Greg Smith wrote:
I think a helpful next step here would be to put Robert's fsync
compaction patch into here and see if that helps. There are enough
backend syncs showing up in the difficult workloads (scale=1000,
clients =32) that its impact should be obvious.
Initial tests show everything
committing this is that I haven't done a
sanity check over whether it impacts the fsync mechanics in a way that
might cause an issue. Your assumptions there are documented and look
reasonable on quick review; I just haven't had much time yet to look for
flaws in them.
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on
the rest of that tomorrow.
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,,Unmodified,,Compacted Fsync,,,
scale,clients,tps,max_latency,tps
problem now) or less true (drives are much slower relative to
CPUs now) today. I'm trying to remain agnostic and let the benchmarks
offer an opinion instead.
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.
This is good in that it makes it more likely a spread sync approach that
works on XFS will also work on these newer kernels with ext4. Then the
only group we wouldn't be able to help if that works the ext3 + old
kernel crowd.
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selection is going to be the new default, I hope, I don't want
it to be possible it will pick a number smaller than the default of
older versions. So the automatic lower limit is 64kB, while the actual
manually set lower limit remains 32kB, as before.
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happens. We believe there's never any advantage due to the
forced wal segment switch, but having test results to the contrary
floating around keeps me from being too aggressive in how the wording
there goes.
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in time to discuss at release
planning time. The main thing that's become much more obvious to me
just recently is how the remaining issues left here relate to the true
serialization work, so worrying about that first is probably the right
order anyway.
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don't think it will be a problem if it
takes a little longer to get this done.
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some proper context for the worst-case behavior people can see right
now, and to make sure refactoring here doesn't make things worse on it.
My target is same or slightly better on ext3, much better on XFS and ext4.
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100 175 250 500 1000 2000
SETCLIENTS=4 8 16 32 64
SETTIMES=3
RUNTIME=600
TOTTRANS=
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code review. I've got a clear test plan I'm
progressing through this week to beat on the performance measurement
aspects of the patch.
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not sure if it's time to start trimming tests yet
until we've made more progress on interpreting results first.
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for more people to run it,
to collect feedback toward further improving its quality.
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to comment on whether
that smaller optimization would be valuable. It may be a worthwhile
concept to throw into the sequencing.
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Robert Haas wrote:
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote:
Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com writes:
Does try_relation_open need to have a lock acquisition timeout when AV
is calling it?
Hmm. I think when looking at the AV code, I've always
attack vector, this really needs an improvement.
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,last_autovacuum,autovacuum_count FROM pg_stat_user_tables
WHERE relname='t';
DELETE FROM t WHERE s5;
\q
psql
BEGIN;
LOCK t;
Leave that open, then go to anther session with old tail -f on the
logs to wait for the errors to show up.
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backend syncs showing up in the difficult workloads (scale=1000,
clients =32) that its impact should be obvious.
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feel right to me.
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Robert Haas wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com wrote:
One of the ideas Simon and I had been considering at one point was adding
some better de-duplication logic to the fsync absorb code, which I'm
reminded by the pattern here might be helpful
think almost all
the individual pieces are available. I'd hate to see this fail to get
integrated now just for lack of time, considering the problem is so
serious when you run into it.
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the better ideas we have in pieces here all
assembled well by then.
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to be 4 instead for 32kB. So
there's probably some minor bug left in where I inserted this into the
initialization sequence.
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that happen to work well on it. Preserving every
one of those is something that's not as important to me as making the
tuning interface simple and clear.
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server I've been
trying to tune.
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put in my own commit message if you
grab from my repo, that had a typo)
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diff --git a/doc
it
altogether. I just looked at the code again when developing the patch,
and there's really not enough benefit to removing it to worry about
taking any risk right now.
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where they have
inadvertently wandered onto.
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Robert Treat wrote:
This is a great use case for user level tracing support. Add a probe
around these bits, and you can capture the information when you need
it.
Sure. I would also like a pony.
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already have trigger functions available to them, that they can write
and tweak for best performance.
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,
and you've done something with a much brighter future. I don't think
the concurrency hurdles here are unique to this feature either, as shown
by the regular overlap noted with the other serialization work.
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that might be helpful for some other things you might wonder about
eventually.
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with track_functions resets too.
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from two versions of a 12K line schema dump I'd never seen
before in a couple of hours using kdiff3. I'd have killed myself before
finishing if I had to do the same job with traditional diff as you're
describing it here.
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, and if the local secondary dies
they'll just degrade to the slow remote commits.
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Kevin Grittner wrote:
Greg Smith wrote:
I could see shipping this with the automatic heavy LOCK TABLE in
there.
How would you handle or document behavior in REPEATABLE READ
isolation? The lock doesn't do much good unless you acquire it
before you get your snapshot, right
appreciate the resistence to, if it's possible to
do at all.
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advocating for this
logging a pretty easy sell to me at least.
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diff --git a/src/backend/commands
the spread interval, will also be really easy to revert if a
problem is found there. With Simon and I both reviewing each others
work on this already, I hope we can keep this one from clogging the
committer critical path you're worried about here.
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might be helpful too. I don't think that's necessary for all of
the detailed pg_stat_get_* functions that regular users are less likely
to care about, just these higher level ones.
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are caused exclusively by not locking
enough, that may be the next necessary step here.
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/merge204 if you did
want to try this out.
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, so if you can suggest something here or update the patch I'll
try it soon afterwards.
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DROP TABLE Stock;
CREATE TABLE Stock(item_id int UNIQUE, balance int
better.
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DROP TABLE Stock;
CREATE TABLE Stock(item_id int UNIQUE, balance int);
INSERT
. I don't care
so much about the rate at which concurrent UPSERT-style MERGE happens,
so long as it doesn't crash. But that's where this has been stuck at
for a while now.
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, but not unlimited (lest an out of
control backup linger to overlap with what happens the next day).
Whichever approach is taken to make this better, I think it deserves a
backport too.
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.
There's your feedback for this round. I hope we'll see an updated patch
from you as part of the next CommitFest.
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so important that it should block
the critical path for the next alpha.
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To make
Returned With Feedback instead get a new entry in the next CF instead,
which avoids this problem.
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Robert Haas wrote:
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com wrote:
patch I submit. Doesn't seem worth going through the trouble of committing
that minor rework on its own, I'll slip it into the next useful thing that
touches this area I do. Thanks for the hint
forward now
that the main issues are identified.
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it into the next CF
early.
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month and the steady flow of updates to this one are good
signs of progress.
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of attention yet.
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need to sit on the stove a little bit longer before it's
done regardless. I'm marking this one Returned With Feedback, and
hopefully Craig will continue hammering on this to clean up the
remaining details and resubmit in the next month.
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that touches this area I do. Thanks for the hint, this
would work better than what I did.
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three of which were always 0.
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diff --git a/src/backend/access/transam/xlog.c b/src/backend
that implementation detail; given that xlog.c is printing a less
fine-grained time anyway (seconds with 3 digits vs. msec with 3 digits)
it seems unlikely to run into a real problem here.
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Robert Haas wrote:
- instrument checkpoint sync calls - I plan to commit this in the next
48 hours. (Hopefully Greg Smith will do the cleanup I suggested, if
not I'll do it.)
Yes, doing that tonight so you can have a simple (hopefully) bit of work
to commit tomorrow.
- MERGE command
refactoring, already in progress via the patch Josh
submitted. There's a bit of time left to get that done.
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in place.
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To make changes
very well be the reason for the difference; don't know yet. I'm trying
to get through this CF before I start getting distracted by newer
patches, I'll get to yours soon I hope.
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then posted the patch and added it to the January CF. Unbeknownst to
me until today, Simon had the same multi-year this itches and I can't
make it stop feel toward these parameters, and that's how it jumped the
standard process.
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connections. There are essentially two
foot-guns you have to aim before you run into the worst case here, which
is making every single commit wait for the delay when there's really
only one active process committing.
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. If individual syncs take so long that the background writer
gets lost for a while executing them, and therefore doesn't do LRU
cleanup, you've got a problem that LRU-related improvements probably
aren't enough to solve.
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that shuffled around a lot of this code last night, but
the first thing I coded was junk because of some mistaken assumptions.
Have been coming to same realizations about how messy this really is you
have.
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, and some testing on FreeBSD would be useful too. That's
about it for platforms that I think anybody needs to worry about.
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it
the code wasn't so interesting yet. But now there is one; should that
get revived again? It seems like all of the pieces needed to build
what's really desired here are available, it's just the always
non-trivial task of integrating them together the right way that's needed.
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The one time this year top-posting seems appropriate...this patch seems
stalled waiting for some sort of response to the concerns Alvaro raised
here.
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
Excerpts from Fujii Masao's message of jue nov 25 10:47:12 -0300 2010:
The attached patch s/CopyXLog/CopyBoth/g and
Boxuan Zhai wrote:
I have updated the MERGE patch for two main problems.
The patch inside the .tar.gz file you attached isn't right; that
extracts to a tiny file of junk characters.
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identified themselves.
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writes for things that can only be written out at checkpoint time,
on the other hand, are unavoidable in the current design. Providing
detail on them is going to be relevant unless there's a major
refactoring of how those happen.
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hardcoded in
the current patch. I'll work on finishing that up and organizing some
more extensive performance tests. Right now I'm more concerned about
finishing the tests around the wal_sync_method issues, which are related
to this and need to get sorted out a bit more urgently.
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to the idea
afterwards. If this code is getting touched, and it's clear it is in
some direction, I'd like to see things change so it's not possible for
the two to diverge again afterwards.
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need this feature who can help?
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;
that whole direction worries me.
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the gun a bit into
talking about backpatching before the code for HEAD was completely done,
then stalled there. Are we going to see an updated patch that addresses
submitted feedback in this cycle?
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likely to be
touching the same files. You raise a valid concern, I just haven't seen
that actually happen in practice yet.
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reasonable
or not before diving into the coding.
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is ready to accept connections
LOG: autovacuum launcher started
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=0.000 s,
average=-9223372036854775808.-2147483 s
After an immediate checkpoint, so at least one path not quite right yet.
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diff --git a/src/backend/access/transam/xlog.c b/src/backend/access/transam/xlog.c
index ede6ceb
logic to the fsync absorb code, which
I'm reminded by the pattern here might be helpful independently of other
improvements.
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--and forces
those writes to happen as soon as they can be scheduled. If you graph
the amount of data shown Dirty: by /proc/meminfo over time, once the
sync calls start happening it's like a descending staircase pattern,
dropping a little bit as each sync fires.
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I'm working on.
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To make
cleanup now that
I'm feeling better.
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availability, you're back at having a multi-node problem
again. This is why the most active work is on distributed designs that
start on that basis, rather than projects trying to build more scalable
monoliths.
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, without stopping to do the normal background writer cleanup work,
is also busted by that observation.
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of code too that's why we
started with that.
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Kevin Grittner wrote:
Greg Smith wrote:
oom_adj is deprecated, scheduled for removal in August 2010:
That surprised me so I checked the URL. I believe you have a typo
there and it's August, 2012.
This is why I include references, so that when the cold medicine hits me
for pointing this out.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant USg...@2ndquadrant.com Baltimore, MD
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a patch for it, maybe that assumption is
wrong.
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use a brief reminder of how this bit fits into the serializable
lock consistency patch that's already sitting into the CF queue as
Ready for Committer though.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant USg...@2ndquadrant.com Baltimore, MD
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.
2) Have the sync summary returned upwards, so it can be put onto the
same line as the rest of the rest of the log_checkpoint info.
All seems reasonable to me. Will rev a new patch by tomorrow.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant USg...@2ndquadrant.com Baltimore, MD
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?
One of the paths I'd like to follow is experimenting with both sorting
writes by file and looking for duplication in the queues. I think a
basic, simple sync spreading approach needs to get finished first
through; this sort of thing would then be an optimization on top of it.
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details from me about.
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merge-v203-20101114.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
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of those is similarly broken on my install. Thoughts
on whether adding those to the regression tests would be a worthwhile
patch? I'll do the work, just thinking out loud about the concept.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant USg...@2ndquadrant.com Baltimore, MD
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confident it was my mistake, and not something that just slipped through
without being tested.
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just did of the code.
I'll give a sample program that stresses the system, generating slow
timing results and other types of bad behavior, along with the next
patch I submit here shortly.
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