Does that mean we can nuke Redmond and move on to reality in corporate IS
now?
That must never happen. It can be stopped. It must be stopped. It will be
stopped.
(except for the Redmond part, which I suspect might be a bit hard on
*their* eyes)
Hillary
You're nothing if not dramatic.
--
I happen to like $ and @. They're not going away in standard Perl as
long as I have anything to do with it. Nevertheless, my vision for Perl
is that it enable people to do what *they* want, not what I want.
Larry
If only that were true...But it isn't true. It was never true. And you
knew
My apologies if the following has already been suggested.
I know Larry said the colon was his, but presumably he's
not talking about the double colon, as currently used as a
package name separator, right?
What if:
use Foo::Bar qw/ qux waldo /;
can be written:
use Foo::Bar :: qux
Just a quick obeservation:
Given the radicalness of the changes suggested by apo 2, I think it's
fair to say that the proportion of Perl 5 code that will run unchanged
on a Perl 6 interpreter will be heading into single-figure percentages.
While I personally think this will be price well worth
Larry:
Currently, @ and [] are a promise that you don't intend to use string
indexing on this variable. The optimizer can make good use of this
information. For non-tied arrays of compact intrinsic types, this
is going to be a major performance win in Perl 6.
Assuming that optimization
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:19:10AM +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
to be such that the writing of the Perl 5 to 6 translator utility is
still feasable.
If you're at TPC this year, you'll hear me how explain how translators
*far* weirder than simply Perl 5 to Perl 6 are possible. :)
Briefly: We
-Original Message-
From: Simon Cozens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:01 AM
To: Dave Mitchell
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The 5% solution
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:19:10AM +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
to be such that the writing of the Perl 5 to
(apologies if this is a duplicate - I think my last post has gotten lost).
The RFC pleads for a community spirit from ORA. Barring that, it seeks
a new symbol for the community entirely
I'd suggest a mongoose - eats poisonous snakes for breakfast.
There's a sort of tie-in with Perl Mongers
/me likes. /me likes a lot.
David T. Grove
Blue Square Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Dave Hartnoll [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Apoc2 - STDIN concerns : new mascot?
Briefly: We want the Perl 6 runtime to be an equivalent of the Microsoft
CLR, so that if you can somehow get bytecode onto it - from whatever
language - you can run it. So we've got some bytecode that perl can run.
Now think about what B::Deparse does.
I knew the intention was to go the
Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Me writes:
: Larry:
: Currently, @ and [] are a promise that you don't intend to use string
: indexing on this variable. The optimizer can make good use of this
: information. For non-tied arrays of compact intrinsic types, this
: is going to be a
Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different operators for
strings than for numbers. Dictionaries and calculators have very
different interfaces in the real world, and it's false economy to
overgeneralize. Witness the travails of people trying to use
cell phones to type
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Larry Wall wrote:
In this view, * and could just be two different kinds of expandable flags.
But I'm uncomfortable with that, because I'd like to be able to say
lazy_sub($STDIN, $STDIN, $STDIN, $STDIN)
to feed four lines to lazy_sub without defeating the
Dave Mitchell writes:
: Content-MD5: FiIz8m/ma8enU5CTBqhsQw==
: X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4.2 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc
: X-Spam-Rating: onion.valueclick.com 1.6.2 0/1000/N
:
:
: Briefly: We want the Perl 6 runtime to be an equivalent of the Microsoft
: CLR, so that if you can
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Me wrote:
yes?
And, despite perl5's use of no as the opposite
of use, and given that there may be no use in
perl6 (;), and thus perhaps no no, (on and off?),
then maybe no could be used as not yes?
no?
Your Honor, I would like to stipulate that that
Dave Storrs wrote:
*4$STDIN # Next 4 lines
*$num_lines$STDIN # Numifies $num_lines, gets that many
*int rand(6)$STDIN # Gets 0-5 lines
*mySub($bar)$STDIN# mySub returns num, gets that many
Shades of printf...
--
John Porter
At 08:40 AM 5/10/2001 -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
Dave Mitchell writes:
: Content-MD5: FiIz8m/ma8enU5CTBqhsQw==
: X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4.2 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc
: X-Spam-Rating: onion.valueclick.com 1.6.2 0/1000/N
:
:
: Briefly: We want the Perl 6 runtime to be an equivalent of
On Fri, 4 May 2001 18:20:52 -0700 (PDT), Larry Wall wrote:
: love. I'd expect $FOO.readln (or something less Pascalish) to do an
: explicit readline to a variable other than $_
It would be $FOO.next, but yes, that's the basic idea. It's possible
that iterator variables should be more
Dave Storrs writes:
: You know, it would be really cool if you specify the number of
: lines you wanted like so:
:
: $STDIN # One line
: *$STDIN# All available lines
: *4$STDIN # Next 4 lines
:
: Or even:
:
:
Larry Wall wrote:
: do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different operators for
strings than for numbers.
Different operators, conflated data type.
That's what we have for scalars already.
Makes sense to have it
-Original Message-
From: John Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 11:58 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: what I meant about hungarian notation
Larry Wall wrote:
: do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
Nope, I still
Dan Sugalski writes:
: At 08:40 AM 5/10/2001 -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
: Dave Mitchell writes:
: : Content-MD5: FiIz8m/ma8enU5CTBqhsQw==
: : X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4.2 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc
: : X-Spam-Rating: onion.valueclick.com 1.6.2 0/1000/N
: :
: :
: : Briefly: We want the
At 05:56 PM 5/10/2001 +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
On Fri, 4 May 2001 18:20:52 -0700 (PDT), Larry Wall wrote:
: love. I'd expect $FOO.readln (or something less Pascalish) to do an
: explicit readline to a variable other than $_
It would be $FOO.next, but yes, that's the basic idea. It's
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 05:56:41PM +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
People are *very much* familiar with reading a line from a file. People
may steer clear from a language because it deeply relies on exotic stuff
like iterators.
...
What you could do, is treat an iterator as something similar to
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 08:40:52AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
Dave Mitchell writes:
: Briefly: We want the Perl 6 runtime to be an equivalent of the Microsoft
: CLR, so that if you can somehow get bytecode onto it - from whatever
: language - you can run it. So we've got some bytecode that
Simon Cozens writes:
: If you can somehow get bytecode onto Perl 6 - which you'll
: need to do with an alternate parser - you can then use the Perl 6 equivalent
: of B::Deparse to spit out Perl 6.
At some point it would have to be annotated with formatting and comment
info, though. Somebody
John Porter wrote:
Larry Wall wrote:
: do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different operators for
strings than for numbers.
Different operators, conflated data type.
That's what we have for scalars already.
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:43:13PM -0500, David L. Nicol wrote:
John Porter wrote:
Larry Wall wrote:
: do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different operators for
strings than for numbers.
Different
The RFC pleads for a community spirit from ORA. Barring that, it seeks a
new
symbol for the community entirely
I'd suggest a mongoose - eats poisonous snakes for breakfast.
There's a sort of tie-in with Perl Mongers == Perl Mongoose as well :-)
Dave.
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:51:25PM -0500, Garrett Goebel wrote:
I'll say it again for the l^W^W^W - arrays and hashes are conceptually
very different beasts.
strings, integers, longs, and floats are conceptually very different beasts.
No, not really. Integers, longs and floats are all
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:55:36AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
If you talk that way, people are going to start believing it.
[snip]
Some of us are are talking that way because we already
beleive it. You can't make the transition from Attic
Greek to Koine without
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:13:13PM -0700, David Goehrig wrote:
Some of us are are talking that way because we already
beleive it. You can't make the transition from Attic
Greek to Koine without changing how people fundamentally
view their language.
Oh, hyperbole!
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 08:22:17PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
Oh, hyperbole! It's more like going from Katharevousa to Demotic.
(To pre-empt Philip Newton: Yes, I know, but going the other way wouldn't
have sounded like an advancement.)
--
An algorithm must be seen to be believed.
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:13:13PM -0700, David Goehrig wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:55:36AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
If you talk that way, people are going to start believing it.
[snip]
Some of us are are talking that way because we already
beleive it. You can't make
On (03 May 2001 10:23:15 +0300) you wrote:
Michael Schwern:
Would be neat if: my($first) = grep {...} @list; knew to stop itself, yes.
It also reminds me of mjd's mention of: my($first) = sort {...} @list;
being O(n) if Perl were really Lazy.
But it would need a completely
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:55:36AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
If you talk that way, people are going to start believing it.
[snip]
Some of us are are talking that way because we already
beleive it. You can't make the transition from Attic
Greek to Koine without changing
-Original Message-
From: Adam Turoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 3:31 PM
To: David Goehrig
Cc: Larry Wall; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Perl, the new generation
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:13:13PM -0700, David Goehrig wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 09:43:34AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
Peter Scott writes:
: So, I wonder aloud, do we want to signify that degree of change with a more
: dramatic change in the name?
I'm inclined to think that people will be more likely to migrate if
they subconsciously think we're
From: Simon Cozens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:57:54AM -0400, John Porter wrote:
Makes sense to have it for containers indexed by scalar as well.
I'll say it again for the l^W^W^W - arrays and hashes are conceptually
very different beasts.
strings,
: Assuming that optimization opportunities remained intact,
They won't, but go on.
Because the syntax won't provide the compiler enough info?
: do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different
operators for strings
On Thu, 10 May 2001, David Grove wrote:
The changes are beautiful. It's calling it Perl and relying on subliminal
pursuasion to ask users to consider it the same that bothers me. That's a
very Microsoftish tactic.
No, it's Perl 6. If you want Perl 5 or even Perl 4 you know where
to find it.
There have been multiple mentions of the fact that we intend to have safe
signals in Perl 6. I was wondering if it will also be possible to have
more than one alarm() set at a time, or some other mechanism for having
multiple pending signals.
Dave
Edward Peschko writes:
: On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 09:43:34AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
: Peter Scott writes:
: : So, I wonder aloud, do we want to signify that degree of change with a more
: : dramatic change in the name?
:
: I'm inclined to think that people will be more likely to migrate
DS == Dave Storrs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DS There have been multiple mentions of the fact that we intend to have safe
DS signals in Perl 6. I was wondering if it will also be possible to have
DS more than one alarm() set at a time, or some other mechanism for having
DS multiple
QUOTE LARRY
Dave Storrs writes:
: You know, it would be really cool if you specify the number of
: lines you wanted like so:
:
: $STDIN # One line
: *$STDIN# All available lines
: *4$STDIN # Next 4 lines
:
: Or even:
:
:
On Thu, 10 May 2001, Uri Guttman wrote:
DS == Dave Storrs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DS There have been multiple mentions of the fact that we intend to have safe
DS signals in Perl 6. I was wondering if it will also be possible to have
DS more than one alarm() set at a time, or
if we have a proper core event loop as dan and i want, multiple timers
will be part of that. and that will mean we can have timed out
operations without the mess of eval/die (or whatever 6 will have for
that).
Event loop will be great for many applications. We probably need
a better way to
Edward Peschko writes:
: Although I would amend what he said to saying 'perl6 will eat perl 5 code
: close to painlessly as possible including typeglobs'. Typeglobs are a central
: part of a lot of CPAN's core modules; I don't think we could get away with
: abolishing them willy-nilly.
Much of
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