Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[stepharo]

nativeboost is not maintained and we need a solution that can be 
maintained by multiple people.
Normally with the new FFI esteban is doing you will be able to use the 
NativeBoost syntax.


Bye
T.

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Torsten Bergmann]

Sven wrote:
> OK, that works, thanks.
> 
> Pretty straightforward NativeBoost based code, small.
> 
> I seem to be missing the platform independence code (but I only care for OS X 
> and Linux for my projects).
> 
> How does this relate to OSProcess ? Why did you start it ? What is the goal ?


OSProcess is nice - but it requires a plugin, compilation, etc. It also only 
covers some basic functions
that are sharable for platforms. Using NativeBoost allows for speed and easy 
changeability in Pharo itself.

I started "OS" because I required more and more things from Windows that 
OSProcess can never cover. Later
beside "OS-Windows" I added other platforms like "OS-Unix"/"OS-Ubuntu".

The "OS" project tries to provide the same interface for things that are close 
in each operating
system but still includes things that are available on specific platforms only 
like Windows.

For instance in Windows there is the Windows registry - you can access it with 
this project. It would
not make sense to have this for Unix systems. Another example: the 
OS-Linux-Ubuntu-Environment package 
includes a class UbuntuShell that you can use the open the gnome system 
monitor. You can use it if
you are on this particular platform by evaluating

   UbuntuShell systemMonitor

If on another platform it would not make sense to use it.

Still while allowing to be as much "as native" as possible with the platform it 
is/should be possible to keep 
some kind of "platform independence". This could be done by using same naming 
and compatibility could be enforced by
Tests (because of the lack of "interfaces" in Smalltalk) and similar naming:

  UnixProcess currentProcessId
  WinProcess currentProcessId

Anything other is explained in 
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~OS/OS-Windows

I hoped other jumped onto the bandwagon to help because at least on Mac I'm 
currently lost (until I access to 
an iOS machine).

Currently I do not invest too much into it - especially because of this bad 
feeling that was given 
that NativeBoost might not be continued and I heard about planes on refocusing 
back to (slower) FFI later. 

So far NativeBoost served all my needs well and it would be a pitty if I would 
have to redo 
all bindings later. :(

Bye
T.

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Torsten Bergmann]

Sven wrote:
> OK, that works, thanks.
> 
> Pretty straightforward NativeBoost based code, small.
> 
> I seem to be missing the platform independence code (but I only care for OS X 
> and Linux for my projects).
> 
> How does this relate to OSProcess ? Why did you start it ? What is the goal ?


OSProcess is nice - but it requires a plugin, compilation, etc. It also only 
covers some basic functions
that are sharable for platforms. Using NativeBoost allows for speed and easy 
changeability in Pharo itself.

I started "OS" because I required more and more things from Windows that 
OSProcess does not cover. Later
beside "OS-Windows" I added other platforms like "OS-Unix"/"OS-Ubuntu".

The "OS" project tries to provide the same interface for things that are close 
in each operating
system but still includes things that are available on specific platforms only 
like Windows.

For instance in Windows there is the Windows registry - you can access it with 
this project. It would
not make sense to have this for Unix systems. Another example: the 
OS-Linux-Ubuntu-Environment package 
includes a class UbuntuShell that you can use the open the gnome system 
monitor. You can use it if
you are on this particular platform by evaluating

   UbuntuShell systemMonitor

If on another platform it would not make sense to use it.

Still while allowing to be as much "as native" as possible with the platform it 
is/should be possible to keep 
some kind of "platform independence". This could be done by using same naming 
and compatibility could be enforced by
Tests (because of the lack of "interfaces" in Smalltalk) and similar naming:

  UnixProcess currentProcessId
  WinProcess currentProcessId

Anything other is explained in 
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~OS/OS-Windows

I hoped other jumped onto the bandwagon to help because at least on Mac I'm 
currently lost (until I access to 
an iOS machine).

Currently I do not invest too much into it - especially because of this bad 
feeling that was given 
that NativeBoost might not be continued and I heard about planes on refocusing 
back to (slower) FFI later. 

So far NativeBoost served all my needs well and it would be a pitty if I would 
have to redo 
all bindings later. :(

Bye
T.

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Martin Dias]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 7:00 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>
>
> > On 14 Sep 2015, at 18:46, David T. Lewis  wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
>  On 14 Sep 2015, at 14:21, David T. Lewis  wrote:
> 
> 
>  No, OSProcess should not be included in the image. It is intended to be
>  an external package.
> >>>
> >>> mmm… we want to include it as more and more people requires it and we
> >>> can profit from having it in the image (same as FFI).
> >>> why do you think it should be external?
> >>
> >> We should distinguish between having it traditionally-in-Image where
> >> that is the only place it exists and fixes are integrated, and the
> >> current trend (e.g. in-Image Glamorous Tools) where fixes are
> >> integrated "upstream" into an external package
> >>
> >
> > Yes, that is what I meant.
> >
> > Dave
>
> Several packages are in that situation: Zinc, STON, FUEL, ... it works quite 
> well.

In fact, Fuel was integrated in the "traditionally-in-Image" style,
but at some point we could switch to the new trend.

Martín

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 14 Sep 2015, at 14:21, David T. Lewis  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 02:08:54PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
>> 
>>> On 14 Sep 2015, at 11:12, Skip Lentz  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Is there a way to get the operating system PID of the running Pharo VM 
 from inside the image ?
>>> 
>>> If I???m not mistaken, it is what OSProcess is for. I think this should be 
>>> it:
>>> 
 OSProcess thisOSProcess pid.
>>> 
>>> The comment of thisOSProcess says:
>>> 
>>> "Answer a single instance of the class corresponding to the OS process in 
>>> which this Smalltalk image is executing."
>> 
>> OK, that seems to works in Pharo 5. Thanks.
>> 
>> I don't know the overall status of OSProcess in Pharo though. Is is 100% 
>> supported in all current versions, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ? Is it based on a 
>> plugin or on native boost ? Should it be included by default ?
>> 
> 
> It should be working in all Pharo versions. It is based on a VM plugin.
> 
> I am the author of OSProcess, and I try to keep it working in Pharo as well
> as Squeak. Thierry Goubier also works on OSProcess for Pharo (and he has write
> access to the repository).
> 
> No, OSProcess should not be included in the image. It is intended to be
> an external package.

mmm… we want to include it as more and more people requires it and we can 
profit from having it in the image (same as FFI). 
why do you think it should be external?

Esteban

> 
> Dave
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 14 Sep 2015, at 14:08, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 14 Sep 2015, at 11:12, Skip Lentz  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Is there a way to get the operating system PID of the running Pharo VM from 
>>> inside the image ?
>> 
>> If I’m not mistaken, it is what OSProcess is for. I think this should be it:
>> 
>>> OSProcess thisOSProcess pid.
>> 
>> The comment of thisOSProcess says:
>> 
>> "Answer a single instance of the class corresponding to the OS process in 
>> which this Smalltalk image is executing."
> 
> OK, that seems to works in Pharo 5. Thanks.
> 
> I don't know the overall status of OSProcess in Pharo though. Is is 100% 
> supported in all current versions, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ? Is it based on a plugin 
> or on native boost ? Should it be included by default ?

100%
Plugin
yes it should :)

Esteban

ps: But the plugin has some problems in windows. So, it is supported 100% of 
the support it provides… so we need to improve that :P

> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[David T. Lewis]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 02:08:54PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
> 
> > On 14 Sep 2015, at 11:12, Skip Lentz  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> On Sep 14, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> Is there a way to get the operating system PID of the running Pharo VM 
> >> from inside the image ?
> > 
> > If I???m not mistaken, it is what OSProcess is for. I think this should be 
> > it:
> > 
> >> OSProcess thisOSProcess pid.
> > 
> > The comment of thisOSProcess says:
> > 
> > "Answer a single instance of the class corresponding to the OS process in 
> > which this Smalltalk image is executing."
> 
> OK, that seems to works in Pharo 5. Thanks.
> 
> I don't know the overall status of OSProcess in Pharo though. Is is 100% 
> supported in all current versions, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ? Is it based on a plugin 
> or on native boost ? Should it be included by default ?
> 

It should be working in all Pharo versions. It is based on a VM plugin.

I am the author of OSProcess, and I try to keep it working in Pharo as well
as Squeak. Thierry Goubier also works on OSProcess for Pharo (and he has write
access to the repository).

No, OSProcess should not be included in the image. It is intended to be
an external package.

Dave

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[p...@highoctane.be]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
wrote:

>
> > On 14 Sep 2015, at 14:21, David T. Lewis  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 02:08:54PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 14 Sep 2015, at 11:12, Skip Lentz  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Sep 14, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe 
> wrote:
> 
>  Hi,
> 
>  Is there a way to get the operating system PID of the running Pharo
> VM from inside the image ?
> >>>
> >>> If I???m not mistaken, it is what OSProcess is for. I think this
> should be it:
> >>>
>  OSProcess thisOSProcess pid.
> >>>
> >>> The comment of thisOSProcess says:
> >>>
> >>> "Answer a single instance of the class corresponding to the OS process
> in which this Smalltalk image is executing."
> >>
> >> OK, that seems to works in Pharo 5. Thanks.
> >>
> >> I don't know the overall status of OSProcess in Pharo though. Is is
> 100% supported in all current versions, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ? Is it based on a
> plugin or on native boost ? Should it be included by default ?
> >>
> >
> > It should be working in all Pharo versions. It is based on a VM plugin.
> >
> > I am the author of OSProcess, and I try to keep it working in Pharo as
> well
> > as Squeak. Thierry Goubier also works on OSProcess for Pharo (and he has
> write
> > access to the repository).
> >
> > No, OSProcess should not be included in the image. It is intended to be
> > an external package.
>
> mmm… we want to include it as more and more people requires it and we can
> profit from having it in the image (same as FFI).
> why do you think it should be external?
>

Would be nice to have it in. It is one of the first things I load in my
images. How else can we access environment variables, pids, ... ?
Beware: some version have issues of performance (in Pharo3).

Phil

>
> Esteban
>
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Ben Coman]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>
>> On 14 Sep 2015, at 14:21, David T. Lewis  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 02:08:54PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
>>>
 On 14 Sep 2015, at 11:12, Skip Lentz  wrote:


> On Sep 14, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Is there a way to get the operating system PID of the running Pharo VM 
> from inside the image ?

 If I???m not mistaken, it is what OSProcess is for. I think this should be 
 it:

> OSProcess thisOSProcess pid.

 The comment of thisOSProcess says:

 "Answer a single instance of the class corresponding to the OS process in 
 which this Smalltalk image is executing."
>>>
>>> OK, that seems to works in Pharo 5. Thanks.
>>>
>>> I don't know the overall status of OSProcess in Pharo though. Is is 100% 
>>> supported in all current versions, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ? Is it based on a 
>>> plugin or on native boost ? Should it be included by default ?
>>>
>>
>> It should be working in all Pharo versions. It is based on a VM plugin.
>>
>> I am the author of OSProcess, and I try to keep it working in Pharo as well
>> as Squeak. Thierry Goubier also works on OSProcess for Pharo (and he has 
>> write
>> access to the repository).
>>
>> No, OSProcess should not be included in the image. It is intended to be
>> an external package.
>
> mmm… we want to include it as more and more people requires it and we can 
> profit from having it in the image (same as FFI).
> why do you think it should be external?

We should distinguish between having it traditionally-in-Image where
that is the only place it exists and fixes are integrated, and the
current trend (e.g. in-Image Glamorous Tools) where fixes are
integrated "upstream" into an external package

cheer -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

> On 14 Sep 2015, at 11:11, Torsten Bergmann  wrote:
> 
> Did anyone ever look at my OS projects at http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~OS
> where I try to unify the native platforms (to keep platform independence) 
> while on the other side allow to use native functionality as much as possible:
> 
> 
> Gofer it
>   smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'MetaRepoForPharo40';
>   configurationOf: 'OSUnix';
>   loadVersion: #stable.
> 
> =>  UnixProcess currentProcessId

OK, that works, thanks.

Pretty straightforward NativeBoost based code, small.

I seem to be missing the platform independence code (but I only care for OS X 
and Linux for my projects).

How does this relate to OSProcess ? Why did you start it ? What is the goal ?

> Gofer it
>   smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'MetaRepoForPharo40';
>   configurationOf: 'OSWindows';
>   loadVersion: #stable.
>   
> =>  WinProcess currentProcessId
> 
> Have fun
> T.
> 
>> Gesendet: Montag, 14. September 2015 um 11:04 Uhr
>> Von: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" 
>> An: "Pharo Development List" 
>> Betreff: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Is there a way to get the operating system PID of the running Pharo VM from 
>> inside the image ?
>> 
>> If not, I think that would be a nice addition.
>> 
>> Sven
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

> On 14 Sep 2015, at 11:12, Skip Lentz  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Is there a way to get the operating system PID of the running Pharo VM from 
>> inside the image ?
> 
> If I’m not mistaken, it is what OSProcess is for. I think this should be it:
> 
>> OSProcess thisOSProcess pid.
> 
> The comment of thisOSProcess says:
> 
> "Answer a single instance of the class corresponding to the OS process in 
> which this Smalltalk image is executing."

OK, that seems to works in Pharo 5. Thanks.

I don't know the overall status of OSProcess in Pharo though. Is is 100% 
supported in all current versions, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ? Is it based on a plugin 
or on native boost ? Should it be included by default ?

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 14 Sep 2015, at 15:18, Ben Coman  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Esteban Lorenzano  > wrote:
>> 
>>> On 14 Sep 2015, at 14:21, David T. Lewis  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 02:08:54PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
 
> On 14 Sep 2015, at 11:12, Skip Lentz  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Is there a way to get the operating system PID of the running Pharo VM 
>> from inside the image ?
> 
> If I???m not mistaken, it is what OSProcess is for. I think this should 
> be it:
> 
>> OSProcess thisOSProcess pid.
> 
> The comment of thisOSProcess says:
> 
> "Answer a single instance of the class corresponding to the OS process in 
> which this Smalltalk image is executing."
 
 OK, that seems to works in Pharo 5. Thanks.
 
 I don't know the overall status of OSProcess in Pharo though. Is is 100% 
 supported in all current versions, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ? Is it based on a 
 plugin or on native boost ? Should it be included by default ?
 
>>> 
>>> It should be working in all Pharo versions. It is based on a VM plugin.
>>> 
>>> I am the author of OSProcess, and I try to keep it working in Pharo as well
>>> as Squeak. Thierry Goubier also works on OSProcess for Pharo (and he has 
>>> write
>>> access to the repository).
>>> 
>>> No, OSProcess should not be included in the image. It is intended to be
>>> an external package.
>> 
>> mmm… we want to include it as more and more people requires it and we can 
>> profit from having it in the image (same as FFI).
>> why do you think it should be external?
> 
> We should distinguish between having it traditionally-in-Image where
> that is the only place it exists and fixes are integrated, and the
> current trend (e.g. in-Image Glamorous Tools) where fixes are
> integrated "upstream" into an external package

as you maybe noticed, we are slowly moving to an “all is configured” scheme. 
Which means everything included in image is both included AND external :)
the first step of that is not accepting framework contributions without their 
configurations… of course that means our tools need to improve because there 
are badly prepared to the task… but we are doing it. 
In an ideal world, Pharo will be a small kernel + a list of modules included 
through configurations (it will take time, but we will be there).

Esteban


> 
> cheer -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

> On 14 Sep 2015, at 18:46, David T. Lewis  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 On 14 Sep 2015, at 14:21, David T. Lewis  wrote:
 
 
 No, OSProcess should not be included in the image. It is intended to be
 an external package.
>>> 
>>> mmm… we want to include it as more and more people requires it and we
>>> can profit from having it in the image (same as FFI).
>>> why do you think it should be external?
>> 
>> We should distinguish between having it traditionally-in-Image where
>> that is the only place it exists and fixes are integrated, and the
>> current trend (e.g. in-Image Glamorous Tools) where fixes are
>> integrated "upstream" into an external package
>> 
> 
> Yes, that is what I meant.
> 
> Dave

Several packages are in that situation: Zinc, STON, FUEL, ... it works quite 
well.

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[David T. Lewis]

> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14 Sep 2015, at 14:21, David T. Lewis  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> No, OSProcess should not be included in the image. It is intended to be
>>> an external package.
>>
>> mmm… we want to include it as more and more people requires it and we
>> can profit from having it in the image (same as FFI).
>> why do you think it should be external?
>
> We should distinguish between having it traditionally-in-Image where
> that is the only place it exists and fixes are integrated, and the
> current trend (e.g. in-Image Glamorous Tools) where fixes are
> integrated "upstream" into an external package
>

Yes, that is what I meant.

Dave

Re: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?

[Torsten Bergmann]

Did anyone ever look at my OS projects at http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~OS
where I try to unify the native platforms (to keep platform independence) 
while on the other side allow to use native functionality as much as possible:


Gofer it
smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'MetaRepoForPharo40';
configurationOf: 'OSUnix';
loadVersion: #stable.

=>  UnixProcess currentProcessId



Gofer it
smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'MetaRepoForPharo40';
configurationOf: 'OSWindows';
loadVersion: #stable.

=>  WinProcess currentProcessId

Have fun
T.

> Gesendet: Montag, 14. September 2015 um 11:04 Uhr
> Von: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" 
> An: "Pharo Development List" 
> Betreff: [Pharo-dev] PID of VM ?
>
> Hi,
> 
> Is there a way to get the operating system PID of the running Pharo VM from 
> inside the image ?
> 
> If not, I think that would be a nice addition.
> 
> Sven
> 
> 
>