Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 5:00 AM, Bastien wrote: > > > On 2011-09-20, at 12:05 AM, Tommy Pham wrote: > > > ASP? Not ASP.NET? Wow... I haven't any new sites deployed in ASP in > almost > > 10 years. IIRC, ASP is nothing more but bunch of spaghetti codes and no > > OOP. That's why attendance/registration is so low. Only main web > (server > > side) development languages are ASP.NET (C#), Java, and PHP (listed as > > alphabetical order - not based on demand/popularity). You'd probably say > > Perl and/or Python too. IMO, best way to convince the administration is > job > > search for "ASP under IT category" and show them the results vs search > for > > PHP ;) No need for long explanations and comparisons since the point of > > having students certified is that they could get a job quickly. > > > > Best wishes, > > Tommy > > Ha, tommy, > > My workplace app is classic asp and it sucks! I'll let you decide which > sucks ;-). > > It's over 1300 files, and spaghetti isn't the word. It's failure points are > so many that the pen test tools used created reports of 3000 pages. > > I have been pushing to move to php for years but the geniuses at the top > told me that php was a 'hobbiest language'. Note this same person told me > that we were moving to c# because it had the most examples on the msdn > network pages. ( yes, I know it's an account setting in the msdn network :-) > ) > > Bastien You can tell those 'geniuses' that IBM, a 40 year old 500 pound gorilla that started the PC industry, doesn't think so. Google 'IBM PHP' shows 99,500,000 results. The first link http://www.ibm.com/systems/i/software/php/index.html shows how their systems run PHP. *"Open to Innovation* Are you looking to develop or deploy Web applications? PHP, the leading scripting language for Web applications, provides an open and easy to use alternative and gives you access to thousands of open source applications and scripts. Thousands of IBM i customers around the world have downloaded Zend’s PHP products for i for a wide variety of web application development and deployment initiatives." ".. i ..." refers to their i series servers. Also, ask them what does IBM stand for and why would a company with that name supports PHP strongly. And if that doesn't open their mind up, ask them of what they think about Oracle. Then Google "Oracle PHP", showing 199,000,000 results, and let them think if it's still a "hobbyist language". Oracle, another almost 40 year old 500 pound gorilla, started the commercial RDBMS industry. The examples can go on and on... ;) Regards, Tommy
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
On 9/19/2011 5:08 PM, Tedd Sperling wrote: As such, I need information regarding how wide-spread PHP is (i.e., number of installations), who's using it (i.e., companies, organizations), and how it compares with other Web Languages (i.e., ASP, Ruby, etc.). Since it's a school, you might also want to point out Moodle http://moodle.org/ is another example of PHP based, open source software that is used by many educational institutions throughout Canada and Australia (I'd assume the rest of the world as well). By my own completely unscientific research and experience - it's very strange to come upon a URL that ends with .aspx or .jsp. Considering that Linux (and its variants) powers the overwhelming majority of the Internet's web servers - it seems fair to conclude that PHP would be the most accessible web language there is. Best of luck breaking through the education bubble.
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
On 2011-09-20, at 12:05 AM, Tommy Pham wrote: > ASP? Not ASP.NET? Wow... I haven't any new sites deployed in ASP in almost > 10 years. IIRC, ASP is nothing more but bunch of spaghetti codes and no > OOP. That's why attendance/registration is so low. Only main web (server > side) development languages are ASP.NET (C#), Java, and PHP (listed as > alphabetical order - not based on demand/popularity). You'd probably say > Perl and/or Python too. IMO, best way to convince the administration is job > search for "ASP under IT category" and show them the results vs search for > PHP ;) No need for long explanations and comparisons since the point of > having students certified is that they could get a job quickly. > > Best wishes, > Tommy Ha, tommy, My workplace app is classic asp and it sucks! I'll let you decide which sucks ;-). It's over 1300 files, and spaghetti isn't the word. It's failure points are so many that the pen test tools used created reports of 3000 pages. I have been pushing to move to php for years but the geniuses at the top told me that php was a 'hobbiest language'. Note this same person told me that we were moving to c# because it had the most examples on the msdn network pages. ( yes, I know it's an account setting in the msdn network :-) ) Bastien -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
On 19 September 2011 22:08, Tedd Sperling wrote: > Hi gang: > > I need information to convince administrators in "management" that PHP is a > viable subject that should be taught in college with credits going toward a > Degree or Certification. > > You see, I am pushing for a Web Development Certification program that would > include PHP/MySQL as well as several other Web Languages (i.e., html, css, > javascript, ajax). > > Currently the college teaches ASP in a regular course toward a IT > Certification, but class attendance has dropped considerably -- no one wants > to take the course. > > However, My PHP class has been maxed out. But my class is a "special topic" > class and not part of the regular coursework that would go towards a Degree > or Certification -- and that's where I would like this to go. > > As such, I need information regarding how wide-spread PHP is (i.e., number of > installations), who's using it (i.e., companies, organizations), and how it > compares with other Web Languages (i.e., ASP, Ruby, etc.). > > So, what say you? References will work. > > Thanks, > > tedd Considering this is academia, how about WikiPedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki 75 languages and over 3.5 million pages : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics So, this is just 1 site. Of course, you can easily have a Flash frontend with a PHP backend. The whole nature of PHP is that it can fit anywhere. Web, Console, GUI (with appropriate bindings). Multii-platform, architecture, OS, etc. - probably preaching to the converted here. I would also recommend the inclusion of a nosql module and MAYBE some Windows specific elements (I use IIS/MSSQL/PHP no problem. MS SQL driver for PHP is PDO and works very nicely). -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend : PHPDoc @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY : bit.ly/lFnVea -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
ASP? Not ASP.NET? Wow... I haven't any new sites deployed in ASP in almost 10 years. IIRC, ASP is nothing more but bunch of spaghetti codes and no OOP. That's why attendance/registration is so low. Only main web (server side) development languages are ASP.NET (C#), Java, and PHP (listed as alphabetical order - not based on demand/popularity). You'd probably say Perl and/or Python too. IMO, best way to convince the administration is job search for "ASP under IT category" and show them the results vs search for PHP ;) No need for long explanations and comparisons since the point of having students certified is that they could get a job quickly. Best wishes, Tommy
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 20:17, David Harkness wrote: > > LOL! That I totally forgot it used to stand for Perl pretty much proves my > point. That or focusing on any language for a few years will tend to make > one fairly myopic. :) I waited for someone to chime in about Python being included in that list as well (in many circles, the 'P' in LAMP is ambiguous for the three: Perl, Python, and PHP). -- Network Infrastructure Manager http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Daniel Brown wrote: > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 18:10, David Harkness > wrote: > > Gently remind them that the P in LAMP stands for PHP. > > It has become a presumption in that regard, yes, but the 'P' in > LAMP was actually for Perl. > LOL! That I totally forgot it used to stand for Perl pretty much proves my point. That or focusing on any language for a few years will tend to make one fairly myopic. :) Peace, David
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
Sent from my iPhone On Sep 19, 2011, at 5:08 PM, Tedd Sperling wrote: > Hi gang: > > I need information to convince administrators in "management" that PHP is a > viable subject that should be taught in college with credits going toward a > Degree or Certification. Would another college already doing that help or hurt? Full sail university does just that both online and in person if you're local. Almost took the program but ran out of money to quickly... They aren't cheap but they are good! > > You see, I am pushing for a Web Development Certification program that would > include PHP/MySQL as well as several other Web Languages (i.e., html, css, > javascript, ajax). > > Currently the college teaches ASP in a regular course toward a IT > Certification, but class attendance has dropped considerably -- no one wants > to take the course. > > However, My PHP class has been maxed out. But my class is a "special topic" > class and not part of the regular coursework that would go towards a Degree > or Certification -- and that's where I would like this to go. > > As such, I need information regarding how wide-spread PHP is (i.e., number of > installations), who's using it (i.e., companies, organizations), and how it > compares with other Web Languages (i.e., ASP, Ruby, etc.). > > So, what say you? References will work. > > Thanks, > > tedd > > _ > t...@sperling.com > http://sperling.com > > > > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
As far as I know it is called LAMPP and not LAMP. So you have PHP and also Perl. But never the less PHP is one of the most widespread web languages now-a-days. 2011/9/20 Daniel Brown > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 18:10, David Harkness > wrote: > > Gently remind them that the P in LAMP stands for PHP. There's a big > reason > > most every web developer can tell you what each letter in LAMP stands > for: > > heavy market penetration. > > It has become a presumption in that regard, yes, but the 'P' in > LAMP was actually for Perl. > > -- > > Network Infrastructure Manager > http://www.php.net/ > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 18:10, David Harkness wrote: > Gently remind them that the P in LAMP stands for PHP. There's a big reason > most every web developer can tell you what each letter in LAMP stands for: > heavy market penetration. It has become a presumption in that regard, yes, but the 'P' in LAMP was actually for Perl. -- Network Infrastructure Manager http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
Gently remind them that the P in LAMP stands for PHP. There's a big reason most every web developer can tell you what each letter in LAMP stands for: heavy market penetration. Peace, David
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 17:08, Tedd Sperling wrote: > > As such, I need information regarding how wide-spread PHP is (i.e., number of > installations), who's using it (i.e., companies, organizations), and how it > compares with other Web Languages (i.e., ASP, Ruby, etc.). There's no really good metric in recent history (since about Netcraft's 2007 survey, I guess) that shows PHP's installation figures --- not even a general representation. Back in early 2009 (as in, almost three years ago), I used Google's 'filetype' filter to get an approximation and posted the results on this list and on one of my sites[1]. I'm working on finishing a new version of my own software which will sample millions of domains and query them to see if they report having PHP installed as well, but I don't expect those results to be available for some time to come. I have, however, been thinking of making it a real-time counter, which would then show the stats as things run. As for who's using it, that's a question with an unending answer. Facebook was built in PHP, which is perhaps the most glaring argument by itself, and one to which most folks can instantly relate, as they're more likely to be a user than not, according to Facebook's market saturation statistics. Other sites and companies include Yahoo!, Google, NBC, Verizon, and - as you know - LCC-MAHE. On top of that, what most folks may not realize, is that the White House website (http://www.whitehouse.gov/) uses Drupal, which is also written in PHP. In fact, a fun fact for now is that regular freelance developers aren't the only ones who drop the ball sometimes and let error messages display on the web. So does the White House[2]. Other US government body websites that have used and/or continue to use PHP include the US Congress, the Library of Congress, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), the Department of Justice (DOJ), most state government websites, and all five branches of the armed services. ^1: http://links.parasane.net/nc8d ^2: http://links.parasane.net/zdzu -- Dedicated Servers, Cloud and Cloud Hybrid Solutions, VPS, Hosting (866-) 725-4321 http://www.parasane.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Tedd Sperling wrote: > Hi gang: > > I need information to convince administrators in "management" that PHP is a > viable subject that should be taught in college with credits going toward a > Degree or Certification. > > You see, I am pushing for a Web Development Certification program that would > include PHP/MySQL as well as several other Web Languages (i.e., html, css, > javascript, ajax). > > Currently the college teaches ASP in a regular course toward a IT > Certification, but class attendance has dropped considerably -- no one wants > to take the course. > > However, My PHP class has been maxed out. But my class is a "special topic" > class and not part of the regular coursework that would go towards a Degree > or Certification -- and that's where I would like this to go. > > As such, I need information regarding how wide-spread PHP is (i.e., number of > installations), who's using it (i.e., companies, organizations), and how it > compares with other Web Languages (i.e., ASP, Ruby, etc.). > > So, what say you? References will work. > > Thanks, > > tedd > > _ > t...@sperling.com > http://sperling.com > > > > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > Ask them if they've heard of facebook oracle uses php in the web based admin tool ibm has a close association with zend and php microsoft is supporting php natively in win2008 server Usage stats http://php.net/usage.php -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] PHP installations, usage, and popularity
Hi gang: I need information to convince administrators in "management" that PHP is a viable subject that should be taught in college with credits going toward a Degree or Certification. You see, I am pushing for a Web Development Certification program that would include PHP/MySQL as well as several other Web Languages (i.e., html, css, javascript, ajax). Currently the college teaches ASP in a regular course toward a IT Certification, but class attendance has dropped considerably -- no one wants to take the course. However, My PHP class has been maxed out. But my class is a "special topic" class and not part of the regular coursework that would go towards a Degree or Certification -- and that's where I would like this to go. As such, I need information regarding how wide-spread PHP is (i.e., number of installations), who's using it (i.e., companies, organizations), and how it compares with other Web Languages (i.e., ASP, Ruby, etc.). So, what say you? References will work. Thanks, tedd _ t...@sperling.com http://sperling.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
