Re: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency

[Matthew Dixon Cowles]

Please correct me if I get any quoting below wrong, it seems to have
come through a bit confused.

[Steve Holden]
> For Heaven's sake. We elect a board to look after these issues. You
> can't expect to second-guess every deliberation. If you want to do
> that, stand for the board.

[Karl Karsten]
> I have no idea what the individual board members think. Even when
> there is a unanimous vote, I still don't know why they voted that
> way.

I too think it's legitimate for members to want to know not just the
"what" but also the "why".

[Steve Holden]
> Because that's what they thought would be in the Foundation's best
> interests.

The PSF is a pretty big organization now. (Though I don't seem to be
able to find a recent budget to see just how big. Is that a fault in
my searching?)

I think that members could have an interest in something more than
belief in good intentions. The same good intentions can lead
different people to different conclusions.

I bet even Perl programmers have good intentions!

Regards,
Matt

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[PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency

[Carl Karsten]

"The psf-board-public mailing list, which is used for board discussions
which are not legally or otherwise sensitive, allowing them to be shared
with the wider PSF membership."
- https://wiki.python.org/psf/Info%20for%20new%20PSF%20members

That does not seem accurate, and I consider it a problem.

The only traffic this list gets is Diana's post of the meeting minutes
(Thank you Diana) with these exceptions I found:

1 post form a board member, no reply.  Not sure that qualifies as a
discussion.
https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-board-public/2015-October/001110.html

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 7:22 AM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> IMO, Van's version is ... (follow the link if you want to know the rest)
https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-board-public/2015-August/thread.html

This shows me that MAL is taking an active role in shaping the results.   I
may not really agree with his position, but I know what it is, and if I
strongly disagreed I would like to think someone would want to hear about
it.  And or if I disagree with enough of his ideas, maybe I won't vote for
him.

May June and July have a little activity too:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-board-public/2015-July/thread.html

It looks like most of the traffic is from non board members.

Is this why the board stopped using it for board discussions?

Why are non board members allowed to post to the board list?


Steve,

I am trying to elect board members and want to know how they feel about
something I care about.  If you want to have a discussion, start a new
thread.



On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Steve Holden  wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Carl Karsten 
wrote:
>>
>> > I also used to wonder what was being discussed behind closed doors.
>>
>> We shouldn't have to wonder. If it really is that boring, fine, but it
should be up to me to decide how I spend my time.
>>
>> The posted minutes are just a summary and results of the discussions and
votes.  They don't tell me what was seen as pros and cons and how they were
weighted.
>>
> For Heaven's sake. We elect a board to look after these issues. You can't
expect to second-guess every deliberation. If you want to do that, stand
for the board.
>
>> I have no idea what the individual board members think. Even when there
is a unanimous vote, I still don't know why they voted that way.
>>
> Because that's what they thought would be in the Foundation's best
interests.
>
> [...]
>
> Steve Holden




--
Carl K
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Re: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency

[Steve Holden]

Stand for the board and make sure it becomes more transparent?  S

Steve Holden

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Carl Karsten 
wrote:

> All of the people nominated for the PSF board are good people who will do
> good things.  If things were running smooth, I wouldn't really care who
> gets elected.
>
> But once again, we see people asking questions due to lack of transparency.
>
> So once again, I ask:  What will you do about it?
>
> --
> Carl K
>
>
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>
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