Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde (final conclusions)
> kde-thirdparty /me prefers kde-extras cheers, Fathi -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde (final conclusions)
On Mié 22 Abr 2009 13:07:02 Ana Guerrero escribió: > On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 06:49:33AM +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote: > > We should kill meta-kde and update meta-kde4 to some final layout. > > ... > > After leaving this issue "sleep" a couple of weeks, I am all for: > > kde-full (current kde4) > kde-minimal > kde-thirdparty > > And we can keep using kde-$MEANING for the metapackages. +1 > Since we have to go to NEW i will add already kde-thirdparty with > RECOMMENDS in amarok, ktorrent, yakuake, rsibreak anything else? ¿konversation maybe? > Another question: kde-full should provide "kde" ? IMHO, the metapackage kde should not exist. > We really need to move forward with the metapackages before people get very > used to current ones... I do also agree here. Reagrds, Lisandro. -- http://mx.grulic.org.ar/lurker/message/20081108.174208.4f42e55c.es.html Así se corrobora el software legal en Argentina Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer http://perezmeyer.com.ar/ http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde (final conclusions)
On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 06:49:33AM +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote: > > We should kill meta-kde and update meta-kde4 to some final layout. > ... After leaving this issue "sleep" a couple of weeks, I am all for: kde-full (current kde4) kde-minimal kde-thirdparty And we can keep using kde-$MEANING for the metapackages. Since we have to go to NEW i will add already kde-thirdparty with RECOMMENDS in amarok, ktorrent, yakuake, rsibreak anything else? I do not know if we need kde-development, and what to put here. If you think it is worth it, anwser here why :D Another question: kde-full should provide "kde" ? We really need to move forward with the metapackages before people get very used to current ones... Ana -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
2009/4/9 Sune Vuorela : > On Wednesday 08 April 2009 20:31:04 Rainer Kluge wrote: >> Ana Guerrero schrieb: >> > - kde-minimal (just rename current kde4-mininal) I am not sure kde-core >> > longer fits. >> > - kde-full (renamed from current kde4) I agree it is clearer than kde. >> >> The real question is about the need of the kde/kde4/kde-full package with >> all this game stuff and dependencies to almost all debian packages. Why not >> suppress it and rename kde4-minimal to kde? > > Exactly because of this debate. > > What should be KDE? > > The thing that upstream ships as KDE? > The thing that Developer A and Developer B has agreed upon? > The thing that Developer C and Developer D has agreed upon? > Whan when users wants more? > > If I was to define what should be installed, I would add: > > kdebase-workspace (for the desktop > kdebase (for dolphin, konqueror and such) > kdepim (or at least most of it: kontact, kmail, korga, kaddressbook, akregator > and kjots) > kdeplasma-addons > A few games (maybe kpat and kmines or so) > parts of kdenetwork (at least kopete) > parts of kdemultimedia (at least juk as media player and kmix and something > for playing cd's) > At least ark, maybe other parts of kdeutils > kdegraphics > Maybe a bit more. That was exactly the idea of the "kde-standard" metapackage that me and Modax were discussing in irc: Make kde-standard install a subset of kde-full that contains what most people use from kde packages, but not 3rd-party kde apps. So, we would have: kde-minimal: depends on all of kdebase, kdelibs, kdepimlibs. kde-standard: depends on the most used kde packages (like those mentioned above by Sune), including kde-minimal kde-full: depends on what upstream ships as kde. In the future we could have kde-3rdparty (or kde-extras?), as Ana suggested, that installs a set of 3rdparty kde apps like amarok, ktorrent, etc but I think this is not for now. Regards -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Thursday 09 April 2009 00:26:02 Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On Thursday 09 April 2009 00:49:07 Sune Vuorela wrote: > > What should be KDE? > > > > The thing that upstream ships as KDE? > > I think the "kde" package should be strongly related to what upstream ships > when they say "new KDE version released". That is the rule for pretty much > all other packages, after all. > > Variations should then be kde-$something, again, same as other packages. > > > The thing that Developer A and Developer B has agreed upon? > > The thing that Developer C and Developer D has agreed upon? > > Whan when users wants more? > > Heh, what about a kde-80-20 package that installs the 20% most popular KDE- > related packages based on popcon, which should then be enough for 80% of > users. ;-) > > > -- > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk One of the 20% of most popular KDE packages would probably be kde-full since most users would probably just want the most complete experience. Anyway, I think you should do what the Gnome team does, which is have a kde-desktop-environment package, which is what you think the base KDE is, and a kde package, containing all that upstream ships as KDE. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Thursday 09 April 2009 00:49:07 Sune Vuorela wrote: > What should be KDE? > > The thing that upstream ships as KDE? I think the "kde" package should be strongly related to what upstream ships when they say "new KDE version released". That is the rule for pretty much all other packages, after all. Variations should then be kde-$something, again, same as other packages. > The thing that Developer A and Developer B has agreed upon? > The thing that Developer C and Developer D has agreed upon? > Whan when users wants more? Heh, what about a kde-80-20 package that installs the 20% most popular KDE- related packages based on popcon, which should then be enough for 80% of users. ;-) -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Thursday 09 April 2009 01:56:12 Scott Kitterman wrote: > I think moving things (like games) that it's nice to provide to recommends, > so they can be removed without removing the metapackage, will defuse a lot > of the tension of these discussions. If it turns out a few too many things > get added to recommends for some people's tastes, they can just remove > them. Yeah, moving kdegames and kdeedu to recommends would seem to do what I would like to use. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 23:49:07 +0200 Sune Vuorela wrote: >On Wednesday 08 April 2009 20:31:04 Rainer Kluge wrote: >> Ana Guerrero schrieb: >> > - kde-minimal (just rename current kde4-mininal) I am not sure kde-core >> > longer fits. >> > - kde-full (renamed from current kde4) I agree it is clearer than kde. >> >> The real question is about the need of the kde/kde4/kde-full package with >> all this game stuff and dependencies to almost all debian packages. Why not >> suppress it and rename kde4-minimal to kde? > >Exactly because of this debate. > >What should be KDE? > >The thing that upstream ships as KDE? >The thing that Developer A and Developer B has agreed upon? >The thing that Developer C and Developer D has agreed upon? >Whan when users wants more? > >If I was to define what should be installed, I would add: > >kdebase-workspace (for the desktop >kdebase (for dolphin, konqueror and such) >kdepim (or at least most of it: kontact, kmail, korga, kaddressbook, akregator >and kjots) >kdeplasma-addons >A few games (maybe kpat and kmines or so) >parts of kdenetwork (at least kopete) >parts of kdemultimedia (at least juk as media player and kmix and something >for playing cd's) >At least ark, maybe other parts of kdeutils >kdegraphics >Maybe a bit more. > >But I know other people would disagree. >And shipping what we currently ship as kde-minimal would I very much like to >not ship as "KDE", as it brings not the full kde experience. > I think moving things (like games) that it's nice to provide to recommends, so they can be removed without removing the metapackage, will defuse a lot of the tension of these discussions. If it turns out a few too many things get added to recommends for some people's tastes, they can just remove them. Scott K -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Wednesday 08 April 2009 20:31:04 Rainer Kluge wrote: > Ana Guerrero schrieb: > > - kde-minimal (just rename current kde4-mininal) I am not sure kde-core > > longer fits. > > - kde-full (renamed from current kde4) I agree it is clearer than kde. > > The real question is about the need of the kde/kde4/kde-full package with > all this game stuff and dependencies to almost all debian packages. Why not > suppress it and rename kde4-minimal to kde? Exactly because of this debate. What should be KDE? The thing that upstream ships as KDE? The thing that Developer A and Developer B has agreed upon? The thing that Developer C and Developer D has agreed upon? Whan when users wants more? If I was to define what should be installed, I would add: kdebase-workspace (for the desktop kdebase (for dolphin, konqueror and such) kdepim (or at least most of it: kontact, kmail, korga, kaddressbook, akregator and kjots) kdeplasma-addons A few games (maybe kpat and kmines or so) parts of kdenetwork (at least kopete) parts of kdemultimedia (at least juk as media player and kmix and something for playing cd's) At least ark, maybe other parts of kdeutils kdegraphics Maybe a bit more. But I know other people would disagree. And shipping what we currently ship as kde-minimal would I very much like to not ship as "KDE", as it brings not the full kde experience. /Sune -- How may I do for logging from the SIMM from Office 93? You can never explore a button to save the periferic on a proxy. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
Ana Guerrero schrieb: > - kde-minimal (just rename current kde4-mininal) I am not sure kde-core longer > fits. > - kde-full (renamed from current kde4) I agree it is clearer than kde. The real question is about the need of the kde/kde4/kde-full package with all this game stuff and dependencies to almost all debian packages. Why not suppress it and rename kde4-minimal to kde? Rainer -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
Hello, On 2009 m. April 8 d., Wednesday 14:23:56 Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Well, being able to say "apt-get install kde" would still be very handy. The problem with "kde" package name is its ambiguousness. Full kde is not what users want most of the time. Now they will have to explicitly choose either kde-full or kde-minimal so they will know what they are getting into. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Mié 08 Abr 2009 08:23:56 Peter Eisentraut escribió: [snip] > Well, being able to say "apt-get install kde" would still be very handy. Yes, but it is a little bit confusing. Or perhaps I should say "too lax". Typing some more clearer words it's a better politic imho. -- I am two fools, I know, for loving, and for saying so. John Donne Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer http://perezmeyer.com.ar/ http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Wednesday 08 April 2009 11:52:36 Ana Guerrero wrote: > So, what about: > > - kde-minimal (just rename current kde4-mininal) I am not sure kde-core > longer fits. > - kde-full (renamed from current kde4) I agree it is clearer than kde. > - kde-development. Not only renamed from kde4-development, also address > #484855 and convert it in what its name says. Well, being able to say "apt-get install kde" would still be very handy. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 06:49:33AM +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote: > > Welcome to the annual metapackages discussion. > After the emails that followed my first mail, I have realized that certainly if the 4 in the meta packages is going to be killed, the sooner, the better. So, what about: - kde-minimal (just rename current kde4-mininal) I am not sure kde-core longer fits. - kde-full (renamed from current kde4) I agree it is clearer than kde. - kde-development. Not only renamed from kde4-development, also address #484855 and convert it in what its name says. In the future, when we have more kde4 apps in the archive we can make the package with 3rd party apps. Modax suggested kde-standard, i think kde-3rdparty could fit too. Ana -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Mar 07 Abr 2009 03:16:17 Modestas Vainius escribió: [snip] > > -keep kde4 and add kde (both do the same) > > I think we should remove such generic package names. At least when users > install kde-full, they are aware what they are getting into. > > >- and add some kde-desktop-full package that is kde4 with a recommends in > > all the cool apps: amarok, yakuake ktorrent... For users that just want > > everything. > > that might be good for the future, when more apps go kde4. However, imho, > depending on kde-full would be a mistake, we need to do a better selection > of packages (e.g. as kde-standard was proposed yesterday). +1 to both things. -- The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which failed to start because of the following error: The operation completed successfully. -- Windows NT Server v3.51 Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer http://perezmeyer.com.ar/ http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
Hello, On 2009 m. April 7 d., Tuesday 08:59:21 Sune Vuorela wrote: > do s/kde4/kde/ across meta-kde4 - and maybe make kde-minimal provide > kde-core. +1 > And maybe rename kde meta package to kde-full. +1 > -keep kde4 and add kde (both do the same) I think we should remove such generic package names. At least when users install kde-full, they are aware what they are getting into. >- and add some kde-desktop-full package that is kde4 with a recommends in all >the cool apps: amarok, yakuake ktorrent... For users that just want >everything. that might be good for the future, when more apps go kde4. However, imho, depending on kde-full would be a mistake, we need to do a better selection of packages (e.g. as kde-standard was proposed yesterday). signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
Re: meta-kde4 and meta-kde
On Tuesday 07 April 2009 06:49:33 Ana Guerrero wrote: > What do you think? What is your proposal here?. do s/kde4/kde/ across meta-kde4 - and maybe make kde-minimal provide kde-core. And maybe rename kde meta package to kde-full. And nothing else. /Sune -- How can I load the bus to the hardware? First you should never remove a GPU. -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
meta-kde4 and meta-kde
Welcome to the annual metapackages discussion. At this moment, we have both meta-kde and meta-kde4 in unstable. meta-kde is broken since it installs kde3 packages and meta-kde4 is just a quick upload with bump dependencies to 4.2.2. We should kill meta-kde and update meta-kde4 to some final layout. * meta-kde provides: kde, kde-devel and kde-core. My proposal here is keeping kde and be the same than currently kde4. * meta-kde4 provides: kde4, kde4-minimal and kde4-developent. My proposal here is: -keep kde4 and add kde (both do the same) -keep kde4-minimal and add kde-mininal (or kde-core :? but it is not longer the same that used to be in kde3...) -transform kde4-development in real development meta package. In the future it will even have kdevelop 4... - and add some kde-desktop-full package that is kde4 with a recommends in all the cool apps: amarok, yakuake ktorrent... For users that just want everything. Having a lot of metapackages is nice, but it gets confusing. It will be hard to reach some equilibrium here. What do you think? What is your proposal here? Ana -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
