Re: Confused about rakudobrew and Rakudo Star

[Brock Wilcox]

What I mean is that if rakudo 2016.02, 2016.03, etc are released, I can
still do

rakudobrew build moar 2016.01.1

to get the rakudo that is bundled in the Rakudo Star 2016.01 release.

--Brock


On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 3:01 AM, Moritz Lenz  wrote:

> On 02/06/2016 12:37 AM, Brock Wilcox wrote:
>
>> Also note that in my listing I installed a specific rakudo release, the
>> one that is included in the star tarball. That way further rakudo
>> releases are irrelevant.
>>
>
> There's a contradiction in terms here: if there were no Rakudo releases,
> you couldn't specify a Rakudo by version. Which means Rakudo releases are
> still quite relevant.
>
> Cheers,
> Moritz
>

Re: Confused about rakudobrew and Rakudo Star

[Moritz Lenz]

On 02/04/2016 01:26 PM, James E Keenan wrote:

On 02/03/2016 10:48 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote:

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:30 PM, James E Keenan 
wrote:


I am evidently confused as to the relationship, if any, between the
'rakudobrew' utility and the Rakudo::Star distribution.



In short: rakudobrew is for the folks who want to track the rapid
development of Rakudo. Star is for folks who want something stable in
order
to play with the language, and includes the Task::Star ecosystem. As Star
was cut earlier today, it's based on the rakudo that was current earlier
today (and still fairly current as there haven't been many commits in the
past few hours).

It's more or less the difference between a Python or Perl 5 release, and
installing either from git HEAD. rakudobrew builds from HEAD; Star is a
release, which happens to be close to HEAD at the moment because it was
just created. HEAD will keep moving; Star will stay stable for a while
(used to be monthly, but they're considering releasing less often now)
before the next release.



So, to clarify:  If I want to get this week's release of Rakudo Star on,
say, Linux, I have to download this tarball:

http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2016.01.tar.gz

... and build from source -- correct?  I cannot use rakudobrew for
Rakudo Star -- correct?


Correct on both.

Re: Confused about rakudobrew and Rakudo Star

[James E Keenan]

On 02/03/2016 10:48 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote:

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:30 PM, James E Keenan  wrote:


I am evidently confused as to the relationship, if any, between the
'rakudobrew' utility and the Rakudo::Star distribution.



In short: rakudobrew is for the folks who want to track the rapid
development of Rakudo. Star is for folks who want something stable in order
to play with the language, and includes the Task::Star ecosystem. As Star
was cut earlier today, it's based on the rakudo that was current earlier
today (and still fairly current as there haven't been many commits in the
past few hours).

It's more or less the difference between a Python or Perl 5 release, and
installing either from git HEAD. rakudobrew builds from HEAD; Star is a
release, which happens to be close to HEAD at the moment because it was
just created. HEAD will keep moving; Star will stay stable for a while
(used to be monthly, but they're considering releasing less often now)
before the next release.



So, to clarify:  If I want to get this week's release of Rakudo Star on, 
say, Linux, I have to download this tarball:


http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2016.01.tar.gz

... and build from source -- correct?  I cannot use rakudobrew for 
Rakudo Star -- correct?


Thank you very much.
Jim Keenan

Re: Confused about rakudobrew and Rakudo Star

[Moritz Lenz]

Hi,

On 02/04/2016 01:44 PM, Brock Wilcox wrote:

If my understanding is correct (might not be), the tarball should be
ALMOST equivalent to:

 rakudobrew build moar 2016.01.1 # Install rakudo 2016.01.1
 rakudobrew global 2016.01.1 # Make this the default
 rakudobrew build panda  # Build panda for this rakudo
 panda install Task::Star# Get the latest Task::Star,
needs --force to do again

I just did these steps on my Debian machine with no problems.

The main issue I can think of is the last step -- installing Task::Star
installs the current version of all the packages, whereas the tarball
rakudo-star release includes a specific version of each of the Star
modules. If someone updates SVG then this will get the LATEST, not the
one in the official release. I think this is a weakness of the
versioning system -- ideally you'd be able to do something like "panda
install Task::Star=2016.01" and get the exact same thing.

I see Moritz replied to this also saying that the tarball is the way to
go. I'd love to know what I'm missing out on by doing it this way.


Exactly what you speculated above.

The correct approach would be to have releases from each module, and 
depend on these versions, and then one could make a Task::Star release 
that depends on these specific versions.


Cheers,
Moritz

Re: Confused about rakudobrew and Rakudo Star

[Brock Wilcox]

If my understanding is correct (might not be), the tarball should be ALMOST
equivalent to:

rakudobrew build moar 2016.01.1 # Install rakudo 2016.01.1
rakudobrew global 2016.01.1 # Make this the default
rakudobrew build panda  # Build panda for this rakudo
panda install Task::Star# Get the latest Task::Star, needs
--force to do again

I just did these steps on my Debian machine with no problems.

The main issue I can think of is the last step -- installing Task::Star
installs the current version of all the packages, whereas the tarball
rakudo-star release includes a specific version of each of the Star
modules. If someone updates SVG then this will get the LATEST, not the one
in the official release. I think this is a weakness of the versioning
system -- ideally you'd be able to do something like "panda install
Task::Star=2016.01" and get the exact same thing.

I see Moritz replied to this also saying that the tarball is the way to go.
I'd love to know what I'm missing out on by doing it this way.

--Brock


On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 7:26 AM, James E Keenan  wrote:

> On 02/03/2016 10:48 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:30 PM, James E Keenan 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I am evidently confused as to the relationship, if any, between the
>>> 'rakudobrew' utility and the Rakudo::Star distribution.
>>>
>>
>>
>> In short: rakudobrew is for the folks who want to track the rapid
>> development of Rakudo. Star is for folks who want something stable in
>> order
>> to play with the language, and includes the Task::Star ecosystem. As Star
>> was cut earlier today, it's based on the rakudo that was current earlier
>> today (and still fairly current as there haven't been many commits in the
>> past few hours).
>>
>> It's more or less the difference between a Python or Perl 5 release, and
>> installing either from git HEAD. rakudobrew builds from HEAD; Star is a
>> release, which happens to be close to HEAD at the moment because it was
>> just created. HEAD will keep moving; Star will stay stable for a while
>> (used to be monthly, but they're considering releasing less often now)
>> before the next release.
>>
>>
> So, to clarify:  If I want to get this week's release of Rakudo Star on,
> say, Linux, I have to download this tarball:
>
> http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2016.01.tar.gz
>
> ... and build from source -- correct?  I cannot use rakudobrew for Rakudo
> Star -- correct?
>
>
> Thank you very much.
> Jim Keenan
>

Re: Confused about rakudobrew and Rakudo Star

[Brandon Allbery]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Brock Wilcox 
wrote:

> I see Moritz replied to this also saying that the tarball is the way to
> go. I'd love to know what I'm missing out on by doing it this way.
>

Probably nothing right now.

The big issue will come later: rakudo HEAD will be working toward a v6.d
spec in the future, while Star will continue to target v6.c. (I think I've
already seen a v6.d-targeted proposed spec change.) So Star will get you a
stable language, whereas rakudobrew will get you a moving target that might
produce surprises.

At this point, rakudobrew should probably only be used by people developing
the perl 6 spec, and/or rakudo & components. If you want to *use* Perl 6,
you want Star.

-- 
brandon s allbery kf8nh   sine nomine associates
allber...@gmail.com  ballb...@sinenomine.net
unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonadhttp://sinenomine.net

Confused about rakudobrew and Rakudo Star

[James E Keenan]

I am evidently confused as to the relationship, if any, between the 
'rakudobrew' utility and the Rakudo::Star distribution.


Several weeks ago, when it became apparent that there would be delays in 
the release of a Rakudo Star distribution with the "Christmas" release 
in it, I executed the following commands to install Rakudo Perl 6.


$ rakudobrew install moar
$ rakudobrew install panda
$ panda install Task::Star

IIRC, I found these instructions at several locations, including this 
helpful blog post:


http://friedo.com/blog/2016/01/exploring-perl-6-up-and-running

The results:

[$ which perl6
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/bin/perl6

$ perl6 -v
This is Rakudo version 2015.12-235-g172a92b built on MoarVM version 
2015.12-29-g8079ca5 implementing Perl 6.c.


And off I went to learn Perl 6.

Today, I saw Tobias Leich's message on this list, "Announce: Rakudo Star 
Release 2016.01", as well as Coke's blog post here: 
http://blogs.perl.org/users/coke/2016/02/rakudo-perl-6-compiler---2016011-released.html


So, I thought, oh good, now I can upgrade.  I repeated the above 
commands, with mixed results.  On the one hand, the first two commands 
ran without incident.  But when I said 'perl6 -v', I got the same Rakudo 
version as several weeks ago.  So it appears I didn't upgrade at all.


On the other hand, when I ran 'panda install Task::Star', I got this 
inelegant output:


#
$ panda install Task::Star
==> Fetching Task::Star
==> Building Task::Star
==> Testing Task::Star
==> Installing Task::Star
Task::Star:ver<*>:auth<>:api<> already installed
  in block  at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/C6FEA515A97C45ED8F92BCF5038BA028C9CE9CC0 
line 61
  in sub indir at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/5AEF9DA5AE15E5AB5CB2ADB58A455E007FA7839E 
line 20
  in method install at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/C6FEA515A97C45ED8F92BCF5038BA028C9CE9CC0 
line 42
  in method install at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/9036849E1656E91211D00AB4530B81D29A7D6E82 
line 161
  in method resolve at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/9036849E1656E91211D00AB4530B81D29A7D6E82 
line 234
  in sub MAIN at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/resources/76CD539C815A33F2891D2EF3D6D96B1081567AD1 
line 18
  in block  at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/resources/76CD539C815A33F2891D2EF3D6D96B1081567AD1 
line 150


Actually thrown at:
  in method install at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/C6FEA515A97C45ED8F92BCF5038BA028C9CE9CC0 
line 44
  in method install at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/9036849E1656E91211D00AB4530B81D29A7D6E82 
line 161
  in method resolve at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/9036849E1656E91211D00AB4530B81D29A7D6E82 
line 234
  in sub MAIN at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/resources/76CD539C815A33F2891D2EF3D6D96B1081567AD1 
line 18
  in block  at 
/home/jkeenan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/resources/76CD539C815A33F2891D2EF3D6D96B1081567AD1 
line 150

#

So, I'm confused as to whether I have any version of "Rakudo Star" at 
all.  My guess is that I've actually simply built, via rakudobrew, Perl6 
on Moar twice.  Is that correct?


Thank you very much.
Jim Keenan