Re: [PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
On Tue, 2006-07-04 at 18:54 -0300, Manuel Lemos wrote: > The truth is that good PHP developers are often not good Web (page) > designers, and good Web designers are not good developers. Yes, I agree with this completely! I am a relatively decent developer, but ask me to design an interface and you make a blabbering idiot of me... In our framework, Chisimba (Framework in a bunch of African languages), we completely separate the logic components from the templates and view (MVC). The nice thing about working in this way is that all of our code is modular as well as OO, so that if I write an object it can be re-used, as well as form only a small part of a module. This means that it is possible to get multiple developers and designers all working simultaneously on a single module to get it done really quickly. Also, to take your original topic a little further, we not only abstract database calls, but also everything else. For example, in an e-learning context we call our Content system a course, in a CMS implementation a Content Area, and in a groupware implementation a Work Area. This in multiple languages makes for a highly configurable set up! Keep all of that in mind when designing your app, as it caters for the widest possible audience, as well as the project contributing significantly to other projects. (Our project has contributed around 15 or so classes to phpclasses.org, bugfixes and feature requests to a couple of pear projects, amongst others). --Paul All Email originating from UWC is covered by disclaimer http://www.uwc.ac.za/portal/uwc2006/content/mail_disclaimer/index.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
Hello, on 07/03/2006 05:22 PM Jay Paulson said the following: I'd like to get some feedback on what the list thinks is a good template engine other than smarty. I'd also like to do some quick prototyping using a PHP framework does anyone have any recommendations for one that is easy to pick up and run with? Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for a good PHP database abstraction library? >>> You may want to take a look at this post for a few recommendations: >>> >>> http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/52-Recommended-PHP-frameworks.html >> That is a nice sales pitch Manuel but takes bit of digesting. >> >> Jay - This is a 'how long is a piece of string' type question. So there >> are as many answers as there are developers here ;) >> >> I've only ever used Smarty - and not seen anything yet to replace it. >> >> PDO is being pushed as a DB Abstraction library, but it only 'abstracts' >> the calls to PHP, it does nothing to abstract the SQL if you want a >> truly generic solution, if you need one, but if you don't then why >> bother with abstraction ;) > > Thinking about this paragraph above makes me wonder if with that way of > looking at it would one need a template engine? For example, why not just > separate the business logic and the HTML as much as possible and then only > imbed PHP in HTML to display the variables ()?? Then at the end > of your PHP code that does all the logic just have include() calls to the > .php files you want to parse and pass all the variables you got with your > business logic above the include calls? Hm. Just a thought. You think like that because you work alone or with other PHP developers. The truth is that good PHP developers are often not good Web (page) designers, and good Web designers are not good developers. Therefore it makes sense to split the Web page design work from PHP programming work. Smarty templates are easier to learn by Web designers than PHP. They do not need to know PHP. Furthermore, it is not a good idea to leave Web designers that does not know PHP very well to write PHP code as they may write insecure code and you will have to double the work by auditing the PHP based templates. -- Regards, Manuel Lemos Metastorage - Data object relational mapping layer generator http://www.metastorage.net/ PHP Classes - Free ready to use OOP components written in PHP http://www.phpclasses.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
Hello, on 07/03/2006 03:38 AM Lester Caine said the following: >>> I'd like to get some feedback on what the list thinks is a good template >>> engine other than smarty. >>> >>> I'd also like to do some quick prototyping using a PHP framework does >>> anyone >>> have any recommendations for one that is easy to pick up and run with? >>> >>> Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for a good PHP database >>> abstraction library? >> >> You may want to take a look at this post for a few recommendations: >> >> http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/52-Recommended-PHP-frameworks.html > > That is a nice sales pitch Manuel but takes bit of digesting. If you were looking for specific recommendations, they are at the end of the post. Anyway, the post was more to say that there is no consense regarding what is the recommended framework for PHP. Most people end up picking components for different purposes from different sources because different developers have developed the best packages for their own purposes. -- Regards, Manuel Lemos Metastorage - Data object relational mapping layer generator http://www.metastorage.net/ PHP Classes - Free ready to use OOP components written in PHP http://www.phpclasses.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
Jay Paulson wrote: Thinking about this paragraph above makes me wonder if with that way of looking at it would one need a template engine? For example, why not just separate the business logic and the HTML as much as possible and then only imbed PHP in HTML to display the variables ()?? Then at the end of your PHP code that does all the logic just have include() calls to the .php files you want to parse and pass all the variables you got with your business logic above the include calls? Hm. Just a thought. When I look at the complexity of the installer and the user management system in bitweaver, then the answer is probably yes. But then I look at the code that provides the mapserver client and I'm glad that the rest of the 'variables' are taken care of :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Treasurer - Firebird Foundation Inc. - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
>>> I'd like to get some feedback on what the list thinks is a good template >>> engine other than smarty. >>> >>> I'd also like to do some quick prototyping using a PHP framework does anyone >>> have any recommendations for one that is easy to pick up and run with? >>> >>> Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for a good PHP database >>> abstraction library? >> >> You may want to take a look at this post for a few recommendations: >> >> http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/52-Recommended-PHP-frameworks.html > > That is a nice sales pitch Manuel but takes bit of digesting. > > Jay - This is a 'how long is a piece of string' type question. So there > are as many answers as there are developers here ;) > > I've only ever used Smarty - and not seen anything yet to replace it. > > PDO is being pushed as a DB Abstraction library, but it only 'abstracts' > the calls to PHP, it does nothing to abstract the SQL if you want a > truly generic solution, if you need one, but if you don't then why > bother with abstraction ;) Thinking about this paragraph above makes me wonder if with that way of looking at it would one need a template engine? For example, why not just separate the business logic and the HTML as much as possible and then only imbed PHP in HTML to display the variables ()?? Then at the end of your PHP code that does all the logic just have include() calls to the .php files you want to parse and pass all the variables you got with your business logic above the include calls? Hm. Just a thought. > I've been running with bitweaver now for some time, and things are > starting to come together. It uses Smarty and ADOdb and can install > itself on a range of database engines without any 'manual intervention'. > So I am happy that it is a generic framework that is easy to run with. > > www.bitweaver.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
Robert Cummings wrote: On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 08:37, Jens Kleikamp wrote: Jay Paulson wrote: I'd like to get some feedback on what the list thinks is a good template engine other than smarty. I like ezTemplate. (E_STRICT) YOU DO?? I hope it's changed then from the one used on a site I'm now maintaining. I find it to be a nightmare. You can't just move around blocks of content because the template's block structure requires you maintain the nesting association... thus you need to go back to the code every time you move a block of content to synch up the block declarations. Cheers, Rob. Hi Rob, Sorry, typo, I meant ezcTemplate. Maybe ezTemplate is a package within ezPublish 3.x cms, which I don´t know. ( not 100% sure ) The lately released ezcTemplate does the job very well, I didn´t experienced the issue you described. Cheers, Jens -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 08:37, Jens Kleikamp wrote: > Jay Paulson wrote: > > I'd like to get some feedback on what the list thinks is a good template > > engine other than smarty. > > > > I like ezTemplate. (E_STRICT) YOU DO?? I hope it's changed then from the one used on a site I'm now maintaining. I find it to be a nightmare. You can't just move around blocks of content because the template's block structure requires you maintain the nesting association... thus you need to go back to the code every time you move a block of content to synch up the block declarations. Cheers, Rob. -- .. | InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com | :: | An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting | | a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services | | such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn | | also provides an extremely flexible architecture for | | creating re-usable components quickly and easily. | `' -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
Jay Paulson wrote: I'd like to get some feedback on what the list thinks is a good template engine other than smarty. I like ezTemplate. (E_STRICT) I'd also like to do some quick prototyping using a PHP framework does anyone have any recommendations for one that is easy to pick up and run with? Seems to be a really difficult question imho :) Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for a good PHP database abstraction library? Depends on your environment, MDB2 is fine if you have to run php4, otherwise, I like Zend_Db (http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/zend.db.html) and also ezDatabase (http://ez.no/doc/components/view/latest/(file)/classtrees_Database.html) is worth a look. just my 0,2 €cents -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
Kevin Waterson wrote: This one time, at band camp, Lester Caine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: PDO is being pushed as a DB Abstraction library, but it only 'abstracts' the calls to PHP, it does nothing to abstract the SQL if you want a truly generic solution, if you need one, but if you don't then why bother with abstraction ;) Whoa dragon PDO is not being pushed as a DB Abstraction library. From the manual.. Both other replies to this thread quoted PDO without mentioning that it not a DB Abstraction library - because the misconception is that PDO is. So I was just correcting those messages. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Treasurer - Firebird Foundation Inc. - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
This one time, at band camp, Lester Caine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > PDO is being pushed as a DB Abstraction library, but it only 'abstracts' > the calls to PHP, it does nothing to abstract the SQL if you want a > truly generic solution, if you need one, but if you don't then why > bother with abstraction ;) Whoa dragon PDO is not being pushed as a DB Abstraction library. From the manual.. "PDO provides a data-access abstraction layer, which means that, regardless of which database you're using, you use the same functions to issue queries and fetch data. PDO does not provide a database abstraction; it doesn't rewrite SQL or emulate missing features. You should use a full-blown abstraction layer if you need that facility." As you see, PDO provides a standard interface to databases, you might use PDO to create an abstraction layer, but is not an abstraction layer in itself. Kind regards Kevin -- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
Manuel Lemos wrote: on 06/30/2006 11:38 AM Jay Paulson said the following: I'd like to get some feedback on what the list thinks is a good template engine other than smarty. I'd also like to do some quick prototyping using a PHP framework does anyone have any recommendations for one that is easy to pick up and run with? Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for a good PHP database abstraction library? You may want to take a look at this post for a few recommendations: http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/52-Recommended-PHP-frameworks.html That is a nice sales pitch Manuel but takes bit of digesting. Jay - This is a 'how long is a piece of string' type question. So there are as many answers as there are developers here ;) I've only ever used Smarty - and not seen anything yet to replace it. PDO is being pushed as a DB Abstraction library, but it only 'abstracts' the calls to PHP, it does nothing to abstract the SQL if you want a truly generic solution, if you need one, but if you don't then why bother with abstraction ;) I've been running with bitweaver now for some time, and things are starting to come together. It uses Smarty and ADOdb and can install itself on a range of database engines without any 'manual intervention'. So I am happy that it is a generic framework that is easy to run with. www.bitweaver.org -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Treasurer - Firebird Foundation Inc. - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Templates, PHP Frameworks, and DB Abstraction?
Hello, on 06/30/2006 11:38 AM Jay Paulson said the following: > I'd like to get some feedback on what the list thinks is a good template > engine other than smarty. > > I'd also like to do some quick prototyping using a PHP framework does anyone > have any recommendations for one that is easy to pick up and run with? > > Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for a good PHP database > abstraction library? You may want to take a look at this post for a few recommendations: http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/52-Recommended-PHP-frameworks.html -- Regards, Manuel Lemos Metastorage - Data object relational mapping layer generator http://www.metastorage.net/ PHP Classes - Free ready to use OOP components written in PHP http://www.phpclasses.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Templates Are Driving me Nuts
The template system I use is extremely simple.
Template.php:
Items = array();
$this->_document = $document;
}
function Render()
{
echo $this->ToString();
}
function ToString()
{
$template = $this->Items;
ob_start();
require($this->_document);
return ob_get_clean();
}
}
?>
and to use it?
templates/index.html:
Hello , it is currently
index.php:
Items['name'] = 'User';
$template->Items['time'] = date('d M Y', time());
$template->Render();
?>
why use it?
Because you keep your html and your php code separate. That is the
goal when using any templating system.
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Templates Are Driving me Nuts
Hello, Here is a shema to explain Template Engines: http://www.tinybutstrong.com/index.php?page=template Some developers complain about Template Engines because they are too complex or because they are a kind of new language over PHP. The one you will found on the URL above is expected to be different. --- Skrol 29 www.skrol29.com www.tinybutstrong.com --- "Ee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message de news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Dears, > > Please help. This template thing is driving my nuts. I though maybe when > I read more articles things will clear up; however, things got even > worse. Every article writer has a different idea. Can anyone explain to > me what are Templates for? What are the advantages of using them? If I > use a third party template, will my site have a different look or is it > only a parser that will take my designed template and data and combine > them. I really don't know. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Templates/Separate content from presentation
"Pedro Pais" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I've coded in PHP for a while, but I had to leave it for some time. Now > I'm back, and I'd like to know what's currently being used to separate > content from presentation, besides Smarty (that seems to be Google's top > choice)? Try also TemplateTamer, it comes with dev environment for tempalte based development. rush -- http://www.templatetamer.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Templates/Separate content from presentation
Hi Pedro, try http://www.phpsavant.com Regards, Greg Pedro Pais wrote: Hi! I've coded in PHP for a while, but I had to leave it for some time. Now I'm back, and I'd like to know what's currently being used to separate content from presentation, besides Smarty (that seems to be Google's top choice)? Thanx -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Templates...
Have u looked at smarty.php.net ?? It sounds like your reinventing the wheel Pete Donatas wrote: Does anyone know any other way used in template engines for loops but creating array first and passing it to template class? This is rather annoying and it makes work slower and code harder to read. I've made my own template class with variable and loop support. Loop handling is way different from what I've seen in other template engines. I've made few screenshots of code examples (I was too lazy to add font colors). Please let me know if you've seen this idea before, and what you think of it. The class still needs some tweaking but I'll post it here some other day if anyone is interested. Cheers, Donny -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] RE: Templates... (dumb me)
http://www.mif.vu.lt/~doma2988/tpl/ From: Donatas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 7:38 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Does anyone know any other way used in template engines for loops but creating array first and passing it to template class? This is rather annoying and it makes work slower and code harder to read. I've made my own template class with variable and loop support. Loop handling is way different from what I've seen in other template engines. I've made few screenshots of code examples (I was too lazy to add font colors). Please let me know if you've seen this idea before, and what you think of it. The class still needs some tweaking but I'll post it here some other day if anyone is interested. Cheers, Donny -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Templates
"Darren Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 000e01c2d3b3$a88217e0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:000e01c2d3b3$a88217e0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > I'm looking around for some options on using templates with PHP. I've > used several Perl solutions in the past, but never tried it in PHP. > Digging on the web yields several options so I'd love some thoughts or > comments. The real driver is that the basic site design could change > over time and I'd like to have the basic HTML in the templates, and the > real logic in the PHP code. Hi, take a look at the TemplateTamer (link is in the sig). Aside from beeing just template engine, it commes with complete environment that eases many chores while programming with templates. It is very easy to see the structure of your templates, and to use them. Also TT offers very strong separation of templates and logic, and does not suffer from code creeping back into the templates. rush -- http://www.templatetamer.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: Templates: how to get that HTML outta my templates!
> * and then Mikusch, Rita blurted > > Thank you for the reply. I'm trying to "roll my own" template system, but > > don't really know how to go about some of the details. My best bet would > > probably be to install phplib and dissect itsee how the experts did it! > > At the very least it should be a great learning experience :) > Rita, Rita, Rita...:=) > "roll your own" Why? What possible reason could there be? (other than to > learn how) Well, yes I guess I would REALLY like to know more about setting up a large project like this, set up a DB abstration layer, etc etc. I'll spend some time dissecting PHPLIB, writing a lot of code, hopefully successfully debugging a lot of code . . . . . . then when I finally have time at work to move the website over to a real template system with the PHP separated from the html and the design, I'll be able to a) implement PHPLIB template system for the whole site very easily since I'll know enough about it to make whatever hacks are needed to adapt it to our website's needs. I've checkout out reviews on the net and haunted the mailing lists and this seems to be most people's favourite for PHP. b) and I'll have learned some new programming skills that I'll be able to adapt to other projects. The XML/XSL solution also sounds really interesting, but my company has a very small web department (one full time person -- me, the geek) and I'd like to keep the number of technologies they need to support to a minimum. > You don't need to 'install' PHPLib, just get the template.inc file and > include() it in your scripts. There are some good turorials listed on > those articles I pointed out and it's s easy. > Mail me offlist if you need more details. Thanks! Rita. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP] Re: Templates???
PHPLib, Smarty, FastTemplates, and about 10,000 more... -- WARNING [EMAIL PROTECTED] address is an endangered species -- Use [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wanna help me out? Like Music? Buy a CD: http://l-i-e.com/artists.htm Volunteer a little time: http://chatmusic.com/volunteer.htm - Original Message - From: Georgie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: php.general To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:05 PM Subject: Templates??? > Can anyone direct me to some sample PHP code that extracts HTML from a > template file and replaces the, say, "%field%" tags in the HTML with > variables from the PHP file. > > Just like what Gossamer Threads Links program does with Perl. So, any 1 have > any links?? > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
