Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-10 Thread Bruce Momjian
scott.marlowe wrote: On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: scott.marlowe wrote: On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: scott.marlowe writes: If indexes on text worked right in other locales it would be no big deal. They will in version 7.4, so all these

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-09 Thread scott.marlowe
On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: scott.marlowe wrote: On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: scott.marlowe writes: If indexes on text worked right in other locales it would be no big deal. They will in version 7.4, so all these concerns about trading off

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-08 Thread Alvaro Herrera Munoz
On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:44:21AM -0600, scott.marlowe wrote: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Nigel J. Andrews wrote: Everything Nigel just wrote plus one thing. If it comes down to it, we could always require a --locale setting and refuse to initdb without it. That way, whether it's in an RPM or

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-08 Thread scott.marlowe
On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: scott.marlowe writes: If it comes down to it, we could always require a --locale setting and refuse to initdb without it. That way, whether it's in an RPM or from source, somebody somewhere along the line has to choose something. By

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-08 Thread Peter Eisentraut
scott.marlowe writes: If it comes down to it, we could always require a --locale setting and refuse to initdb without it. That way, whether it's in an RPM or from source, somebody somewhere along the line has to choose something. By default, you choose when you install or configure your

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-08 Thread Peter Eisentraut
scott.marlowe writes: If indexes on text worked right in other locales it would be no big deal. They will in version 7.4, so all these concerns about trading off locale use vs. performance will become obsolete. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-07 Thread scott.marlowe
On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Alvaro Herrera Munoz wrote: On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:44:21AM -0600, scott.marlowe wrote: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Nigel J. Andrews wrote: Everything Nigel just wrote plus one thing. If it comes down to it, we could always require a --locale setting and refuse to

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-06 Thread scott.marlowe
On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Nigel J. Andrews wrote: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That is one thing I liked about the initdb mention --- it clearly told them to watch out for something they might not have been looking for. Only if they read

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-06 Thread scott.marlowe
On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: scott.marlowe writes: If indexes on text worked right in other locales it would be no big deal. They will in version 7.4, so all these concerns about trading off locale use vs. performance will become obsolete. Oh! I thought there were still

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-06 Thread Bruce Momjian
scott.marlowe wrote: On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: scott.marlowe writes: If indexes on text worked right in other locales it would be no big deal. They will in version 7.4, so all these concerns about trading off locale use vs. performance will become obsolete.

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-05 Thread Nigel J. Andrews
On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That is one thing I liked about the initdb mention --- it clearly told them to watch out for something they might not have been looking for. Only if they read the message, though. People who are running RPM

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-05 Thread Alvaro Herrera
On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 11:05:03PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That is one thing I liked about the initdb mention --- it clearly told them to watch out for something they might not have been looking for. Only if they read the message, though. People who

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-05 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That is one thing I liked about the initdb mention --- it clearly told them to watch out for something they might not have been looking for. Only if they read the message, though. People who are running RPM installations probably

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-05 Thread Bruce Momjian
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Bruce Momjian writes: How are people going to know to use these special LIKE indexes? The same way they presumably find out about anything else: RTFM. A couple of more cross-references and index entries need to be added, though. Well, this isn't one of those, How

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-05 Thread Tom Lane
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That is one thing I liked about the initdb mention --- it clearly told them to watch out for something they might not have been looking for. Only if they read the message, though. People who are running RPM installations probably never get to see what

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-02 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Tom Lane writes: I think that a more general solution would be the ability to select a locale (and hence a sort order) per-column, as the SQL spec envisions. It is a general solution, but not for this problem. The problem was to make all locales equally suitable for certain optimizations, not

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-02 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Bruce Momjian writes: Our default indexes will be able to do =, , , ORDER BY, and the special index will be able to do LIKE, ORDER BY, and maybe equals. Do I have that correct? The default operator class supports comparisons (=, , , etc.) and ORDER BY based on those operators. The other

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-02 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Tom Lane writes: Are there any locales that claim that not-physically-identical strings are equal? In Unicode there are plenty such combinations. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-02 Thread Bruce Momjian
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Bruce Momjian writes: Our default indexes will be able to do =, , , ORDER BY, and the special index will be able to do LIKE, ORDER BY, and maybe equals. Do I have that correct? The default operator class supports comparisons (=, , , etc.) and ORDER BY based on

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-01 Thread Tom Lane
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't understand why you call this a hack. Pattern matching and string comparison simply work differently, so the proper solution is to use different operator classes. After all, that's what operator classes exist for. What is left to be desired?

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-01 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has the single-byte LIKE penalty been eliminated, so we don't need to consider using C as the default locale for initdb, right? I'm still of the opinion that we should make C the default locale. But I'm not sure where the consensus

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-01 Thread Tom Lane
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, my understanding is that you would create something such as: CREATE INDEX iix ON tab (LIKE col) and that does LIKE lookups and knows how to do col LIKE 'abc%', but it can't be used for = or ORDER BY, but it can be used for equality tests? Hm.

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-06-01 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, my understanding is that you would create something such as: CREATE INDEX iix ON tab (LIKE col) and that does LIKE lookups and knows how to do col LIKE 'abc%', but it can't be used for = or ORDER BY, but it can be used for

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-05-31 Thread Bruce Momjian
Has the single-byte LIKE penalty been eliminated, so we don't need to consider using C as the default locale for initdb, right? If fixed, how was it done? --- Peter Eisentraut wrote: Tom Lane writes: I recall someone

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-05-31 Thread Tom Lane
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has the single-byte LIKE penalty been eliminated, so we don't need to consider using C as the default locale for initdb, right? I'm still of the opinion that we should make C the default locale. But I'm not sure where the consensus is, so I've not made

Re: [HACKERS] default locale considered harmful? (was Re: [GENERAL]

2003-05-31 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Tom Lane writes: Peter has provided a hack whereby one can create a LIKE-supporting index in a non-C locale. But a *default* index in a non-C locale is still not going to support LIKE ... and the hacked index will not support ordinary comparison or ordering operators. So I think there's