[Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo
My father who started collecting in the 1950's also had only those 2 books. Those were the only ones available at the time. The books I have, my father's, are both first editions. But not in great shape since he obviously used them! Inside the Tinfoil to Stereo is a printed letter from A.Nugent of Va., who states that the publisher discontinued the book, and that he had gotten several hundred copies which he was selling...that since it was so popular and one of the only books on the subject, he didn't know how long the copies would last before sell-out. :) Ger ger55 on ebay; ge...@comcast.net Victorian Glass Plus! http://www.tias.com/stores/vgpp http://groups.yahoo.com/group/glass_antique_and_old/ - Original Message - From: DeeDee Blais To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:38 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo For those that get tired of stories from back when I was a new collector, you can tune out now. When I started collecting in the early 70's, the only books that were available were Tinfoil to Stereo first printed in 1959 and The Fabulous Phonograph first printed in 1954. I was introduced to both those books by Ira Dueltgen. He had an extra copy of The Fabulous Phonograph that he gave or sold me at a modest price. I was disappointed to find out that Tinfoil was out of print and I had to wait what seemed like forever before the second edition was available. When I was looking for the photo of the Diamond Disk with the loud speaking attachment I checked the inside cover and found that my copy came through several collectors. On the inside cover it says: Received 1-13-66, Purchased from A. Nugent Jr. 3804 Charles City Rd. Richmond, Va. Property of H. Claire Carpenter Sr. Sold to Ira Dueltgen by Mr. Carpenter's widow Purchased from Ira by John Davis in 1978 ... gift from John Davis to Jerry Blais 12-11-2006. I sold my second edition copy of Tinfoil from a posting on phono-l some time ago. We have so many wonderful phonograph books. My only difficulty today is trying to process so much information. Happy collecting, Jerry Blais Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ge...@comcast.net Wed Mar 12 01:53:12 2008 From: ge...@comcast.net (ger) Date: Wed Mar 12 00:53:22 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records Message-ID: 002a01c8841e$818d8540$6c9fe...@ger1 What does one do with moldy wax records? Throw them away? Or save them for the interesting titles, with hopes that someday someone will figure out how to fix them? :) Thanks, Ger
[Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone
There is no doubt that this was work of a deranged mad man, to create this ultimate CRAPANOLA!! - Original Message - From: est...@localnet.com To: phonol...@yahoogroups.com; phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 11:05 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone This one is the worst I've seen yet- has two reproduction Columbia decals, and looks like a Grafonola case was sacrificed for this abortion. http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-VINTAGE-STYLE-COLUMBIA-REPLICA-PHONOGRAPH_W0QQitemZ140214953262QQihZ004QQcategoryZ38028QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo
You are lucky to have been given that book. I was one of a very few who took From Tin Foil To Stereo out of our library. I used to know the exact spot on the shelf where it resided. One day, I went in to borrow it only to learn that it had disappeared! Someday I'll find an affordable (i.e. inexpensive or free) copy. 8-) Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of John Maeder Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:13 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo I am proud that Ken Blazier gave me his copy of 'From Tinfoil To Stereo' that was given to him by Elmer Moore (a first generation Southern California collector). Both their names are inside with dedications from each generation to the next. Ken passed away earlier this winter, for those of you who may not know. I also have Del Hahn's copy of 'Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion'. Del passed away early last year. Elmer was before my time in SoCal but heard many stories about him. I knew Ken and Del well and thought very highly of them both. I really treasure those books! When I was a kid (I started collecting at age 10), I used to check a 1954 edition of 'Fabulous Phonograph' out of the Ft. Knox (Ky.) library. The librarian told me I was the only person that had ever checked it out! On one visit when I was about 13 or 14, she gave it to me stamped 'discarded'. I still have it. Kind regards, John Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:38:39 -0700 From: deedeebl...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo For those that get tired of stories from back when I was a new collector, you can tune out now. When I started collecting in the early 70's, the only books that were available were Tinfoil to Stereo first printed in 1959 and The Fabulous Phonograph first printed in 1954. I was introduced to both those books by Ira Dueltgen. He had an extra copy of The Fabulous Phonograph that he gave or sold me at a modest price. I was disappointed to find out that Tinfoil was out of print and I had to wait what seemed like forever before the second edition was available. When I was looking for the photo of the Diamond Disk with the loud speaking attachment I checked the inside cover and found that my copy came through several collectors. On the inside cover it says: Received 1-13-66, Purchased from A. Nugent Jr. 3804 Charles City Rd. Richmond, Va. Property of H. Claire Carpenter Sr. Sold to Ira Dueltgen by Mr. Carpenter's widow Purchased from Ira by John Davis in 1978 ... gift from John Davis to Jerry Blais 12-11-2006. I sold my second edition copy of Tinfoil from a posting on phono-l some time ago. We have so many wonderful phonograph books. My only difficulty today is trying to process so much information. Happy collecting, Jerry Blais Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone
The only problem is there are many items for sale on eBay that are very poorly described. Sometimes to the buyers benefit and sometimes not. These people who spend all week going to auctions and buying everything that you can ship UPS without breaking are not going to invest the time or effort into finding out what they have and what the value might be. And some are more honest and ethical than others and will correct an obviously incorrect listing. John Maeder wrote: I emailed these sellers about an hour or two and nicely told them what it was, since they had it listed as being the real thing. A day later I received an email saying they would look into it. 24 hours later it was still up with no changes to the listing. I couldn't help but notice Buy From Someone You Can Trust at the top of their page so I emailed back again simply quoting their logo with five question marks after it. Still no change to the listing. Yesterday afternoon, I emailed them and bluntly told them what it was again and asked why they hadn't changed the listing in light of their slogan. I finally received an email bank and was told I was impolite and simply showing off my knowledge, that they were not experts on everything, etc. I emailed them back and told them that in the age of Google, Wikipedia, and the internet in general, not accurately identifying what you have to sell and interpreting that accurately in an eBay listing is not excusable. I to ld them I thought it was far more impolite to mislead for profit, and if done intentionally, it is so impolite that it is fraud -- a felony. I gave the example of the time I sold a quantity of antique marbles on eBay and had to educate myself on the subject so I could describe them accurately. Am I now an expert on marbles? -- no. All I remember is that lutz swirls brought the most, and they came in different sizes, but I took the time and trouble to learn what I had in order to sell it. I asked them if they did not see the irony in Buy From Someone You Can Trust at the top of their page relative to their Frankenphone. I only apologized for not sugar-coating the truth about their item enough for them to be able to swallow it. Just a short time later, the auction was ended and now it has been re-listed with a new description. You just can't help some people without a battle! Like trying to save someone who's drowning. Impolite . . . me? I don't give a cr*p's a** -- I've got too many years in this hobby and care too much about it to have much tolerance for money-grubbing morons mucking it up. Thanks! I feel better now! John (the phono-curmudgeon) From rich-m...@octoxol.com Wed Mar 12 05:58:51 2008 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Wed Mar 12 06:00:45 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records In-Reply-To: 002a01c8841e$818d8540$6c9fe...@ger1 References: 002a01c8841e$818d8540$6c9fe...@ger1 Message-ID: 47d7d38b.30...@octoxol.com You put a group of 6 up on eBay and clearly state that they will not play - moldy! They will sell. If there are boxes people will buy the records for the boxes. Just do not trash them! ger wrote: What does one do with moldy wax records? Throw them away? Or save them for the interesting titles, with hopes that someday someone will figure out how to fix them? :) Thanks, Ger ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lhera...@bu.edu Wed Mar 12 06:24:52 2008 From: lhera...@bu.edu (Ron L) Date: Wed Mar 12 06:25:38 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records In-Reply-To: 002a01c8841e$818d8540$6c9fe...@ger1 References: 002a01c8841e$818d8540$6c9fe...@ger1 Message-ID: 002301c88444$74811bc0$90d42...@ad.bu.edu You can't fix them since the mold has eaten away the sound information. However, they can be shaved and used for blanks to re-record. I only do this if they are completely unintelligible. I sometimes digitize what I can here before I shave them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of ger Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:53 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records What does one do with moldy wax records? Throw them away? Or save them for the interesting titles, with hopes that someday someone will figure out how to fix them? :) Thanks, Ger ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone
They did AFTER they finally stopped the original auction where it was being presented as authentic. If you read my post, I say that, and they only re-listed it after I emailed them three times. You are looking at the re-listed item, Rich. John From: timsanti...@northstate.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:34:39 -0400 He clearly states it is made from several differant machines. He states the word REPLICA at least three times. problem is? Tim - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:35 AM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone I emailed these sellers about an hour or two and nicely told them what it was, since they had it listed as being the real thing. A day later I received an email saying they would look into it. 24 hours later it was still up with no changes to the listing. I couldn't help but notice Buy From Someone You Can Trust at the top of their page so I emailed back again simply quoting their logo with five question marks after it. Still no change to the listing. Yesterday afternoon, I emailed them and bluntly told them what it was again and asked why they hadn't changed the listing in light of their slogan. I finally received an email bank and was told I was impolite and simply showing off my knowledge, that they were not experts on everything, etc. I emailed them back and told them that in the age of Google, Wikipedia, and the internet in general, not accurately identifying what you have to sell and interpreting that accurately in an eBay listing is not excusable. I told them I thought it was far more impolite to mislead for profit, and if done intentionally, it is so impolite that it is fraud -- a felony. I gave the example of the time I sold a quantity of antique marbles on eBay and had to educate myself on the subject so I could describe them accurately. Am I now an expert on marbles? -- no. All I remember is that lutz swirls brought the most, and they came in different sizes, but I took the time and trouble to learn what I had in order to sell it. I asked them if they did not see the irony in Buy From Someone You Can Trust at the top of their page relative to their Frankenphone. I only apologized for not sugar-coating the truth about their item enough for them to be able to swallow it. Just a short time later, the auction was ended and now it has been re-listed with a new description. You just can't help some people without a battle! Like trying to save someone who's drowning. Impolite . . . me? I don't give a cr*p's a** -- I've got too many years in this hobby and care too much about it to have much tolerance for money-grubbing morons mucking it up. Thanks! I feel better now! John (the phono-curmudgeon) From: bruce78...@comcast.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:05:07 -0400 There is no doubt that this was work of a deranged mad man, to create this ultimate CRAPANOLA!! - Original Message - From: est...@localnet.com To: phonol...@yahoogroups.com; phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 11:05 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone This one is the worst I've seen yet- has two reproduction Columbia decals, and looks like a Grafonola case was sacrificed for this abortion. http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-VINTAGE-STYLE-COLUMBIA-REPLICA-PHONOGRAPH_W0QQitemZ140214953262QQihZ004QQcategoryZ38028QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From appywan...@hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 07:17:07 2008 From: appywan...@hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Wed Mar 12 07:28:46 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo In-Reply-To: 001e01c8843f$1bda3330$90d42...@ad.bu.edu References: 382354.90473...@web37009.mail.mud.yahoo.com blu112-w502c29804de9503fe5035cdc...@phx.gbl 001e01c8843f$1bda3330$90d42...@ad.bu.edu Message-ID: blu112-w540794053a7bcfb616dc20dc...@phx.gbl The copy of FTFTS in the Louisville library had been stolen when I was younger. An old antique dealer on Market Street named Henry Sexton who sold phonos and music boxes had a copy that he would let me look at. John From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:46:36 -0400 You are lucky to have been given that book. I was one of a very
[Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone
I have not bothered to look at the auction at all. I was making a GENERAL comment regarding eBay auctions and sellers in general. If you read what I wrote again you will notice that I commented on the ethical quality of some sellers, but not all. John Maeder wrote: They did AFTER they finally stopped the original auction where it was being presented as authentic. If you read my post, I say that, and they only re-listed it after I emailed them three times. You are looking at the re-listed item, Rich. John From pjfra...@alamedanet.net Wed Mar 12 07:57:47 2008 From: pjfra...@alamedanet.net (Peter Fraser) Date: Wed Mar 12 08:01:09 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records In-Reply-To: 002301c88444$74811bc0$90d42...@ad.bu.edu References: 002a01c8841e$818d8540$6c9fe...@ger1 002301c88444$74811bc0$90d42...@ad.bu.edu Message-ID: d5705e94-253e-478d-845f-aa0eb1abe...@alamedanet.net no, you can't shave and record on black wax, only brown. On Mar 12, 2008, at 6:24 AM, Ron L wrote: You can't fix them since the mold has eaten away the sound information. However, they can be shaved and used for blanks to re-record. I only do this if they are completely unintelligible. I sometimes digitize what I can here before I shave them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of ger Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:53 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records What does one do with moldy wax records? Throw them away? Or save them for the interesting titles, with hopes that someday someone will figure out how to fix them? :) Thanks, Ger ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone
He was actually talking to Tim, Rich. He just put the wrong name. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone I have not bothered to look at the auction at all. I was making a GENERAL comment regarding eBay auctions and sellers in general. If you read what I wrote again you will notice that I commented on the ethical quality of some sellers, but not all. John Maeder wrote: They did AFTER they finally stopped the original auction where it was being presented as authentic. If you read my post, I say that, and they only re-listed it after I emailed them three times. You are looking at the re-listed item, Rich. John ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Moldy wax records
You can shave the black wax records if you treat them with a softening solvent. On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Peter Fraser wrote: no, you can't shave and record on black wax, only brown. On Mar 12, 2008, at 6:24 AM, Ron L wrote: You can't fix them since the mold has eaten away the sound information. However, they can be shaved and used for blanks to re-record. I only do this if they are completely unintelligible. I sometimes digitize what I can here before I shave them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of ger Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:53 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records What does one do with moldy wax records? Throw them away? Or save them for the interesting titles, with hopes that someday someone will figure out how to fix them? :) Thanks, Ger ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Moldy wax records
What I've been told is that there are small voids or bubbles in black wax, which causes crackle. Sent from my iPhone -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com On Mar 12, 2008, at 8:55 AM, Ron L lhera...@bu.edu wrote: Ah, yes, Black wax is another story. For some reason, I was just thinking about brown wax. I've heard that you can erase a black wax cylinder with paint thinner on a rag but I have not tried it and have not tried making a new recording on such a surface. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Peter Fraser Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:58 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records no, you can't shave and record on black wax, only brown. On Mar 12, 2008, at 6:24 AM, Ron L wrote: You can't fix them since the mold has eaten away the sound information. However, they can be shaved and used for blanks to re-record. I only do this if they are completely unintelligible. I sometimes digitize what I can here before I shave them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of ger Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:53 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records What does one do with moldy wax records? Throw them away? Or save them for the interesting titles, with hopes that someday someone will figure out how to fix them? :) Thanks, Ger ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From deedeebl...@yahoo.com Wed Mar 12 10:15:23 2008 From: deedeebl...@yahoo.com (DeeDee Blais) Date: Wed Mar 12 10:19:38 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Early Collectors Message-ID: 442621.39960...@web37013.mail.mud.yahoo.com I'm sorry to hear that we lost Ken Blazier and Del Hahn. I had the good fortune to get acquainted with both of them from attending the early CAPS shows in the 80's. I was invited to both their homes and enjoyed seeing their collections. Both had fine collections but I was totally amazed to see two consecutively numbered Edison Operas in Ken's collection. Wow! Jerry Blais Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From deedeebl...@yahoo.com Wed Mar 12 10:37:19 2008 From: deedeebl...@yahoo.com (DeeDee Blais) Date: Wed Mar 12 10:37:36 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Shameless Plug for MAPS and CAPS! Message-ID: 474524.21895...@web37003.mail.mud.yahoo.com I hope everyone in phono-l is a member of CAPS and MAPS. They are both wonderful clubs that promote and inform our hobby. Please contact: Michigan Antique Phonograph Society 60 Central Street Battle Creek, Michigan 49017 (Dues are only $25 and include the monthly newsletter.) California Antique Phonograph Society PO Box 169 Victorville, California 92393 (Dues are only $25 and include a wonderful quarterly newsletter) I can't say enough good things about both clubs and would encourage membership in both. I'm pleased to see that fellow phono-l member George Paul is Vice President of CAPS. Jerry Blais Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From a...@popyrus.com Wed Mar 12 10:50:49 2008 From: a...@popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Wed Mar 12 10:52:53 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records In-Reply-To: 47ce62c6-7335-4246-aa7a-794fde46c...@tampabay.rr.com References: 002a01c8841e$818d8540$6c9fe...@ger1 002301c88444$74811bc0$90d42...@ad.bu.edu d5705e94-253e-478d-845f-aa0eb1abe...@alamedanet.net 47ce62c6-7335-4246-aa7a-794fde46c...@tampabay.rr.com Message-ID: d5c53365-f5c4-4863-8a1f-36cbe0865...@popyrus.com What are the best solvents for this? Andy On Mar 12, 2008, at 9:35 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: You can shave the black wax records if you treat them with a softening solvent. On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Peter Fraser wrote: no, you can't shave and record on black wax, only brown. On Mar 12, 2008, at 6:24 AM, Ron L wrote: You can't fix them since the mold has eaten away the sound information. However, they can be shaved and used for blanks to re-record. I only do this if they are completely unintelligible. I sometimes digitize what I can here before I shave them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On
[Phono-L] Crapophones and The Buyers and The Dealers!
I agree with all of you. One must be careful in not only collecting phonographs, but collecting anything in general. This is especially true for the first timer that wants to jump into 'collecting.' I read an email from someone in this thread not long ago that used the adjective 'sleazy' to describe antique dealers. I would just like to say that not all antique dealers, just like car salesman and politicians, are dishonest. In fact, I have obtained some of my most prized antiques, including a phonograph or two from antique dealers. We must understand that there are many people that do not take the time to research a subject before heading into it head over heals. This includes both the seller as well as the buyer. An example of this was last summer when I attended a large estate auction in my area. The auctioneer advertised in the newspaper ad a nice vintage 'old' Victrola with a real nice 'old' horn. I tried to contact the auctioneer beforehand to ask some specifics so that I could find out if it was indeed a nice old phonograph. I could not reach him before the auction and was late getting to the sale the next day. By the time I got there, the phonograph was only moments from hitting the selling block. The nice vintage 'old' Victrola with a real nice 'old' horn turned out to be a nice old 'CRAPOLA'! As my six year old would say...YUCK! Before I could react, the auctioneer had already described it as the most beautiful Victrola that he had ever had the pleasure of auctioning off and that whoever was fortunate enough to win the bid would really have a prize! The crowd oooed and aawwed as if he were auctioning off the Hope Diamond. As soon as he started the bidding at $100.00, several hands flung toward the skies. I told the man next to me, that had his fingers brushing his mustache in mad anticipation of bidding, that this was a reproduction item and that is was a reproduction of the worst kind. I explained to him what a Crapola is and he said that I did not know what I was talking about as this was just like his great grandmother's wonderful Victrola. Yea, I know, a Victrola with a horn!! Anyway, I stood in total disbelief as the Crapola sold for over $1000.00!!! After the auction, I shared some lessons of learning (Phonograph 101) with the auctioneer. He did not want to hear it! He said that although he did not know that the item was not genuine, it was the buyers responsibility to know what he was bidding on. I could tell that the auctioneer really did not care as he only wanted the money. The buyer left with big smiles and could not wait to show off his new prized possession. He left in such a hurry that I could not get to him to share a little insight. Maybe it was a blessing as the smile and happiness that he showed of owning this 'prized' item was a true Kodak moment. Junk is out there. It always has and always will be. Unless one knows any better, junk will still sell. Some folks, like the auctioneer may not know any better, but as in the example, they sure don't care about learning. It's a buy at your own risk market! My hats off to anyone that tries to keep one from getting burned. Thanks to the individual in this group for taking the time to write the ebay seller as an effort to get the facts straight. As true lovers of these things called phonographs, and the fantastic joy that this hobby of collecting brings, it is our responsibility keep the hobby as honest and wholesome as possible. It begins with each individual. I continue to promote the hobby so that there will be collectors out there when we are gone. I am grateful that my daughters love the hobby and have already picked out which phonographs they want to put in their homes. In fact, they have names for each machine. My youngest daughter's favorite is the Victor 0 and she named it 'Sunny' when she was small. I have had the fortunes of meeting many nice people along the way that have not only sold me some nice pieces, but have educated me along the way. I hope to be a mentor as well. Don't get me wrong, I have also found those that are really in this hobby strictly for the money and will do some 'minor' under the table things to make a profit. If one stays in the hobby long enough, they learn about these individuals fast. News travels through the clubs! This is such a small profit for such a large price to pay. Hey, as we say here in South Carolina...Y'all are a great bunch! Thanks for all of the information ya'll bring to the hobby. Keep 'er running at 78rpms that is! Brantley /HTML From rich-m...@octoxol.com Wed Mar 12 11:29:17 2008 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Wed Mar 12 11:30:38 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone In-Reply-To: bay123-dav106de15d3979ee9f376d7eaa...@phx.gbl References: 20080311230543.vazzn9q144kwk...@webmail.localnet.com003501c88428$8e08d180$6401a...@user52c8f93503
[Phono-L] Moldy wax records
Heat softens the entire cylinder and does not make a mess. Steve Andersen wrote: I have not done this is many of years but I think I used turpentine. If you use the solvent with a rag (messy) you don't have to shave them. Sound quality won't be nearly as good on the black cylinders as with the brown cylinders because your recording on a harder wax cylinder. On Mar 12, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: What are the best solvents for this? Andy On Mar 12, 2008, at 9:35 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: You can shave the black wax records if you treat them with a softening solvent. On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Peter Fraser wrote: no, you can't shave and record on black wax, only brown. On Mar 12, 2008, at 6:24 AM, Ron L wrote: You can't fix them since the mold has eaten away the sound information. However, they can be shaved and used for blanks to re-record. I only do this if they are completely unintelligible. I sometimes digitize what I can here before I shave them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of ger Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:53 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Moldy wax records What does one do with moldy wax records? Throw them away? Or save them for the interesting titles, with hopes that someday someone will figure out how to fix them? :) Thanks, Ger ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cen...@comcast.net Wed Mar 12 12:12:07 2008 From: cen...@comcast.net (Albert) Date: Wed Mar 12 12:14:01 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Shameless Plug for MAPS and CAPS! References: 474524.21895...@web37003.mail.mud.yahoo.com Message-ID: 000c01c88474$f826e330$7501a...@albert And don' forget OTAPS (The Oregon Trail Antique Phonograph Society) The premier group for phonograph collectors from the Pacific Northwest.. - Original Message - From: DeeDee Blais deedeebl...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Shameless Plug for MAPS and CAPS! I hope everyone in phono-l is a member of CAPS and MAPS. They are both wonderful clubs that promote and inform our hobby. Please contact: Michigan Antique Phonograph Society 60 Central Street Battle Creek, Michigan 49017 (Dues are only $25 and include the monthly newsletter.) California Antique Phonograph Society PO Box 169 Victorville, California 92393 (Dues are only $25 and include a wonderful quarterly newsletter) I can't say enough good things about both clubs and would encourage membership in both. I'm pleased to see that fellow phono-l member George Paul is Vice President of CAPS. Jerry Blais Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone
I'm totally confused on who I was addressing. I thought it was Rich. Who's Tim? Sorry for any confusion. John Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:29:17 -0500 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone Well, I wondered I thought I was clear, but you never know. Robert Wright wrote: He was actually talking to Tim, Rich. He just put the wrong name. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone I have not bothered to look at the auction at all. I was making a GENERAL comment regarding eBay auctions and sellers in general. If you read what I wrote again you will notice that I commented on the ethical quality of some sellers, but not all. John Maeder wrote: They did AFTER they finally stopped the original auction where it was being presented as authentic. If you read my post, I say that, and they only re-listed it after I emailed them three times. You are looking at the re-listed item, Rich. John ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From bjohn...@mrvictor.com Wed Mar 12 14:02:47 2008 From: bjohn...@mrvictor.com (Bob Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 12 14:04:40 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Crapophones and The Buyers and The Dealers! In-Reply-To: 005701c88473$e7a8e450$90d42...@ad.bu.edu Message-ID: 200803122100.m2cl0ger016...@dish8.net.ibizdns.com Hey Ron L. email me about the Tin Foil to Stereo book. Bob Johnson bjohn...@mrvictor.com -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Ron L Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:05 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Crapophones and The Buyers and The Dealers! You are probably lucky that you did not get to talk to the fellow who had just blown $950 of that $1000. He would have thought that you were one of the loosing bidders trying to make him feel bad, at the very least. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of kugl...@wmconnect.com Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 2:17 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Crapophones and The Buyers and The Dealers! I agree with all of you. One must be careful in not only collecting phonographs, but collecting anything in general. This is especially true for the first timer that wants to jump into 'collecting.' I read an email from someone in this thread not long ago that used the adjective 'sleazy' to describe antique dealers. I would just like to say that not all antique dealers, just like car salesman and politicians, are dishonest. In fact, I have obtained some of my most prized antiques, including a phonograph or two from antique dealers. We must understand that there are many people that do not take the time to research a subject before heading into it head over heals. This includes both the seller as well as the buyer. An example of this was last summer when I attended a large estate auction in my area. The auctioneer advertised in the newspaper ad a nice vintage 'old' Victrola with a real nice 'old' horn. I tried to contact the auctioneer beforehand to ask some specifics so that I could find out if it was indeed a nice old phonograph. I could not reach him before the auction and was late getting to the sale the next day. By the time I got there, the phonograph was only moments from hitting the selling block. The nice vintage 'old' Victrola with a real nice 'old' horn turned out to be a nice old 'CRAPOLA'! As my six year old would say...YUCK! Before I could react, the auctioneer had already described it as the most beautiful Victrola that he had ever had the pleasure of auctioning off and that whoever was fortunate enough to win the bid would really have a prize! The crowd oooed and aawwed as if he were auctioning off the Hope Diamond. As soon as he started the bidding at $100.00, several hands flung toward the skies. I told the man next to me, that had his fingers brushing his mustache in mad anticipation of bidding, that this was a reproduction item and that is was a reproduction of the worst kind. I explained to him what a Crapola is and he said that I did not know what I was talking about as this was just like his great grandmother's wonderful Victrola. Yea, I know, a Victrola with a horn!! Anyway, I stood in total disbelief as the Crapola sold for over $1000.00!!! After the auction, I shared some lessons of learning (Phonograph 101) with the auctioneer. He did not want
[Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone
Tim is who chimed in to say that the listing said REPLICA three times, etc, and asked what the problem with it was. - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:19 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone I'm totally confused on who I was addressing. I thought it was Rich. Who's Tim? Sorry for any confusion. John
[Phono-L] No Raps on MAPS, But Seek Chaps for CAPS
Jerry, Thanks for your kind words about my new position in CAPS. There's no doubt that they wanted me simply for eye-candy. But it's worth noting that CAPS is not just for California collectors - any more than MAPS is solely for those living in Michigan. I've been a member of both organizations for many years, and agree that every serious collector should be a member of both. What puzzles me is the number of MAPS members who don't belong to CAPS as well. The CAPS quarterly journal, The Sound Box, is the best - I repeat - THE BEST publication on antique phonographs and related items. It's a large-format magazine (8 1/2 x 11) packed with photos and illustrations. Members just received their March issue last week, and - as in every issue - there are a number of substantive articles for the collector who wants to learn more about our hobby. The eight (yes, EIGHT) articles in the current issue cover these topics:1) A discussion of the Columbia Period Grafonolas, who made the cabinets , and illustrations of 18 different models! 2) An article and 4 photos of an unusual Exposicion gramophone by Larry Karp. Ever seen one of these? 3) Allen Koenigsberg wrote about a long-forgotten 1905 advertising campaign using a giant balloon tethered to a building in New York City to promote Victor Talking Machines (w/5 illustrations). A sudden windstorm brought near-tragedy and one man barely escaped with his life! 4) Thomas Rhodes (Mr.Orthophonic) writes about Joseph Maxfield's sound box - no, not the Orthophonic - the one BEFORE that!? 5) So we thought we knew about EVERY recording of Thomas Edison's voice? How about a 1917 Blue Amberol (yep - it predates Let Us Not Forget) containing Edison himself extolling the new Electrip Ediphone? Plus other related artifacts shown in four photos. 6) Everyone knows that cylinder records are vertically recorded, but if you read The Sound Box, you're also aware of two types of LATERALLY RECORDED cylinder records! 5 photos acc ompany this article. 7) Charles Marowitz writes an article in each issue on early recording stars, and I think he does an excellent job every time. This issue, he covered Annette Hanshaw (including 3 illustrations), and she seemed like such a babe in print that I was inspired to dig out a couple of her records to see what she sounded like. 8) When we think catalog sales, we think of Sears - don't we? Well, Montgomery-Ward put Sears to shame in the 1899-1902 period with the wonderful phonographs it sold, such as Edison Polyphones, Berliner Johnson Gramophones, the Thornward, and others. Nine illustrations from actual catalogs are included in this article. And that's all in just ONE issue of The Sound Box!? Rene Rondeau is the Editor, and does a magnificent job of creating a beautiful, eye-catching journal with full-color covers. There are 36 illustrations in this issue, which doesn't include the 5 pages of advertisements! CAPS maintains a website at www.ca-phono.org. I encourage everyone who's not a member to do themselves a favor and check it out. Sorry for the long essay, but this is really too good to miss! Best to all, George Paul California Antique Phonograph Society PO Box 169 Victorville, California 92393 (Dues are only $25 and include a wonderful quarterly newsletter)
[Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone
Apologies, Rich! John From: esrobe...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:15:26 -0500 Tim is who chimed in to say that the listing said REPLICA three times, etc, and asked what the problem with it was. - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:19 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone I'm totally confused on who I was addressing. I thought it was Rich. Who's Tim? Sorry for any confusion. John ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From msprin...@juno.com Wed Mar 12 16:15:03 2008 From: msprin...@juno.com (Merle Sprinzen) Date: Wed Mar 12 16:33:18 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone Message-ID: 20080312.193014.1604.8.msprin...@juno.com Also note that the seller is I-Sold-It. This is one of those businesses where people can drop off all their stuff and they post and sell it on eBay for them, with them keeping 50-percent or so of what the item fetches. They have less incentive/desire to make the most from each of their items because they make their money in volume. On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:15:09 -0400 John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com writes: They did AFTER they finally stopped the original auction where it was being presented as authentic. If you read my post, I say that, and they only re-listed it after I emailed them three times. You are looking at the re-listed item, Rich. John From: timsanti...@northstate.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:34:39 -0400 He clearly states it is made from several differant machines. He states the word REPLICA at least three times. problem is? Tim - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:35 AM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone I emailed these sellers about an hour or two and nicely told them what it was, since they had it listed as being the real thing. A day later I received an email saying they would look into it. 24 hours later it was still up with no changes to the listing. I couldn't help but notice Buy From Someone You Can Trust at the top of their page so I emailed back again simply quoting their logo with five question marks after it. Still no change to the listing. Yesterday afternoon, I emailed them and bluntly told them what it was again and asked why they hadn't changed the listing in light of their slogan. I finally received an email bank and was told I was impolite and simply showing off my knowledge, that they were not experts on everything, etc. I emailed them back and told them that in the age of Google, Wikipedia, and the internet in general, not accurately identifying what you have to sell and interpreting that accurately in an eBay listing is not excusable. I told them I thought it was far more impolite to mislead for profit, and if done intentionally, it is so impolite that it is fraud -- a felony. I gave the example of the time I sold a quantity of antique marbles on eBay and had to educate myself on the subject so I could describe them accurately. Am I now an expert on marbles? -- no. All I remember is that lutz swirls brought the most, and they came in different sizes, but I took the time and trouble to learn what I had in order to sell it. I asked them if they did not see the irony in Buy From Someone You Can Trust at the top of their page relative to their Frankenphone. I only apologized for not sugar-coating the truth about their item enough for them to be able to swallow it. Just a short time later, the auction was ended and now it has been re-listed with a new description. You just can't help some people without a battle! Like trying to save someone who's drowning. Impolite . . . me? I don't give a cr*p's a** -- I've got too many years in this hobby and care too much about it to have much tolerance for money-grubbing morons mucking it up. Thanks! I feel better now! John (the phono-curmudgeon) From: bruce78...@comcast.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:05:07 -0400 There is no doubt that this was work of a deranged mad man, to create this ultimate CRAPANOLA!! - Original Message - From: est...@localnet.com To: phonol...@yahoogroups.com; phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 11:05 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Franken-Crapophone This one is the worst I've seen yet- has two reproduction Columbia decals, and looks like
[Phono-L] No Raps on MAPS, But Seek Chaps for CAPS
Thanks, George for your comments about CAPS. I have been amazed at the quality of the CAPS Journal, The Sound Box. The articles by you, Tim, Rene and the others are outstanding. I agree, this is the oustanding journal in the hobby. The Journal alone is worth the membership price. The CAPS organization has made a gigantic leap in quality in all respects over the past few years.All of those seriously interested in the hobby should be a member of both MAPS and CAPS. Stan Stanford, President Oregon Territory Antique Phonograph Society Portland, OR - Original Message - From: gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: [Phono-L] No Raps on MAPS, But Seek Chaps for CAPS Jerry, Thanks for your kind words about my new position in CAPS. There's no doubt that they wanted me simply for eye-candy. But it's worth noting that CAPS is not just for California collectors - any more than MAPS is solely for those living in Michigan. I've been a member of both organizations for many years, and agree that every serious collector should be a member of both. What puzzles me is the number of MAPS members who don't belong to CAPS as well. The CAPS quarterly journal, The Sound Box, is the best - I repeat - THE BEST publication on antique phonographs and related items. It's a large-format magazine (8 1/2 x 11) packed with photos and illustrations. Members just received their March issue last week, and - as in every issue - there are a number of substantive articles for the collector who wants to learn more about our hobby. The eight (yes, EIGHT) articles in the current issue cover these topics:1) A discussion of the Columbia Period Grafonolas, who made the cabinets , and illustrations of 18 different models! 2) An article and 4 photos of an unusual Exposicion gramophone by Larry Karp. Ever seen one of these? 3) Allen Koenigsberg wrote about a long-forgotten 1905 advertising campaign using a giant balloon tethered to a building in New York City to promote Victor Talking Machines (w/5 illustrations). A sudden windstorm brought near-tragedy and one man barely escaped with his life! 4) Thomas Rhodes (Mr.Orthophonic) writes about Joseph Maxfield's sound box - no, not the Orthophonic - the one BEFORE that!? 5) So we thought we knew about EVERY recording of Thomas Edison's voice? How about a 1917 Blue Amberol (yep - it predates Let Us Not Forget) containing Edison himself extolling the new Electrip Ediphone? Plus other related artifacts shown in four photos. 6) Everyone knows that cylinder records are vertically recorded, but if you read The Sound Box, you're also aware of two types of LATERALLY RECORDED cylinder records! 5 photos acc ompany this article. 7) Charles Marowitz writes an article in each issue on early recording stars, and I think he does an excellent job every time. This issue, he covered Annette Hanshaw (including 3 illustrations), and she seemed like such a babe in print that I was inspired to dig out a couple of her records to see what she sounded like. 8) When we think catalog sales, we think of Sears - don't we? Well, Montgomery-Ward put Sears to shame in the 1899-1902 period with the wonderful phonographs it sold, such as Edison Polyphones, Berliner Johnson Gramophones, the Thornward, and others. Nine illustrations from actual catalogs are included in this article. And that's all in just ONE issue of The Sound Box!? Rene Rondeau is the Editor, and does a magnificent job of creating a beautiful, eye-catching journal with full-color covers. There are 36 illustrations in this issue, which doesn't include the 5 pages of advertisements! CAPS maintains a website at www.ca-phono.org. I encourage everyone who's not a member to do themselves a favor and check it out. Sorry for the long essay, but this is really too good to miss! Best to all, George Paul California Antique Phonograph Society PO Box 169 Victorville, California 92393 (Dues are only $25 and include a wonderful quarterly newsletter) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Phonograph Organizations
There are many fine organizations or chapters out there that would be of interest to phonograph collectors. MAPS and CAPS are two of the best, no argument there. OTAPS is another that I've heard good things about. There are great organizations in most every area of the US as well as organizations in other countries. I belong to three: MAPS, CAPS, and WIMAPS. The latter is the Wisconsin Chapter of MAPS. I would encourage people to search out a group that may be close to where they live. The social interaction with other collectors is beyond value. When a new collector interacts with a group it can be a bit intimidating to share items from your collection. It's a perception issue . . . that is common to any group. Some collectors have more advanced (or developed) interests and that can be intimidating to some newbies. It is not that the perception is intended . . . it simply is what it is. A smaller group that interacts can be of great benefit to the new comer. Even a new comer has something to offer. A question that may take a discussion to new levels, etc. Some of the regional chapters also have newsletters. I look forward to all the publications with great anticipation. Each has a focus that is unique. With that said . . . I need to point out that I value my phonograph friends highly. Rarely do I encounter someone that treats me dishonestly. When I do, I simply make the choice not to encounter them again. It's a hobby and I try to keep that perspective. I do understand business, though, and the hobby would not enjoy as much participation without the high caliber of many phonograph dealers. Most are members of this group.These people are the ones that show up at the various shows, write books, repair the unrepairable, stockpile those odd tid bits that we all need at one time or another, take the time to answer a question, and have answers to what part goes with what machine. All have a personal interest in increasing interest in the hobby. Many of us were encouraged by a dealor or two along the way. Now I've spent my two bits. It's an enjoyable hobby. New comers, don't be afraid to ask questions. Dont' be afraid to contact another collector. Don't be afraid to share. :) Wayne H My website is at http://www.phonomantiques.com/ From john9...@pacbell.net Wed Mar 12 20:06:16 2008 From: john9...@pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Wed Mar 12 20:06:36 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Phonograph Organizations In-Reply-To: 755296.8496...@web38804.mail.mud.yahoo.com Message-ID: 237677.69875...@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com I echo those sentiments on behalf of GSPS, the California chapter of MAPS, which I founded with a handful of collectors about ten years ago. Not bad for a club about whom one collector said you won't last six months. We also have a publication, a monthly newsletter, which we find delight in. I hesitate to say that any one publication is the best, when all our publications have value to the readers. Certainly the CAPS publication is the highest quality publication, with glossy cover, color pics, etc. I certainly enjoy getting it. But I enjoy the less technically advanced ones too, which also have good content. They all add to the enjoyment of the hobby. John Robles wayne holznagel ethanu...@yahoo.com wrote: There are many fine organizations or chapters out there that would be of interest to phonograph collectors. MAPS and CAPS are two of the best, no argument there. OTAPS is another that I've heard good things about. There are great organizations in most every area of the US as well as organizations in other countries. I belong to three: MAPS, CAPS, and WIMAPS. The latter is the Wisconsin Chapter of MAPS. I would encourage people to search out a group that may be close to where they live. The social interaction with other collectors is beyond value. When a new collector interacts with a group it can be a bit intimidating to share items from your collection. It's a perception issue . . . that is common to any group. Some collectors have more advanced (or developed) interests and that can be intimidating to some newbies. It is not that the perception is intended . . . it simply is what it is. A smaller group that interacts can be of great benefit to the new comer. Even a new comer has something to offer. A question that may take a discussion to new levels, etc. Some of the regional chapters also have newsletters. I look forward to all the publications with great anticipation. Each has a focus that is unique. With that said . . . I need to point out that I value my phonograph friends highly. Rarely do I encounter someone that treats me dishonestly. When I do, I simply make the choice not to encounter them again. It's a hobby and I try to keep that perspective. I do understand business, though, and the hobby would not enjoy as much participation without the high caliber of many phonograph
