Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
Ted's article remains the gold standard even as it is now a couple years old. https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/OpenBSD-on-ERL On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 10:59 AM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss wrote: > > I am now very curious as to the benefits of running OpenBSD vs the Customer > Linux that ERLite uses. (goes to do internet reading) > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 10:36 AM Ed via PLUG-discuss > wrote: >> >> The Edgerouter Lite will also run OpenBSD, even has encryption >> hardware boost available for VPN(but no WiFi). >> Ubiquiti just (~20200705) EOLd the UniFi-Video product to move folks >> into a newer product(done badly, hardware drop etc*), but if you don't >> use UbiFi-Video then no problem... >> >> *signs of problems to come? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23755350 >> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:59 AM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >> > >> > I have yet to run them in a proper mesh, but the 2.4 to 5 handover is >> > really smooth. >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:58 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> How well does Ubiquiti handle things like dynamic channel balancing >> >> (figuring out what ap should run on non-overlapping channels), band >> >> steering (moving 2.4ghz clients to 5ghz), and roaming features? >> >> >> >> Having deployed Cisco/Aruba/Arista/Mist/Aerohive/Meraki they tend to do >> >> this, but need some orchestration, which I ass-u-me Ubiquiti *should*, >> >> but wondering how much tweaking they allow on the RF side. >> >> >> >> -mb >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 7:55 AM Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I second the use of Ubiquiti devices, specifically UniFi. While the >> >>> management interface is proprietary, you can run it in Docker or as I do >> >>> on Debian in a virtual machine. It will automatically discover all >> >>> Ubiquiti UniFi devices on the network and allow you to configure them >> >>> all through the same interface with the same or different configuration >> >>> as the rest. Updates and whatnot all happen through the same interface >> >>> and makes managing many of them a breeze; for instance, want to change >> >>> your wifi password? Update it in one place and all of your access points >> >>> pull in that change. >> >>> >> >>> They're not necessarily that expensive either; you can get the UniFi >> >>> AC-Lite's on Amazon for $89 each; I have 6 of those and one nano HD >> >>> scattered throughout my house and I have yet to roam to a spot that does >> >>> not have excellent wifi coverage. >> >>> >> >>> They're also all powered via POE so if you're able to run ethernet to >> >>> all of them and plug them into a POE switch then you don't have to worry >> >>> about a mess of wires. >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I have been using Ubiquiti for the last few years. Their edge devices >> >>> have been really solid, and the AP I have has been super stable. All the >> >>> management software is free as long as you are willing to set up some >> >>> containers or vm's which in my mind is rather nice. >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after >> >>> review or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a >> >>> bit, and found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but >> >>> didn't want them uploading everything I do back to google. >> >>> >> >>> The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need >> >>> both ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some >> >>> level of "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just >> >>> doesn't seem to get how this "should" work... >> >>> >> >>> I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with zwave >> >>> integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did >> >>> zwave, which I thought would be more distributed across my house. >> >>> Apparently whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless >> >>> works, and would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, >> >>> all 4 of them, which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't >> >>> do that. You always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you >> >>> should ever use in 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" >> >>> products. I crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was >> >>> terrible at 2.4ghz and even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think >> >>> using the same channel was a great idea. Hopefully that person at >> >>> samsung got fired. >> >>> >> >>> Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my house >> >>> using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I installed >> >>> a lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
I am now very curious as to the benefits of running OpenBSD vs the Customer Linux that ERLite uses. (goes to do internet reading) On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 10:36 AM Ed via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > The Edgerouter Lite will also run OpenBSD, even has encryption > hardware boost available for VPN(but no WiFi). > Ubiquiti just (~20200705) EOLd the UniFi-Video product to move folks > into a newer product(done badly, hardware drop etc*), but if you don't > use UbiFi-Video then no problem... > > *signs of problems to come? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23755350 > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:59 AM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > > > > I have yet to run them in a proper mesh, but the 2.4 to 5 handover is > really smooth. > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:58 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> > >> How well does Ubiquiti handle things like dynamic channel balancing > (figuring out what ap should run on non-overlapping channels), band > steering (moving 2.4ghz clients to 5ghz), and roaming features? > >> > >> Having deployed Cisco/Aruba/Arista/Mist/Aerohive/Meraki they tend to do > this, but need some orchestration, which I ass-u-me Ubiquiti *should*, but > wondering how much tweaking they allow on the RF side. > >> > >> -mb > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 7:55 AM Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> I second the use of Ubiquiti devices, specifically UniFi. While the > management interface is proprietary, you can run it in Docker or as I do on > Debian in a virtual machine. It will automatically discover all Ubiquiti > UniFi devices on the network and allow you to configure them all through > the same interface with the same or different configuration as the rest. > Updates and whatnot all happen through the same interface and makes > managing many of them a breeze; for instance, want to change your wifi > password? Update it in one place and all of your access points pull in that > change. > >>> > >>> They're not necessarily that expensive either; you can get the UniFi > AC-Lite's on Amazon for $89 each; I have 6 of those and one nano HD > scattered throughout my house and I have yet to roam to a spot that does > not have excellent wifi coverage. > >>> > >>> They're also all powered via POE so if you're able to run ethernet to > all of them and plug them into a POE switch then you don't have to worry > about a mess of wires. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > >>> > >>> I have been using Ubiquiti for the last few years. Their edge devices > have been really solid, and the AP I have has been super stable. All the > management software is free as long as you are willing to set up some > containers or vm's which in my mind is rather nice. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after > review or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a bit, > and found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but didn't > want them uploading everything I do back to google. > >>> > >>> The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need > both ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some > level of "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just doesn't > seem to get how this "should" work... > >>> > >>> I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with > zwave integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did > zwave, which I thought would be more distributed across my house. > Apparently whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless > works, and would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, all > 4 of them, which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't do > that. You always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you should > ever use in 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" > products. I crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was terrible > at 2.4ghz and even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think using the > same channel was a great idea. Hopefully that person at samsung got fired. > >>> > >>> Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my > house using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I > installed a lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution you can > configure to use the right channels, and introduce some channel avoidance > between them for proper wireless channel distribution. In the 2.4ghz > range, with only 3 usable channels (all of which are used by all your > neighbors), you're mostly screwed, but at least at 5ghz should be ok if > they adjust/avoid used channels, and you get some features like band > steering
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
The Edgerouter Lite will also run OpenBSD, even has encryption hardware boost available for VPN(but no WiFi). Ubiquiti just (~20200705) EOLd the UniFi-Video product to move folks into a newer product(done badly, hardware drop etc*), but if you don't use UbiFi-Video then no problem... *signs of problems to come? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23755350 On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:59 AM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss wrote: > > I have yet to run them in a proper mesh, but the 2.4 to 5 handover is really > smooth. > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:58 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss > wrote: >> >> How well does Ubiquiti handle things like dynamic channel balancing >> (figuring out what ap should run on non-overlapping channels), band steering >> (moving 2.4ghz clients to 5ghz), and roaming features? >> >> Having deployed Cisco/Aruba/Arista/Mist/Aerohive/Meraki they tend to do >> this, but need some orchestration, which I ass-u-me Ubiquiti *should*, but >> wondering how much tweaking they allow on the RF side. >> >> -mb >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 7:55 AM Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >>> >>> I second the use of Ubiquiti devices, specifically UniFi. While the >>> management interface is proprietary, you can run it in Docker or as I do on >>> Debian in a virtual machine. It will automatically discover all Ubiquiti >>> UniFi devices on the network and allow you to configure them all through >>> the same interface with the same or different configuration as the rest. >>> Updates and whatnot all happen through the same interface and makes >>> managing many of them a breeze; for instance, want to change your wifi >>> password? Update it in one place and all of your access points pull in that >>> change. >>> >>> They're not necessarily that expensive either; you can get the UniFi >>> AC-Lite's on Amazon for $89 each; I have 6 of those and one nano HD >>> scattered throughout my house and I have yet to roam to a spot that does >>> not have excellent wifi coverage. >>> >>> They're also all powered via POE so if you're able to run ethernet to all >>> of them and plug them into a POE switch then you don't have to worry about >>> a mess of wires. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>> >>> I have been using Ubiquiti for the last few years. Their edge devices have >>> been really solid, and the AP I have has been super stable. All the >>> management software is free as long as you are willing to set up some >>> containers or vm's which in my mind is rather nice. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss >>> wrote: >>> >>> A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after review >>> or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a bit, and >>> found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but didn't want >>> them uploading everything I do back to google. >>> >>> The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need both >>> ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some level >>> of "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just doesn't seem >>> to get how this "should" work... >>> >>> I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with zwave >>> integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did >>> zwave, which I thought would be more distributed across my house. >>> Apparently whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless >>> works, and would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, all >>> 4 of them, which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't do >>> that. You always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you should >>> ever use in 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" products. >>> I crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was terrible at 2.4ghz >>> and even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think using the same >>> channel was a great idea. Hopefully that person at samsung got fired. >>> >>> Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my house >>> using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I installed a >>> lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution you can configure to >>> use the right channels, and introduce some channel avoidance between them >>> for proper wireless channel distribution. In the 2.4ghz range, with only 3 >>> usable channels (all of which are used by all your neighbors), you're >>> mostly screwed, but at least at 5ghz should be ok if they adjust/avoid used >>> channels, and you get some features like band steering to "influence" >>> devices to move from 2.4 to 5ghz if they behave right. Consumer stuff just >>> doesn't seem to do these features sadly, but good thing you can usually buy >>> old enterprise kit cheap on ebay. >>> >>> I now run a single Arista enterprise AP that does a well
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
I have yet to run them in a proper mesh, but the 2.4 to 5 handover is really smooth. On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:58 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > How well does Ubiquiti handle things like dynamic channel balancing > (figuring out what ap should run on non-overlapping channels), band > steering (moving 2.4ghz clients to 5ghz), and roaming features? > > Having deployed Cisco/Aruba/Arista/Mist/Aerohive/Meraki they tend to do > this, but need some orchestration, which I ass-u-me Ubiquiti *should*, but > wondering how much tweaking they allow on the RF side. > > -mb > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 7:55 AM Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> I second the use of Ubiquiti devices, specifically UniFi. While the >> management interface is proprietary, you can run it in Docker or as I do on >> Debian in a virtual machine. It will automatically discover all Ubiquiti >> UniFi devices on the network and allow you to configure them all through >> the same interface with the same or different configuration as the rest. >> Updates and whatnot all happen through the same interface and makes >> managing many of them a breeze; for instance, want to change your wifi >> password? Update it in one place and all of your access points pull in that >> change. >> >> They're not necessarily that expensive either; you can get the UniFi >> AC-Lite's on Amazon for $89 each; I have 6 of those and one nano HD >> scattered throughout my house and I have yet to roam to a spot that does >> not have excellent wifi coverage. >> >> They're also all powered via POE so if you're able to run ethernet to all >> of them and plug them into a POE switch then you don't have to worry about >> a mess of wires. >> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >> >> I have been using Ubiquiti for the last few years. Their edge devices >> have been really solid, and the AP I have has been super stable. All the >> management software is free as long as you are willing to set up some >> containers or vm's which in my mind is rather nice. >> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < >> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >> >> A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after >> review or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a bit, >> and found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but didn't >> want them uploading everything I do back to google. >> >> The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need >> both ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some >> level of "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just doesn't >> seem to get how this "should" work... >> >> I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with zwave >> integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did >> zwave, which I thought would be more distributed across my house. >> Apparently whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless >> works, and would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, all >> 4 of them, which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't do >> that. You always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you should >> ever use in 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" >> products. I crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was terrible >> at 2.4ghz and even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think using the >> same channel was a great idea. Hopefully that person at samsung got fired. >> >> Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my house >> using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I installed a >> lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution you can configure to >> use the right channels, and introduce some channel avoidance between them >> for proper wireless channel distribution. In the 2.4ghz range, with only 3 >> usable channels (all of which are used by all your neighbors), you're >> mostly screwed, but at least at 5ghz should be ok if they adjust/avoid used >> channels, and you get some features like band steering to "influence" >> devices to move from 2.4 to 5ghz if they behave right. Consumer stuff just >> doesn't seem to do these features sadly, but good thing you can usually buy >> old enterprise kit cheap on ebay. >> >> I now run a single Arista enterprise AP that does a well enough job of >> covering my house for my purposes. I also have some Fortinet AP's wired in >> with my Fortigate firewall as a controller I test with that work both wired >> and wireless, but use a different SSID for those. I mostly use the Arista >> for my primary SSID as it's an 802.1ax AP, but the Fortinets work in full >> mesh (non-wired) using 5ghz for backhaul or as individually wired ap's >> orchestrated via my Fortigate ala my prior Cisco's, and Arista via the >>
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
How well does Ubiquiti handle things like dynamic channel balancing (figuring out what ap should run on non-overlapping channels), band steering (moving 2.4ghz clients to 5ghz), and roaming features? Having deployed Cisco/Aruba/Arista/Mist/Aerohive/Meraki they tend to do this, but need some orchestration, which I ass-u-me Ubiquiti *should*, but wondering how much tweaking they allow on the RF side. -mb On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 7:55 AM Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > I second the use of Ubiquiti devices, specifically UniFi. While the > management interface is proprietary, you can run it in Docker or as I do on > Debian in a virtual machine. It will automatically discover all Ubiquiti > UniFi devices on the network and allow you to configure them all through > the same interface with the same or different configuration as the rest. > Updates and whatnot all happen through the same interface and makes > managing many of them a breeze; for instance, want to change your wifi > password? Update it in one place and all of your access points pull in that > change. > > They're not necessarily that expensive either; you can get the UniFi > AC-Lite's on Amazon for $89 each; I have 6 of those and one nano HD > scattered throughout my house and I have yet to roam to a spot that does > not have excellent wifi coverage. > > They're also all powered via POE so if you're able to run ethernet to all > of them and plug them into a POE switch then you don't have to worry about > a mess of wires. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > > I have been using Ubiquiti for the last few years. Their edge devices have > been really solid, and the AP I have has been super stable. All the > management software is free as long as you are willing to set up some > containers or vm's which in my mind is rather nice. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > > A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after review > or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a bit, and > found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but didn't want > them uploading everything I do back to google. > > The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need both > ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some level > of "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just doesn't seem > to get how this "should" work... > > I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with zwave > integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did > zwave, which I thought would be more distributed across my house. > Apparently whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless > works, and would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, all > 4 of them, which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't do > that. You always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you should > ever use in 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" > products. I crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was terrible > at 2.4ghz and even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think using the > same channel was a great idea. Hopefully that person at samsung got fired. > > Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my house > using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I installed a > lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution you can configure to > use the right channels, and introduce some channel avoidance between them > for proper wireless channel distribution. In the 2.4ghz range, with only 3 > usable channels (all of which are used by all your neighbors), you're > mostly screwed, but at least at 5ghz should be ok if they adjust/avoid used > channels, and you get some features like band steering to "influence" > devices to move from 2.4 to 5ghz if they behave right. Consumer stuff just > doesn't seem to do these features sadly, but good thing you can usually buy > old enterprise kit cheap on ebay. > > I now run a single Arista enterprise AP that does a well enough job of > covering my house for my purposes. I also have some Fortinet AP's wired in > with my Fortigate firewall as a controller I test with that work both wired > and wireless, but use a different SSID for those. I mostly use the Arista > for my primary SSID as it's an 802.1ax AP, but the Fortinets work in full > mesh (non-wired) using 5ghz for backhaul or as individually wired ap's > orchestrated via my Fortigate ala my prior Cisco's, and Arista via the > "cloud". > > I have heard good things about Ubiquiti, but no experience thus far. I > almost bought into some, but figured I'd screw with the Fortinet and Arista > kit as I work with both lots, and found it best staying with enterprise kit > I can granularly control understanding how
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
I'll pile on here. I have been extremely happy with my Unifi gear. Other mesh products I've used weren't nearly as solid. On Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 7:56 AM Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > I second the use of Ubiquiti devices, specifically UniFi. While the > management interface is proprietary, you can run it in Docker or as I do on > Debian in a virtual machine. It will automatically discover all Ubiquiti > UniFi devices on the network and allow you to configure them all through > the same interface with the same or different configuration as the rest. > Updates and whatnot all happen through the same interface and makes > managing many of them a breeze; for instance, want to change your wifi > password? Update it in one place and all of your access points pull in that > change. > > They're not necessarily that expensive either; you can get the UniFi > AC-Lite's on Amazon for $89 each; I have 6 of those and one nano HD > scattered throughout my house and I have yet to roam to a spot that does > not have excellent wifi coverage. > > They're also all powered via POE so if you're able to run ethernet to all > of them and plug them into a POE switch then you don't have to worry about > a mess of wires. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > > I have been using Ubiquiti for the last few years. Their edge devices have > been really solid, and the AP I have has been super stable. All the > management software is free as long as you are willing to set up some > containers or vm's which in my mind is rather nice. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > > A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after review > or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a bit, and > found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but didn't want > them uploading everything I do back to google. > > The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need both > ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some level > of "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just doesn't seem > to get how this "should" work... > > I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with zwave > integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did > zwave, which I thought would be more distributed across my house. > Apparently whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless > works, and would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, all > 4 of them, which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't do > that. You always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you should > ever use in 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" > products. I crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was terrible > at 2.4ghz and even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think using the > same channel was a great idea. Hopefully that person at samsung got fired. > > Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my house > using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I installed a > lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution you can configure to > use the right channels, and introduce some channel avoidance between them > for proper wireless channel distribution. In the 2.4ghz range, with only 3 > usable channels (all of which are used by all your neighbors), you're > mostly screwed, but at least at 5ghz should be ok if they adjust/avoid used > channels, and you get some features like band steering to "influence" > devices to move from 2.4 to 5ghz if they behave right. Consumer stuff just > doesn't seem to do these features sadly, but good thing you can usually buy > old enterprise kit cheap on ebay. > > I now run a single Arista enterprise AP that does a well enough job of > covering my house for my purposes. I also have some Fortinet AP's wired in > with my Fortigate firewall as a controller I test with that work both wired > and wireless, but use a different SSID for those. I mostly use the Arista > for my primary SSID as it's an 802.1ax AP, but the Fortinets work in full > mesh (non-wired) using 5ghz for backhaul or as individually wired ap's > orchestrated via my Fortigate ala my prior Cisco's, and Arista via the > "cloud". > > I have heard good things about Ubiquiti, but no experience thus far. I > almost bought into some, but figured I'd screw with the Fortinet and Arista > kit as I work with both lots, and found it best staying with enterprise kit > I can granularly control understanding how wireless "should" work. I'd be > curious to know how well Ubiuquiti deals with dynamic channel selection, > band-steering, and other "enterprise" features consumer crap sorely misses > on. > > -mb > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mark Phillips via PLUG-discuss < >
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
I recently discovered the backend of the Edgerouter Lite was built from Debian. On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 7:55 AM Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > I second the use of Ubiquiti devices, specifically UniFi. While the > management interface is proprietary, you can run it in Docker or as I do on > Debian in a virtual machine. It will automatically discover all Ubiquiti > UniFi devices on the network and allow you to configure them all through > the same interface with the same or different configuration as the rest. > Updates and whatnot all happen through the same interface and makes > managing many of them a breeze; for instance, want to change your wifi > password? Update it in one place and all of your access points pull in that > change. > > They're not necessarily that expensive either; you can get the UniFi > AC-Lite's on Amazon for $89 each; I have 6 of those and one nano HD > scattered throughout my house and I have yet to roam to a spot that does > not have excellent wifi coverage. > > They're also all powered via POE so if you're able to run ethernet to all > of them and plug them into a POE switch then you don't have to worry about > a mess of wires. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > > I have been using Ubiquiti for the last few years. Their edge devices have > been really solid, and the AP I have has been super stable. All the > management software is free as long as you are willing to set up some > containers or vm's which in my mind is rather nice. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > > A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after review > or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a bit, and > found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but didn't want > them uploading everything I do back to google. > > The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need both > ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some level > of "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just doesn't seem > to get how this "should" work... > > I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with zwave > integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did > zwave, which I thought would be more distributed across my house. > Apparently whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless > works, and would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, all > 4 of them, which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't do > that. You always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you should > ever use in 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" > products. I crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was terrible > at 2.4ghz and even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think using the > same channel was a great idea. Hopefully that person at samsung got fired. > > Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my house > using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I installed a > lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution you can configure to > use the right channels, and introduce some channel avoidance between them > for proper wireless channel distribution. In the 2.4ghz range, with only 3 > usable channels (all of which are used by all your neighbors), you're > mostly screwed, but at least at 5ghz should be ok if they adjust/avoid used > channels, and you get some features like band steering to "influence" > devices to move from 2.4 to 5ghz if they behave right. Consumer stuff just > doesn't seem to do these features sadly, but good thing you can usually buy > old enterprise kit cheap on ebay. > > I now run a single Arista enterprise AP that does a well enough job of > covering my house for my purposes. I also have some Fortinet AP's wired in > with my Fortigate firewall as a controller I test with that work both wired > and wireless, but use a different SSID for those. I mostly use the Arista > for my primary SSID as it's an 802.1ax AP, but the Fortinets work in full > mesh (non-wired) using 5ghz for backhaul or as individually wired ap's > orchestrated via my Fortigate ala my prior Cisco's, and Arista via the > "cloud". > > I have heard good things about Ubiquiti, but no experience thus far. I > almost bought into some, but figured I'd screw with the Fortinet and Arista > kit as I work with both lots, and found it best staying with enterprise kit > I can granularly control understanding how wireless "should" work. I'd be > curious to know how well Ubiuquiti deals with dynamic channel selection, > band-steering, and other "enterprise" features consumer crap sorely misses > on. > > -mb > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mark Phillips via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > > I need to upgrade my
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
I second the use of Ubiquiti devices, specifically UniFi. While the management interface is proprietary, you can run it in Docker or as I do on Debian in a virtual machine. It will automatically discover all Ubiquiti UniFi devices on the network and allow you to configure them all through the same interface with the same or different configuration as the rest. Updates and whatnot all happen through the same interface and makes managing many of them a breeze; for instance, want to change your wifi password? Update it in one place and all of your access points pull in that change. They're not necessarily that expensive either; you can get the UniFi AC-Lite's on Amazon for $89 each; I have 6 of those and one nano HD scattered throughout my house and I have yet to roam to a spot that does not have excellent wifi coverage. They're also all powered via POE so if you're able to run ethernet to all of them and plug them into a POE switch then you don't have to worry about a mess of wires. On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss wrote: > I have been using Ubiquiti for the last few years. Their edge devices have > been really solid, and the AP I have has been super stable. All the > management software is free as long as you are willing to set up some > containers or vm's which in my mind is rather nice. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss > wrote: >> A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after review >> or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a bit, and >> found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but didn't want >> them uploading everything I do back to google. >> >> The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need both >> ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some level of >> "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just doesn't seem to >> get how this "should" work... >> >> I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with zwave >> integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did zwave, >> which I thought would be more distributed across my house. Apparently >> whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless works, and >> would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, all 4 of them, >> which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't do that. You >> always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you should ever use in >> 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" products. I >> crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was terrible at 2.4ghz and >> even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think using the same channel was >> a great idea. Hopefully that person at samsung got fired. >> >> Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my house >> using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I installed a >> lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution you can configure to use >> the right channels, and introduce some channel avoidance between them for >> proper wireless channel distribution. In the 2.4ghz range, with only 3 >> usable channels (all of which are used by all your neighbors), you're mostly >> screwed, but at least at 5ghz should be ok if they adjust/avoid used >> channels, and you get some features like band steering to "influence" >> devices to move from 2.4 to 5ghz if they behave right. Consumer stuff just >> doesn't seem to do these features sadly, but good thing you can usually buy >> old enterprise kit cheap on ebay. >> >> I now run a single Arista enterprise AP that does a well enough job of >> covering my house for my purposes. I also have some Fortinet AP's wired in >> with my Fortigate firewall as a controller I test with that work both wired >> and wireless, but use a different SSID for those. I mostly use the Arista >> for my primary SSID as it's an 802.1ax AP, but the Fortinets work in full >> mesh (non-wired) using 5ghz for backhaul or as individually wired ap's >> orchestrated via my Fortigate ala my prior Cisco's, and Arista via the >> "cloud". >> >> I have heard good things about Ubiquiti, but no experience thus far. I >> almost bought into some, but figured I'd screw with the Fortinet and Arista >> kit as I work with both lots, and found it best staying with enterprise kit >> I can granularly control understanding how wireless "should" work. I'd be >> curious to know how well Ubiuquiti deals with dynamic channel selection, >> band-steering, and other "enterprise" features consumer crap sorely misses >> on. >> >> -mb >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mark Phillips via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >>> I need to upgrade my home wifi network with a high speed mesh network >>> (primarily for better phone coverage in my house - I make a lot of video >>> calls to the UK). I have Cox Gigablast
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
I have been using Ubiquiti for the last few years. Their edge devices have been really solid, and the AP I have has been super stable. All the management software is free as long as you are willing to set up some containers or vm's which in my mind is rather nice. On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after review > or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a bit, and > found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but didn't want > them uploading everything I do back to google. > > The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need both > ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some level > of "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just doesn't seem > to get how this "should" work... > > I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with zwave > integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did > zwave, which I thought would be more distributed across my house. > Apparently whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless > works, and would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, all > 4 of them, which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't do > that. You always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you should > ever use in 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" > products. I crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was terrible > at 2.4ghz and even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think using the > same channel was a great idea. Hopefully that person at samsung got fired. > > Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my house > using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I installed a > lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution you can configure to > use the right channels, and introduce some channel avoidance between them > for proper wireless channel distribution. In the 2.4ghz range, with only 3 > usable channels (all of which are used by all your neighbors), you're > mostly screwed, but at least at 5ghz should be ok if they adjust/avoid used > channels, and you get some features like band steering to "influence" > devices to move from 2.4 to 5ghz if they behave right. Consumer stuff just > doesn't seem to do these features sadly, but good thing you can usually buy > old enterprise kit cheap on ebay. > > I now run a single Arista enterprise AP that does a well enough job of > covering my house for my purposes. I also have some Fortinet AP's wired in > with my Fortigate firewall as a controller I test with that work both wired > and wireless, but use a different SSID for those. I mostly use the Arista > for my primary SSID as it's an 802.1ax AP, but the Fortinets work in full > mesh (non-wired) using 5ghz for backhaul or as individually wired ap's > orchestrated via my Fortigate ala my prior Cisco's, and Arista via the > "cloud". > > I have heard good things about Ubiquiti, but no experience thus far. I > almost bought into some, but figured I'd screw with the Fortinet and Arista > kit as I work with both lots, and found it best staying with enterprise kit > I can granularly control understanding how wireless "should" work. I'd be > curious to know how well Ubiuquiti deals with dynamic channel selection, > band-steering, and other "enterprise" features consumer crap sorely misses > on. > > -mb > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mark Phillips via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> I need to upgrade my home wifi network with a high speed mesh network >> (primarily for better phone coverage in my house - I make a lot of video >> calls to the UK). I have Cox Gigablast on my wired network. The issue I am >> running into is that the "base" unit of the eero units and other vendors' >> boxes have to connect to either (1) the cable model or (2) the router and >> not the switch. My modem, router, and switch are all in a cabinet above my >> desk in the office, so (1) I don't need wifi in the office and (2) I don't >> relish the thought of having a wifi transmitter sitting 3 feet from my head >> 12 hours a day. I want to connect the wifi boxes to my wired network in a >> couple of different rooms away from the office. Eero (and other vendors) >> says the "base" unit has to act as a gateway (my router does that now), so >> it cannot be after the switch. Any suggestions on how I can get a high >> speed mesh network in my house and not take a daily showert in 2+ GHz >> radiation? I also want to use the wired network as the backhaul channel. >> >> Please don't start a discussion on the health effects of wifi radiation. >> Just assume I am so unscientific and superstitious that I believe in wifi >> gremlins and I don't want them invading my head.;) >> >> Thanks! >> >> Mark >>
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
A lot of the consumer "mesh" products I find are pretty janky after review or use. Not tried Eero, but I did try Samsung mesh AP's for a bit, and found them mostly inept. I considered the google units, but didn't want them uploading everything I do back to google. The term "mesh" tends to imply remote units are NOT wired, and I need both ideally. Dealing with a number of wired AP's usually requires some level of "controller" to orchestrate them, but consumer stuff just doesn't seem to get how this "should" work... I got the Samsungs a few years ago for the "SmartThings" hub with zwave integrated, but their wireless was terrible, and only the root AP did zwave, which I thought would be more distributed across my house. Apparently whoever developed samsung's wireless had no idea how wireless works, and would put my 2.4ghz network running most often on channel 5, all 4 of them, which if you know anything about wireless, you just don't do that. You always use channel 1, 6, or 11, really only channels you should ever use in 2.4ghz. Not sure how common this is among "consumer" products. I crap-canned these after about a year as wireless was terrible at 2.4ghz and even 5ghz was pretty wack as they seemed to think using the same channel was a great idea. Hopefully that person at samsung got fired. Prior to that, I ran a number of wired Cisco AP's (4-5) around my house using a Cisco wireless controller appliance for them, which I installed a lot of across enterprises. Any enterprise solution you can configure to use the right channels, and introduce some channel avoidance between them for proper wireless channel distribution. In the 2.4ghz range, with only 3 usable channels (all of which are used by all your neighbors), you're mostly screwed, but at least at 5ghz should be ok if they adjust/avoid used channels, and you get some features like band steering to "influence" devices to move from 2.4 to 5ghz if they behave right. Consumer stuff just doesn't seem to do these features sadly, but good thing you can usually buy old enterprise kit cheap on ebay. I now run a single Arista enterprise AP that does a well enough job of covering my house for my purposes. I also have some Fortinet AP's wired in with my Fortigate firewall as a controller I test with that work both wired and wireless, but use a different SSID for those. I mostly use the Arista for my primary SSID as it's an 802.1ax AP, but the Fortinets work in full mesh (non-wired) using 5ghz for backhaul or as individually wired ap's orchestrated via my Fortigate ala my prior Cisco's, and Arista via the "cloud". I have heard good things about Ubiquiti, but no experience thus far. I almost bought into some, but figured I'd screw with the Fortinet and Arista kit as I work with both lots, and found it best staying with enterprise kit I can granularly control understanding how wireless "should" work. I'd be curious to know how well Ubiuquiti deals with dynamic channel selection, band-steering, and other "enterprise" features consumer crap sorely misses on. -mb On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mark Phillips via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > I need to upgrade my home wifi network with a high speed mesh network > (primarily for better phone coverage in my house - I make a lot of video > calls to the UK). I have Cox Gigablast on my wired network. The issue I am > running into is that the "base" unit of the eero units and other vendors' > boxes have to connect to either (1) the cable model or (2) the router and > not the switch. My modem, router, and switch are all in a cabinet above my > desk in the office, so (1) I don't need wifi in the office and (2) I don't > relish the thought of having a wifi transmitter sitting 3 feet from my head > 12 hours a day. I want to connect the wifi boxes to my wired network in a > couple of different rooms away from the office. Eero (and other vendors) > says the "base" unit has to act as a gateway (my router does that now), so > it cannot be after the switch. Any suggestions on how I can get a high > speed mesh network in my house and not take a daily showert in 2+ GHz > radiation? I also want to use the wired network as the backhaul channel. > > Please don't start a discussion on the health effects of wifi radiation. > Just assume I am so unscientific and superstitious that I believe in wifi > gremlins and I don't want them invading my head.;) > > Thanks! > > Mark > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Looking for Some WiFi Networking Advice
I am rather fond of the Ubiquiti mesh hardware. Gigabit POE powered and a very nice central management toolset. https://unifi-mesh.ui.com/ On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mark Phillips via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > I need to upgrade my home wifi network with a high speed mesh network > (primarily for better phone coverage in my house - I make a lot of video > calls to the UK). I have Cox Gigablast on my wired network. The issue I am > running into is that the "base" unit of the eero units and other vendors' > boxes have to connect to either (1) the cable model or (2) the router and > not the switch. My modem, router, and switch are all in a cabinet above my > desk in the office, so (1) I don't need wifi in the office and (2) I don't > relish the thought of having a wifi transmitter sitting 3 feet from my head > 12 hours a day. I want to connect the wifi boxes to my wired network in a > couple of different rooms away from the office. Eero (and other vendors) > says the "base" unit has to act as a gateway (my router does that now), so > it cannot be after the switch. Any suggestions on how I can get a high > speed mesh network in my house and not take a daily showert in 2+ GHz > radiation? I also want to use the wired network as the backhaul channel. > > Please don't start a discussion on the health effects of wifi radiation. > Just assume I am so unscientific and superstitious that I believe in wifi > gremlins and I don't want them invading my head.;) > > Thanks! > > Mark > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
