I
respect the fact that not everybody on pen-l is a socialist or a
radical. Furthermore, I believe that I said everything I have had to say
on Putin and Chechnya at this point.
--
The Marxism list: www.marxmail.org
If folks in California want to act on this, reply to me I will send along
contact info for the folks in California who are organizing it.
Worth reading. They appear to have a smoking gun on AFL/ACILS collusion in
preparatory events for the coup and AFL lying about it to their members in
The US has never pulled out of the Kellogg-Briand pact of 1928 (or 1929?), which
banned war as a tool of foreign policy. So, as in WW2, it waits until the other guy
declares war (as Hitler did), or simply organizes a police action.
jd
-Original Message-
From: PEN-L list
STORM: Someone said propaganda. Do you buy that? Op-ed?
Mr. MOORE: No, I consider the CBS Evening News propaganda.
STORM: Well, we'll--we'll--we'll move beyond that.
Mr. MOORE: What I do is providing--why? Let's not move beyond that. Let's...
STORM: You know what?
Mr. MOORE: No, well--well,
or simply organizes a police action.
jd
That's why Washington loves the rhetoric of the war on drugs and
the war on terrorism, casting the ostensible targets of military
force as crimes.
--
Yoshie
* Critical Montages: http://montages.blogspot.com/
* Bring Them Home Now!
Yes, and even when they are on the right side, it must be a war. War on Poverty, War
on Cancer, but no War
on War.
On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 11:04:46AM -0400, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
That's why Washington loves the rhetoric of the war on drugs and
the war on terrorism, casting the ostensible
Kenneth Campbell wrote:
Respectfully, I have to disagree. Michael is an excellent moderator.
Michael does something akin to actual life: keep differing ideas in
contact, because there is something that comes out of it that's better
than the sectarianism Jim mentioned in a separate thread.
I am
Monthly Review, July-August 2004
Introduction: China and Socialism
by Martin Hart-Landsberg and Paul Burkett
China and socialism...during the three decades following the 1949
establishment of the Peoples Republic of
(cited in Harry Magdoff and John Bellamy Foster's introduction to
Burkett Hart-Landsberg)
Harvard Asia Quarterly
Interview with Elizabeth Economy
Chinas Development and the Environment
BY HAQ Staff
Elizabeth Economy is C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and Director, Asia
Studies, at the Council on
This excerpt provided by Waistline echoes the crap William F. Buckley
routinely put out in the past. I recall Buckley once pointing out that
minorities chose to go into song and dance as a career path, rather
than, say, medicine. He applauded the freedom of choice. Simple lying
economics.
In a message dated 7/1/2004 8:28:43 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Mr.
Sowell is of course no one fool or "boy" . . . and most certainly not an
Uncle Tom . . . a characterization that can mean virtually anything
depending on usage.
Comment - Follow up
There
I suspect that the Sowell thread is exhausting itself into repetition, but he did make
me think about the
program that Doug did with Bhagwhati. Each time this renowned economist gave a
simplistic answer to Doug's
question, he would giggle. His giggles gave me the same sort of feeling that
Grant Lee wrote:
The wonders of the internet. Here is Sowell explaining his shift away
from Marxism: http://www.salon.com/books/int/1999/11/10/sowell/index1.html
David Shemano
From that interview:
So you were a lefty once.
Through the decade of my 20s, I was a Marxist.
What made you turn
Doug asked:
So how is incompatible with Marxism that raising wages above market
levels can reduce employment? He just decided that the living
conditions of sugar workers were less important than the needs of
the economy.
Like some present-day socialists, he seems to thinks that using
Michael Perelman wrote:
I suspect that the Sowell thread is exhausting itself into
repetition, but he did make me think about the
program that Doug did with Bhagwhati. Each time this renowned
economist gave a simplistic answer to Doug's
question, he would giggle.
I was kind in the editing, and
Prezados amigos
Segue, em anexo, a chamada de
trabalhos do IV Colquio Latino Americano de Economistas Polticos.
Peo a gentileza de divulgarem para todos os interessados,
principalmente informando na lista que frequentam.
Rosa Maria Marques
IV Coloquio - Chamada de Trabalhos.doc
Exactly! One wonders how anyone with even a minimal understanding of Marxism
would think this somehow showed its shortcomings. At the same time the
conclusion that minimum wages necessarily lead to greater unemployment is
surely not that evident nor does this example show that to be the case. Are
[See comment at end]
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/01/pageoneplus/corrections.html
The New York Times
July 1, 2004
Corrections
A n article yesterday about Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassoun, the American
marine held by kidnappers in Iraq, quoted incompletely from a comment
by a cousin of his in
Maybe they could save space by having a small section of the paper reprinting the
material that did not need
to be retracted.
On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 12:54:46PM -0400, Michael Pollak wrote:
They should create a new section entitled Retractions.
Michael
--
Michael Perelman
Economics
In a message dated 7/1/2004 11:30:37 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So
how is incompatible with Marxism that raising wages above market
levels can reduce employment? He just decided that the living
conditions of sugar workers were less important than the needs of
From: Michael Pollak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[See comment at end]
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/01/pageoneplus/corrections.html
The New York Times
July 1, 2004
Corrections
... As Eric Umansky of Todays Papers points out, this correction fails to
mention the tiny bit of context that his purported
Airline Unions Refuse to Transport Troops to Iraq
The labor unions of the nations two airliners, Korean Air and
Asiana Airlines, declared Thursday that they refuse to transport
anything related to the troop dispatch to Iraq, including Korean
soldiers to be stationed in Iraq along
Doug Henwood writes (and others agree)
What made you turn around?
What began to change my mind was working in the summer of 1960 as an intern
in the federal government, studying minimum-wage laws in Puerto Rico. It was
painfully clear that as they pushed up minimum wage levels, which they
David wrote:
The relevant factor wasn't that minimum wage laws (not raising wages)
reduce employment. It was the reaction of the government bureaucrats to
his suggestion of an empirical test to determine why employment was
falling, which led him to philosophically shift from the importance of
From: David B. Shemano [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BTW, the Reason review of Doug Henwood's book is now online:
http://www.reason.com/0406/cr.co.that.shtml
Well that was two minutes wasted. I'd suggest that Reason critic Charles
Oliver hold onto his day job, in which he covers local government for The
David B. Shemano wrote:
The argument that capitalism is legalized fraud and theft
is a very interesting thesis which I would love to explore. (For
instance, doesn't that statement, as a normative statement, assume
the justness of private property, because if not, what is wrong with
theft?).
k hanly wrote:
What is assumed as just is that a
person should be able to appropriate the value of what they produce through
their labor...
naive question: does this not assume that the person produces (through
his labour) in a vacuum? aren't a whole slew of living and non-living
things whose
Nike just sent me a large packet c/o my publisher describing all the wonderful
corporate responsibility activities that they support. Very slick indeed.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Michael Perelman wrote:
Nike just sent me a large packet c/o my publisher describing all the wonderful
corporate responsibility activities that they support. Very slick indeed.
There's so much attention on them now that they may indeed behave
better than other shoe and garment makers.
Doug
Michael Perelman wrote:
Nike just sent me a large packet c/o my publisher describing all the wonderful
corporate responsibility activities that they support. Very slick indeed.
hmmm... air perelman... doesn't sound bad... ;-)
--ravi
It would if you saw how badly I play.
On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 04:04:03PM -0400, ravi wrote:
Michael Perelman wrote:
Nike just sent me a large packet c/o my publisher describing all the wonderful
corporate responsibility activities that they support. Very slick indeed.
hmmm... air
John Locke wrote that such stealing of public property was the basis of private
property -- but that such theft was justified if one mixed one's labor with the stolen
item.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
-Original
Apropos of the discussion on SOwell, I add the following from Greg Mahoney
at GWU
David Barkin
MEXICO
-- Forwarded Message ---
From: gmahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 14:00:56 -0400
Subject: RE: more on s.
Have you ever seen Sowells book,
It is worse that Jim says: Thus the Grass my Horse has bit; the Turfs my Servant has
cut; and the Ore I have digg'd ... become my Property (Locke 1698, p. 307),
On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 01:39:27PM -0700, Devine, James wrote:
John Locke wrote that such stealing of public property was the basis of
Thursday, July 01, 2004
Green Strategy 2004-2008
How did the David Cobb/Pat LaMarche ticket receive the Green Party
nomination? And what does it mean for the Green Party in particular
and American politics in general? My conclusion is that the so-called
red states Greens, by rejecting Ralph
from his column on why journalists should study economics, one thing that strikes me
as defining Sowell as a hack is that his approach is so _a priori_. He doesn't have
to study _why_ black youth unemployment was so low during World War II. Instead, he
_knows_ that it was because the
you don't understand Locke. He didn't think of his servant as a human being, so that
the servant's labor didn't produce property for her (according to Locke's labor theory
of property). Instead, she was like Locke's horse.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Michael P wrote:
It is worse that Jim says: Thus the Grass my Horse has bit; the Turfs
my Servant has cut; and the Ore I have digg'd ... become my Property
(Locke 1698, p. 307),
On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 01:39:27PM -0700, Devine, James wrote:
John Locke wrote that such stealing of public property
Smith (III.v,12, 362) even lumped together labouring cattle and productive
labourers in his description of a world dominated by stock.
On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 01:59:41PM -0700, Devine, James wrote:
you don't understand Locke. He didn't think of his servant as a human being, so that
the
Jim C. writes:
Since so much of primitive
accumulation of original capitalist property that formed the foundations
of present-day property and gains is not gained through any just war,
discovery, or sale/gift/bequest of legally titled property, capitalist
property continues to be tainted and
Devine, James wrote:
you don't understand Locke. He didn't think of his servant as a human being, so that
the servant's labor didn't produce property for her (according to Locke's labor
theory of property). Instead, she was like Locke's horse.
This is misleading. Until the millenia-old
ravi wrote:
can we define such a thing as public property? i.e., something that
belongs (i would prefer 'open' or 'available' to 'belong') to everyone
(all species)? if so, anyone appropriating such property for personal
use, excluding access to othres, could be said to be committing
k hanly wrote:
... the conclusion that minimum wages necessarily lead to greater
unemployment is surely not that evident...
Indeed. Under rigorous neoclassical analysis it is easily demonstrated
that under monopsonistic or monopsonistically competitive labor
market conditions (ie., where the
see http://www.brookings.edu/fp/saban/iraq/index.pdf for one compilation
of stats on Iraq.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
For what it's worth...
I saw Hussein on TV this morn, and Peter Jennings did an excellent job
of old Murrow-style radio reporting... describing scenes without the aid
of a TV camera. Jennings described a beaten down man, thin, polite,
alert, tangling with the judge once.
I have since seen the
Shane Mage writes:Under rigorous neoclassical analysis it is easily
demonstrated
of course, rigorous neoclassical analysis is not the same as the
Chicago-school neoclassical analysis embraced by Sowell. For the latter,
rigorous refers to free market.
jd
Jim Devine
It, the rise in wages, is not incompatible with increasing unemployment, but
neither is it incompatible with rising employment. Sowell, or whoever wants
to argue this point from the right, makes a superficial cause and effect
between wage rates and employment levels, where there is none.
And by
Mr. Sartesian writes:
It, the rise in wages, is not incompatible with increasing unemployment, but
neither is it incompatible with rising employment. Sowell, or whoever wants
to argue this point from the right, makes a superficial cause and effect
between wage rates and employment levels,
I appreciate the distinction between rising wages and minimum wages,
David. Thanks.
Now that I got that off my chest, I am off to see Simon and
Garfunkel at the Hollywood Bowl. When I get back, how about a
discussion of explaining the price of concert tickets from a
Marxist perspective?
People
Perhaps in a further step down the road to Perdition after his
Victoria's Secret commercial, the following appeared on the Fed of
Cleveland's web-site:
The Rates They Are A-changin'
(with apologies to Bob Dylan)
Come gather 'round people wherever you roam
Recognize that inflation around you has
Mr. Shemano asks:
how about a discussion of explaining the price of concert tickets from a Marxist
perspective?
individual prices can't be explained or predicted using Marx's labor theory of value
(more accurately, the law of value). Regular micro will do (though not the Chicago
variant).
The ABB press has been working overtime this week to construct an
amalgam between Nader, Pat Buchanan and other dark forces. Meanwhile, I
predict that the following will garner not even a shrug.
Kerry: No licenses for illegal immigrants
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Znet.org
The Problem is Bigger than the Bushes
Reviewing Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11
by Stephen Rosenthal and Junaid Ahmad, July 1, 2004
(clip)
Fahrenheit 9/11 begins with an implicit indictment of both Republicans
and Democrats and ends with an implicit indictment of the system of
Kenneth Campbell wrote:
The Marxist perspective might be that this is a false consciousness and
wishing for the days of old ideologies (Santa Claus etc)... and people
pay money for it because it eases their feelings of being less than they
had thought they were (socially speaking). ? Ya
He has to be running the dummest campaign in history. Even Bush knows that the
Hispanic vote is important.
On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 10:00:23PM -0400, Louis Proyect wrote:
The ABB press has been working overtime this week to construct an
amalgam between Nader, Pat Buchanan and other dark forces.
All the time.
I suspect that the Sowell thread is exhausting itself into repetition, but he did
make me think about the
program that Doug did with Bhagwhati. Each time this renowned economist gave a
simplistic answer to Doug's
question, he would giggle. His giggles gave me the same sort of
James Devine wrote:
Shane Mage writes:Under rigorous neoclassical analysis it is easily
demonstrated
of course, rigorous neoclassical analysis is not the same as the
Chicago-school neoclassical analysis embraced by Sowell. For the latter,
rigorous refers to free market.
I don't know about Sowell,
That, the distinction between minimum wage laws, and a rising minimum wage,
is sophistry, not analysis. If you can't see the identity between the two,
it's only because your analysis is completely pedantic and lacks the
critical, social, element, that places Marx head and shoulders above, and
And one more time: The argument that is made and couched in pseudo-economic
terms, is not an argument, but an ideology where any mandatory increase in
benefits to the dispossessed is blamed for the eventual increase in social
misery. It is nothing but the argument for laissez-faire increases in
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