RE: [PHP] Re: Automatic user login under NT

2002-06-12 Thread Steve Edberg

At 01:39 PM 6/12/02 , Barajas, Arturo wrote:
> > From: Lazor, Ed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
>Hi, Ed.
>
> > and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one he's helped.  That
> > garners even more respect - IMHO.
>
>I'm new on the list, so I really don't know Rasmus, or what he does. As 
>far as I've read messages, he seems to be really appreciated and 
>respected, one way or another.


You can check out this bit from the PHP archives, written by Rasmus:

 http://www.php.net/manual/phpfi2.php#history

and take a look through the credits

 http://www.php.net/credits.php

and count how many times his name appears. In short, PHP sprang from his 
brain. Now, it springs from many brains.

 -steve


++
| Steve Edberg  [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
| Database/Programming/SysAdmin(530)754-9127 |
| University of California, Davis http://pgfsun.ucdavis.edu/ |
+-- Gort, Klaatu barada nikto! --+



RE: [PHP] Re: Automatic user login under NT

2002-06-12 Thread Barajas, Arturo

> From: Lazor, Ed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Hi, Ed.

> and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one he's helped.  That
> garners even more respect - IMHO.

I'm new on the list, so I really don't know Rasmus, or what he does. As far as I've 
read messages, he seems to be really appreciated and respected, one way or another.

> I think this last point shows that this a battle between
> ASP and PHP - not necessarily an OS / platform war.  More
> books, support, programming tools (libraries, editors,
> etc.) and jobs based around the PHP programming language
> would help tremendously.

Have to agree with that. Though I've seen lots of books and all that stuff spring from 
-almost- nowhere.

> >To write PHP extensions on Windows I think Visual C++ is more 
> >appropriate. 
> Does gcc (or some other free C programming language) for 
> Windows exist?

Not exactly. You can install cygwin under NT/2K and have a shell and a host of other 
utilities (even bash!) that make your winbox almost cross-platform (at least for 
development, I think).
--
Un gran saludo/Big regards...
   Arturo Barajas
   Sistemas PPG SJR
   +52 (427) 271-9100, ext. 448

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RE: [PHP] Re: Automatic user login under NT

2002-06-12 Thread Lazor, Ed


>Sure, never mind about Rasmus descrimination towards Windows users. 
>Rasmus always has been bitter with users asking for support, especially 
>if they want to run PHP under Windows. 

Although it seems counter-productive, I can certainly respect Rasmus having
his own opinion.  He has provided quick and helpful responses to many of my
questions, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one he's helped.  That
garners even more respect - IMHO.

>PHP developers should be thankful of its support under Windows 
>because that allowed to keep jobs still working on PHP, ie eventually 
>not having to move to other languages.

I think this last point shows that this a battle between ASP and PHP - not
necessarily an OS / platform war.  More books, support, programming tools
(libraries, editors, etc.) and jobs based around the PHP programming
language would help tremendously.


>To write PHP extensions on Windows I think Visual C++ is more 
>appropriate. 

Does gcc (or some other free C programming language) for Windows exist?

-Ed
 

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Re: [PHP] Re: Automatic user login under NT

2002-06-12 Thread Manuel Lemos

Hello,

On 06/12/2002 02:48 PM, Arturo Barajas wrote:
 >>I don't agree and even think that it is a stupid thing to say because
 >>open source is not about excluding Windows users even if
 >>there are much less open source developers with Windows knowledge
 >>there is no point in making Windows users feel bad about it.
 >
 >
 > Sometimes you have to deal with it. At home I use Linux, but at the 
office it's Windows, and there's nothing we can do to change it. I 
thought open source wasn't about a given OS, but rather a philosophy 
(?). I can develop for Windows (or BeOS or MacOS or whatever) and what I 
do can be still open source, isn't it?
 >
 > OTOH, how can I (or anyone for that matter) change the mentality of a 
"corporate user" about open source tools with that other "mentality"? 
"Being second class?" My God.
 >
 > I don't want a flamewar, anyway, but I think it's not the most clever 
way to establish the open source movement, IMHO.

Sure, never mind about Rasmus descrimination towards Windows users. 
Rasmus always has been bitter with users asking for support, especially 
if they want to run PHP under Windows. Rasmus opinion is just Rasmus 
opinion and by all means does not represent what the PHP and the Open 
Source community in general thinks.

PHP should stay away from the OS wars especially because a great part of 
PHP is due to its acceptance in the Windows world.

This may come to you as a surprise, but according to partial results of 
a poll that I am carrying, more than 52% of the PHP developers use 
Windows in production environments. So it is absolutely stupid that much 
users are "second class citizens".

The truth is that after the blowup of the Internet bubble, many PHP 
developers had to turn to corporations that are still well dominated by 
Windows. PHP developers should be thankful of its support under Windows 
because that allowed to keep jobs still working on PHP, ie eventually 
not having to move to other languages.

Anyway, what Rasmus meant is that there are much less open source 
Windows developers which is a fact. That doesn't mean that being less 
you won't get any support from them. Rasmus just seems to love to make 
Windows users suffer for using such platform, even though many of them 
had to put up with it because they had no choice. Just ignore him.


 >>Anyway, personally I don't use Windows nor have a project
 >>that motivate me to add support to NTLM authentication in
 >>PHP, but if you or anybody has interest in doing it and
 >>know enough C, I can tell you how to write a PHP extension
 >>to support that. Just let me know if you are interested.
 >
 >
 > Of course I am :^). What compiler do I need? gcc on cygwin or 
something? I'll have to dust my old C notebooks :^).

To write PHP extensions on Windows I think Visual C++ is more 
appropriate. You may find documentation to write extensions here:

http://www.php.net/manual/en/zend.php

Keep in mind that NTLM authentication can be added in such way that you 
can authenticate on Windows domain controller despite your Web server 
may be running on Linux or some other Unix platform.

As for the authentication itself, I just paste here what you need to 
know so you can start working on this.

Basically you need to know that there are two parts to be addressed: 
HTTP NTLM autentication dialog and NTLM logon in Windows domain 
controller to verify if the credentials are correct.

The second part is easier because there is already C code to implement 
it that you can borrow from Apache NTLM authetication module that uses 
the client libraries of the Samba project.

http://modntlm.sourceforge.net/

This module is meant to run under Unix, but since it is just client 
code, I think it could be made to run under Windows.

As for the HTTP NTLM authetication dialog itself that this Apache module 
also does, it is more complicated because unlike Basic authetication it 
is multi-step. In this page you may find some explanation about the 
protocolo of challenge and response messages that are exchanged between 
the client and the server:

http://www.innovation.ch/java/ntlm.html

Other than this there is the issue of authentication credentials 
caching. Since you need 3 accesses to the server to go, caching 
authetication credentials would avoid further authentication accesses to 
the domain controller. This is trickier, so it could be left for an 
optimization phase.



-- 

Regards,
Manuel Lemos


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RE: [PHP] Re: Automatic user login under NT

2002-06-12 Thread Barajas, Arturo

> From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Hi, Manuel.

> I don't agree and even think that it is a stupid thing to say because 
> open source is not about excluding Windows users even if 
> there are much less open source developers with Windows knowledge
> there is no point in making Windows users feel bad about it.

Sometimes you have to deal with it. At home I use Linux, but at the office it's 
Windows, and there's nothing we can do to change it. I thought open source wasn't 
about a given OS, but rather a philosophy (?). I can develop for Windows (or BeOS or 
MacOS or whatever) and what I do can be still open source, isn't it?

OTOH, how can I (or anyone for that matter) change the mentality of a "corporate user" 
about open source tools with that other "mentality"? "Being second class?" My God.

I don't want a flamewar, anyway, but I think it's not the most clever way to establish 
the open source movement, IMHO.

> Anyway, personally I don't use Windows nor have a project 
> that motivate me to add support to NTLM authentication in
> PHP, but if you or anybody has interest in doing it and
> know enough C, I can tell you how to write a PHP extension
> to support that. Just let me know if you are interested.

Of course I am :^). What compiler do I need? gcc on cygwin or something? I'll have to 
dust my old C notebooks :^).

> -- 
> Regards,
> Manuel Lemos
--
Un gran saludo/Big regards...
   Arturo Barajas
   Sistemas PPG SJR
   +52 (427) 271-9100, ext. 448

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[PHP] Re: Automatic user login under NT

2002-06-12 Thread Manuel Lemos

Hello,

On 06/12/2002 01:43 PM, Arturo Barajas wrote:
> Greetings, everyone.
> 
> I'm new on the list (not so on PHP).
> 
> I'm stuck with a little problem, I'm trying to implement some PHP pages at work, 
>where ASP is used. The platform is NT 4.0 SP6, with PHP 4.2.1.
> 
> My problem is that with ASP I can have something like 
>Request.ServerVariables("LOGON_USER"). I've tried using $_SERVER["LOGON_USER"] but to 
>no avail. Curiously, Request.ServerVariables("REMOTE_ADDR") and 
>$_SERVER["REMOTE_ADDR"] work like a charm.
> 
> How can I obtain the login the user entered when logged to his/her machine?

PHP does not support NTLM authentication. ASP does it, Java does it, 
Perl does it, Python does it, but PHP don't . I don't know if and when 
it ever will because according to Rasmus Lerdorf, Windows PHP users "are 
second-class citizen when it comes to support from the open source 
community".

http://news.php.net/article.php?group=php.qa&article=5414

I don't agree and even think that it is a stupid thing to say because 
open source is not about excluding Windows users even if there are much 
less open source developers with Windows knowledge there is no point in 
making Windows users feel bad about it.

Anyway, personally I don't use Windows nor have a project that motivate 
me to add support to NTLM authentication in PHP, but if you or anybody 
has interest in doing it and know enough C, I can tell you how to write 
a PHP extension to support that. Just let me know if you are interested.

-- 

Regards,
Manuel Lemos


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