[ppig-discuss] another vantage point on usability

2016-12-16 Thread Raoul Duke
http://goo.gl/ThkX8J apologies if this is nothing new here. sorry for bad paste formatting below. Subrecursive Programming Languages, Part h Efficiency and Program Structure ROBERT L. CONSTABLE Cornell University, Ithaca, New York AND ALLAN B. BORODIN University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Cana

[ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread neil johnson
this is a pretty specific topic, but I'm looking for material/research related to the psychological effects of software defects on developers. specifically, I'm wondering if there's any research that shows developers feel an emotional benefit from finding/fixing a software defect (and further t

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread Derek M Jones
Neil, or put another way... if software developers (problem solvers) actually enjoy finding/fixing defects (solving problems), is the personal joy they feel great enough You have obviously never worked in software development. Developers hate fixing defects. Developers enjoy writing new code

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread Paola Kathuria
Derek writes: > You have obviously never worked in software development. One of the things I’ve learnt is that any statement starting with “you” is very likely to make people defensive and produce a negative outcome. Derek, I’d appreciate it if you could express your opinions from your perspect

RE: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread Gail Ollis
It might be helpful if you clarify whether you mean ephemeral flaws (see work by Tamara Lopez) or reported bugs. Personally I can confess to occasions as a developer when there has been a little hint of anti-climax when something i write works first time. I can't deny that tackling the puzzle o

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread Huw Lloyd
Hi Neil, On opinion, I see more value in discerning what (cultural, historical) affordances there are for doing good work (collaboration, craftsmanship, design, reflexive development of skills) and consider what avenues there are for satisfaction within those settings. Best, Huw -- http://www.boo

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread Thomas Green
Long time since I’ve done this and I was never professional, but I remember thinking that a good intriguing bug was like a good whodunnit - looking for shreds of evidence, and getting a nice surprise when I found the answer - and a bit of an ego-boost, quite often (“oooh, aren’t I clever, to hav

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread Derek M Jones
Paola, You have obviously never worked in software development. One of the things I’ve learnt is that any statement starting with “you” is very likely to make people defensive and produce a negative outcome. I'm sure Neil can stand up for himself. Derek, I’d appreciate it if you could exp

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread Derek M Jones
Neil, ha. I guess there's more than 1 perspective here. I'm a test engineer. I think it's common for testers to feel that finding a defect validates their existence (makes them happy). Yes, I have seen this. It is a shame, because tests that don't fail can be just as useful. I have read a sur

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread Huw Lloyd
Un-substantiated generalisations combined with accusations are rude in a number of ways, Derek. If you write to a group, you are writing to a group. Writing to a group is supposed to help you with your manners! I would not have an issues if Paola exercised moderation duties beyond polite emails.

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread neil johnson
ha. I guess there's more than 1 perspective here. I'm a test engineer. I think it's common for testers to feel that finding a defect validates their existence (makes them happy). and at a minimum, I think developers are relieved by defects being fixed (even if we assume they hate doing it). On

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread neil johnson
thomas, that's pretty much it (right down to the mention of unit testing... though technique probably isn't important for the discussion). wrt taking on new techniques that promote defect reduction, I've heard extra effort mentioned as a deterrent (I don't have time for this). I know learning ne

Re: [ppig-discuss] psychological effect of software defects

2016-12-16 Thread Thomas Green
> On 16 Dec 2016, at 22:40, neil johnson wrote: > > the one I've never thought of until recently is the idea that we might > possibly feel less fulfilled without those "aren't I clever" moments. I > wouldn't claim it's the deciding factor, but a possible factor nonetheless. So can anyone thi