Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

-Original Message- From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Thierry Goubier Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 9:52 PM To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size? Hi Henrik, Le 03/04/2016 21:32, Henrik Nergaard a écrit : > I

[Pharo-dev] Bloc, Athens, Pharo5 advice

Hi everybody, I've been off doing a seaside project which really had me using Pharo more than doing anything new to develop for it. Now, I'm in the project where I get to do some more fun stuff on multi-touch interfaces in Pharo. It seems like Pharo has made major progress in that direction so

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 12:27, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > However, in most UI of applications (in web, mobile) it is extremely rare > that clipping or event handling areas differ from drawing one (visual one - > one that user sees in the end). A counter-example that immediately

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 03/04/2016 23:31, Igor Stasenko a écrit : On 4 April 2016 at 00:18, Thierry Goubier > wrote: The scroll is defined in delta in pixels. So, scrolling single line - you scroll by top or bottom

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 4 April 2016 at 00:18, Thierry Goubier wrote: > > >> The scroll is defined in delta in pixels. So, scrolling single line >> - you scroll by top or bottom line height (depending on direction). >> > > You wrote a dedicated scrollbar? The standard one is [0,

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 03/04/2016 22:46, Igor Stasenko a écrit : On 3 April 2016 at 23:41, Igor Stasenko > wrote: On 3 April 2016 at 23:30, Thierry Goubier > wrote: Le 03/04/2016 21:58,

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 23:41, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > On 3 April 2016 at 23:30, Thierry Goubier > wrote: > >> Le 03/04/2016 21:58, Igor Stasenko a écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On 3 April 2016 at 22:32, Thierry Goubier >>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 23:30, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Le 03/04/2016 21:58, Igor Stasenko a écrit : > >> >> >> On 3 April 2016 at 22:32, Thierry Goubier > > wrote: >> >> Le 03/04/2016 20:01, Igor Stasenko a

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 03/04/2016 22:26, Igor Stasenko a écrit : On 3 April 2016 at 23:00, Thierry Goubier > wrote: Le 03/04/2016 21:51, Henrik Nergaard a écrit : A FTTableContainerMorph recreates all its submorphs on every

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 03/04/2016 21:58, Igor Stasenko a écrit : On 3 April 2016 at 22:32, Thierry Goubier > wrote: Le 03/04/2016 20:01, Igor Stasenko a écrit : On 3 April 2016 at 20:51, Thierry Goubier

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

> On 03 Apr 2016, at 21:58, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > > On 3 April 2016 at 22:32, Thierry Goubier > wrote: > Le 03/04/2016 20:01, Igor Stasenko a écrit : > > > On 3 April 2016 at 20:51, Thierry Goubier

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 23:00, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Le 03/04/2016 21:51, Henrik Nergaard a écrit : > >> A FTTableContainerMorph recreates all its submorphs on every >>> drawOn:. >>> >> Not correct. >> > > Ok. I stand corrected. This is why it is done in #drawOn: and not

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 03/04/2016 21:51, Henrik Nergaard a écrit : A FTTableContainerMorph recreates all its submorphs on every drawOn:. Not correct. Ok. I stand corrected. This is why it is done in #drawOn: and not #drawSubmorphsOn: Submorphs are only recreated when the view of the list has changed

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 22:32, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Le 03/04/2016 20:01, Igor Stasenko a écrit : > >> >> >> On 3 April 2016 at 20:51, Thierry Goubier > > wrote: >> >> Le 03/04/2016 19:12, Igor Stasenko a

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Hi Henrik, Le 03/04/2016 21:32, Henrik Nergaard a écrit : I changed it mostly because it was messing up the color when you did mouse-over (required to check the owner color to set it correctly when there was a selection, the code was ugly and with corner cases). Ok. Encapsulating a morph

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

>A FTTableContainerMorph recreates all its submorphs on every drawOn:. Not correct. Submorphs are only recreated when the view of the list has changed #canRefreshValues, ie if the variable "needsRefreshExposedRows" is set to true. If this is false nothing will happen in #drawOn: If changes

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 03/04/2016 20:01, Igor Stasenko a écrit : On 3 April 2016 at 20:51, Thierry Goubier > wrote: Le 03/04/2016 19:12, Igor Stasenko a écrit : On 3 April 2016 at 19:48, Thierry Goubier

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 3/4/16 18:23, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit : This means that any abstraction/wrapper around athens will fail. What if we would remove drawingShape and by default leave drawOn: method to be empty. That way we would not put any constraints on rendering part. user just gets athens canvas and can

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 03/04/2016 20:00, Henrik Nergaard a écrit : Let me return you the question then: do you do a composition of submorphs if you're trying to get a different drawOn:? Oh, ok, that's true FastTable does it for the selection... changing background color by encapsulating a row in another Morph

Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)

--- Begin Message --- Seems that it was renamed? Any hints of the tools I should look at to find the rank of something in a distribution? -cam On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Cameron Sanders via Pharo-dev < pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From:

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 20:51, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Le 03/04/2016 19:12, Igor Stasenko a écrit : > >> >> >> On 3 April 2016 at 19:48, Thierry Goubier > > wrote: >> >> Le 03/04/2016 17:33, stepharo a écrit

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

>Let me return you the question then: do you do a composition of submorphs if >you're trying to get a different drawOn:? >Oh, ok, that's true FastTable does it for the selection... changing background >color by encapsulating a row in another Morph with the right background color. Did, not

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 03/04/2016 19:12, Igor Stasenko a écrit : On 3 April 2016 at 19:48, Thierry Goubier > wrote: Le 03/04/2016 17:33, stepharo a écrit : If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override one single

[Pharo-dev] Philosophy here

(This philosophical post provoked by discussion in another thread where we talking about cases of implementing wrappers and layers of composition.) To achieve more you shall do more. Usual truth thing in daily life. Not so true for programming. It actually 'do less to achieve more'. Because it's

Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)

--- Begin Message --- So was SciSmalltalk renamed? -cam On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > It is understandable that over time an own identity for Pharo is helpful > (especially > because of the bad Smalltalk marketing, failures of commercial vendors in >

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 19:43, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Hi Alex, Igor and others, > > this discussion is interesting to follow. GUI frameworks are hard... > > Le 03/04/2016 16:58, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit : > >> And you lost me here.. That is complete nonsense.. from any

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 19:48, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Le 03/04/2016 17:33, stepharo a écrit : > >> If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override one single >> method. >> >>> >>> Everything you wrote with unreadable amount of characters is >>>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Le 03/04/2016 17:33, stepharo a écrit : If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override one single method. Everything you wrote with unreadable amount of characters is for nothing. I see clearly point of Igor. And for me it feels very logical. With such

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 19:23, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > This means that any abstraction/wrapper around athens will fail. > > I would not say it like that. WIth decent effort you can do it. But the right question here: do you really need it? You missing some features for shapes?

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Hi Alex, Igor and others, this discussion is interesting to follow. GUI frameworks are hard... Le 03/04/2016 16:58, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit : And you lost me here.. That is complete nonsense.. from any perspective. Can i unsee this code, please? :) If I would say that we have

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

This means that any abstraction/wrapper around athens will fail. What if we would remove drawingShape and by default leave drawOn: method to be empty. That way we would not put any constraints on rendering part. user just gets athens canvas and can do whatever she wants. Instead we would have

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 18:30, stepharo wrote: > > BlCell>>initialize > super initialize. > self > shape: > (BlShape new > fillPaint: (BlColorPaint new color: (Color yellow)); > path: BlRectanglePath new); > extent:

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 17:58, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > And you lost me here.. That is complete nonsense.. from any perspective. >> Can i unsee this code, please? :) > > > If I would say that we have defaultShape method and it can be overridden > as: > > defaultShape >> ^

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override one single method. Everything you wrote with unreadable amount of characters is for nothing. I see clearly point of Igor. And for me it feels very logical. With such design you can lively change clipping area

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

BlCell>>initialize super initialize. self shape: (BlShape new fillPaint: (BlColorPaint new color: (Color yellow)); path: BlRectanglePath new); extent: self extent Igor I could understand that if I want a clickable rectangle I

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

I did not want a square with a clickable circle. I just wanted a square with a drawn circle on it and I do not understand why I should compose a new morph just for that. I did not get how draw and morph composition are working. I tried to draw the circle myself and I fall into a wrong version

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Sorry aliaksei but this is not an anwser in a discussion Le 3/4/16 11:08, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit : If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override one single method. Everything you wrote with unreadable amount of characters is for nothing. All mentioned stuff is possible.

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

> > And you lost me here.. That is complete nonsense.. from any perspective. > Can i unsee this code, please? :) If I would say that we have defaultShape method and it can be overridden as: defaultShape > ^ BlShape new > fillPaint: (BlColorPaint new color: (Color yellow)); > path:

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 16:20, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > On 3 April 2016 at 15:28, Glenn Cavarlé wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Aliaksei Syrel wrote >> > However, in most UI of applications (in web, mobile) it is extremely >> rare >> > that clipping or event handling

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 15:28, Glenn Cavarlé wrote: > Hi, > > Aliaksei Syrel wrote > > However, in most UI of applications (in web, mobile) it is extremely rare > > that clipping or event handling areas differ from drawing one (visual one > > - > > one that user sees in the end). >

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Hi, Aliaksei Syrel wrote > However, in most UI of applications (in web, mobile) it is extremely rare > that clipping or event handling areas differ from drawing one (visual one > - > one that user sees in the end). It is the same for desktop UI (Qt, JavaFx,...). I think the misunderstanding

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

2016-04-03 14:23 GMT+02:00 Denis Kudriashov : > I agree. But Igor shows trivial example: label with rectangle background. I remember in PharoDays you show text with different background shapes. It was composition of elements?

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

2016-04-03 12:27 GMT+02:00 Aliaksei Syrel : > It is indeed logical :) > > However, in most UI of applications (in web, mobile) it is extremely rare > that clipping or event handling areas differ from drawing one (visual one - > one that user sees in the end). > > Do you

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 14:37, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > I completely agree with you now, Igor :) > > The idea that I *proposed* during Pharo days is to make BlShape > polymorphic with what athens have. I did not implement it yet I work on it > just right now. > > I suppose that I

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 14:44, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > On 3 April 2016 at 13:18, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > >> Hi >> >> 2016-04-03 11:08 GMT+02:00 Aliaksei Syrel : >> >>> If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 13:18, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > Hi > > 2016-04-03 11:08 GMT+02:00 Aliaksei Syrel : > >> If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override one single >> method. >> >> Everything you wrote with unreadable amount of

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

I completely agree with you now, Igor :) The idea that I *proposed* during Pharo days is to make BlShape polymorphic with what athens have. I did not implement it yet I work on it just right now. I suppose that I explained me wrong to Stef and he started thinking that it is *already*

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 13:14, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > Hello Igor > > I would like to apologize for my bad tone in previous email. I > misunderstood your good will to help and improve design by finding special > cases that we didn't manage to cover. I indeed would like to show

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 13:27, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > It is indeed logical :) > > However, in most UI of applications (in web, mobile) it is extremely rare > that clipping or event handling areas differ from drawing one (visual one - > one that user sees in the end). > > But

Re: [Pharo-dev] GSoC alternative: SOCIS

Or a project for SciSmalltalk? That seems like the most relevant of all proposals on gsoc.pharo.org. Here's a list of mentoring organizations of last year: http://sophia.estec.esa.int/socis2015/?q=node/13 Note GNU Octave. Or IPFS, _interplanetary_ file system ;). But that is taking the name too

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

It is indeed logical :) However, in most UI of applications (in web, mobile) it is extremely rare that clipping or event handling areas differ from drawing one (visual one - one that user sees in the end). Do you agree with that and also that in most cases we want to change them all together

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

2016-04-02 16:56 GMT+02:00 stepharo : > Hi > > I want a square morph with a circle or a line at 45 degree inside > Now I do not get it. > > I thought that I needed to specialize drawOnAthensCanvas: so I did > > BlCell >> drawOnAthensCanvas: aCanvas > > super

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Hi 2016-04-03 11:08 GMT+02:00 Aliaksei Syrel : > If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override one single > method. > > Everything you wrote with unreadable amount of characters is for nothing. > I see clearly point of Igor. And for me it feels very logical.

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Hi Alex, Thanks for this :) Cheers, Doru > On Apr 3, 2016, at 12:14 PM, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > > Hello Igor > > I would like to apologize for my bad tone in previous email. I misunderstood > your good will to help and improve design by finding special cases that we

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Hello Igor I would like to apologize for my bad tone in previous email. I misunderstood your good will to help and improve design by finding special cases that we didn't manage to cover. I indeed would like to show you that design sounds. Let's play with more concrete examples. To start let's

Re: [Pharo-dev] GSoC alternative: SOCIS

Looks interesting. But then we need someone to “sell” pharo as a space-related OS project… I mean, it’s not hard, just talk about remote debugging and live update (project of Max Mattone). But someone has to do it. And also someone has to propose the projects around this topics. Cheers. Uko >

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 12:08, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override one single > method. > it is not about just clicking behavior. Sure i can override every single method to get behavior i want, at any point in system i need. Then

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

If you want to change clicking behaviour you need to override one single method. Everything you wrote with unreadable amount of characters is for nothing. All mentioned stuff is possible. On Apr 3, 2016 10:30 AM, "Igor Stasenko" wrote: > > > On 3 April 2016 at 10:18, Tudor

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

On 3 April 2016 at 10:18, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi Igor, > > Thanks for this nice description :). > > Indeed, the Shape in Bloc is primarily a clipping shape that knows how to > draw the path around and to fill itself. Of course, it also handles the > interaction. > > When

Re: [Pharo-dev] [bloc] shape size?

Hi Igor, Thanks for this nice description :). Indeed, the Shape in Bloc is primarily a clipping shape that knows how to draw the path around and to fill itself. Of course, it also handles the interaction. When you want to have a composition, you are encouraged to create multiple elements