RE: imdb as linked open data?
identifiers and cross-domain equivalency relationships are the most pertinent problems to crack... Yes, and there are solutions taking shape as I type :-) sounds promising, could you tell us more, kingsley? will you be at: http://www.okkam.org/IRSW2008/ ? How do these (old media) organizations anticipate rather than react to the imminent Linked Data Web inflection? well, i/we don't have the long term business model at all sorted, but i think the first step is making sure our content is tagged up with web-native URIs for what it's about (thus my imdb, wikipedia, musicbrainz trifecta), and then making sure that the content is made available to the greater Web as RDF under a creative commons-ish license... somewhat like the BBC Music reviews are now, but with more RDF... http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/release/n6gb/ best-- --cs -Original Message- From: Kingsley Idehen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 4/5/2008 11:43 PM To: Chris Sizemore Cc: public-lod@w3.org; Michael Smethurst; Silver Oliver; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Brickley; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: imdb as linked open data? Chris Sizemore wrote: good stuff, kingsley -- BTW i'm hoping to get some of the nytimes guys out to see you et al at: http://www.linkeddataplanet.com/index.php perhaps the main use case for large content-centric (as opposed to big *concept*-centric, if you follow the distinction?) orgs like the BBC and NYtimes is aggregating content across content owners/silos... And so much more :-) It's this part of the picture that hasn't been articulated that well :-) How to the BBC, New York Times, and an other (dare I say) traditional media behemoths exploit the next Web frontier ? How do these organizations anticipate rather than react to the imminent Linked Data Web inflection? Is a Linked Data business model a mercurial oxymoron? These are the real questions :-) identifiers and cross-domain equivalency relationships are the most pertinent problems to crack... Yes, and there are solutions taking shape as I type :-) sure, Google News, et al, do this already, but it could be so much better with linked data and sem web annotations... Amen! that's why i think we shouldn't be too precious about using Web-of-Docs imDB URIs, etc, to help us identify concepts/things... it's too valuable in terms of tagging content to ignore just because there's currently no RDF available... here's a presentation i contributed to which tries to explain some of this. clearly, we are implicitly refering to Linked Open Data in this presentation... http://www.slideshare.net/guest2c797e/wikipedia-as-controlled-vocabulary http://sells.welcomebackstage.com:5000/item/submit http://ivanherman.wordpress.com/2007/10/12/wikipedia-uri-s-as-reliable-identifiers-for-the-semantic-web/ do let me know what you make of it, if you have time to have a look... I will have a look and certainly get back to you! Kingsley best-- --cs -Original Message- From: Kingsley Idehen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 4/5/2008 2:26 PM To: Chris Sizemore Cc: public-lod@w3.org; Michael Smethurst; Silver Oliver; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Brickley Subject: Re: imdb as linked open data? Chris Sizemore wrote: hmmm, kingsley, I'm not sure those labels are clear, actually... I think I understand the distinctions, but... Chris, I am saying that we communicate the essence of the matter (at the current time): Linked Data Web as an adjunct to the current Document Web, rather than lose our emerging audience -- a frequent occurrence when using the broader term: Semantic Web :-) I think this issue of description and language certainly needs collaborative work via a Wiki article etc.. I am more or less done with the LOD Wiki Space http://community.linkeddata.org/MediaWiki. Which can act an area for us to finesse some of our descriptions and language. The setup is explained at: http://community.linkeddata.org/MediaWiki/index.php?VirtuosoWiki:About Kingsley -Original Message- From: Kingsley Idehen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2008 16:28 To: Chris Sizemore Cc: Tom Heath; public-lod@w3.org; Michael Smethurst; Silver Oliver; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Brickley Subject: Re: imdb as linked open data? Chris Sizemore wrote: I'm not sure the Semantic Web is hard; we've just got to be clear about how we communicate it to people. agreed! Correct, this is why I start with: Linked Data Web or Web or Linked Data :-) Kingsley --cs -Original Message- From: Tom Heath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2008 14:27 To: Chris Sizemore; public-lod@w3.org Cc: Michael Smethurst; Silver Oliver; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Brickley Subject: RE: imdb as linked open data? Hi Chris, all, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL
RE: imdb as linked open data?
good stuff, kingsley -- BTW i'm hoping to get some of the nytimes guys out to see you et al at: http://www.linkeddataplanet.com/index.php perhaps the main use case for large content-centric (as opposed to big *concept*-centric, if you follow the distinction?) orgs like the BBC and NYtimes is aggregating content across content owners/silos... identifiers and cross-domain equivalency relationships are the most pertinent problems to crack... sure, Google News, et al, do this already, but it could be so much better with linked data and sem web annotations... that's why i think we shouldn't be too precious about using Web-of-Docs imDB URIs, etc, to help us identify concepts/things... it's too valuable in terms of tagging content to ignore just because there's currently no RDF available... here's a presentation i contributed to which tries to explain some of this. clearly, we are implicitly refering to Linked Open Data in this presentation... http://www.slideshare.net/guest2c797e/wikipedia-as-controlled-vocabulary http://sells.welcomebackstage.com:5000/item/submit http://ivanherman.wordpress.com/2007/10/12/wikipedia-uri-s-as-reliable-identifiers-for-the-semantic-web/ do let me know what you make of it, if you have time to have a look... best-- --cs -Original Message- From: Kingsley Idehen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 4/5/2008 2:26 PM To: Chris Sizemore Cc: public-lod@w3.org; Michael Smethurst; Silver Oliver; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Brickley Subject: Re: imdb as linked open data? Chris Sizemore wrote: hmmm, kingsley, I'm not sure those labels are clear, actually... I think I understand the distinctions, but... Chris, I am saying that we communicate the essence of the matter (at the current time): Linked Data Web as an adjunct to the current Document Web, rather than lose our emerging audience -- a frequent occurrence when using the broader term: Semantic Web :-) I think this issue of description and language certainly needs collaborative work via a Wiki article etc.. I am more or less done with the LOD Wiki Space http://community.linkeddata.org/MediaWiki. Which can act an area for us to finesse some of our descriptions and language. The setup is explained at: http://community.linkeddata.org/MediaWiki/index.php?VirtuosoWiki:About Kingsley -Original Message- From: Kingsley Idehen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2008 16:28 To: Chris Sizemore Cc: Tom Heath; public-lod@w3.org; Michael Smethurst; Silver Oliver; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Brickley Subject: Re: imdb as linked open data? Chris Sizemore wrote: I'm not sure the Semantic Web is hard; we've just got to be clear about how we communicate it to people. agreed! Correct, this is why I start with: Linked Data Web or Web or Linked Data :-) Kingsley --cs -Original Message- From: Tom Heath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2008 14:27 To: Chris Sizemore; public-lod@w3.org Cc: Michael Smethurst; Silver Oliver; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Brickley Subject: RE: imdb as linked open data? Hi Chris, all, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Sizemore Sent: 04 April 2008 13:38 To: public-lod@w3.org Cc: Michael Smethurst; Silver Oliver; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: imdb as linked open data? all-- so, i was correct in thinking that imdb is interesting to the LOD community. Correct :) i agree that offering what's a/the Sem Web business model? is pretty important in order to get buy in... does anyone have any contacts in and around imdb? I think there might be a Bristol connection here. Perhaps danbri can help. Dan? * forgive the following if it's controversial -- i'm honestly just trying to understand better *** Discussion is good. Bring it on! however, on a more philosophical note, i DON'T think imdb neccesarily needs to explicitly opt into the Web of Data in order for the world at large to find Sem Web value in that data... i suppose it would be very desirable for imdb to officially provide Open Data/rdf of their content, but i don't think that's the only way for the Sem Web to gain value from imdb... basically, my premise is this: imdb is on the Web of Docs, and that's good enough for the purpose of answering the question to be posed here -- http://www.okkam.org/IRSW2008/ (the problem of identity and reference on the Semantic Web is perhaps the single most important issue for reaching a global scale. Initiatives like LinkedData, OntoWorld and the large number of proposals aiming at using popular URLs (e.g. Wikipedia's) as canonical URIs (especially for non informational resources) show
RE: imdb as linked open data?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sergey Chernyshev Sent: 03 April 2008 17:47 To: public-lod@w3.org Subject: Re: imdb as linked open data? Yes, it's exactly the thing I was thinking about - what is the business model (or at least approach that can bring money) for content providers to 1. create data 2. release it under open (or not so open) license so other parties can freely use it 3. and spend money on RDFizing it I think, until this is resolved, Semantic Web is not going to blossom and go far beyond open data. Publishers are fighting for attention because current business model is based on advertising (other models like micropayments, payment propagation from ISPs to content providers and so on didn't work out). That's why they are happy to give money and optimize their content to Google standards for SEO purposes, but what will make them RDFize their data? But in reality it's not all that bad - RSS showed that people are interested in opening their content and adding structure to it if users come back to their site to enjoy full experience. It's just a question of what level of open data will those big (or not so big) publishers open to public and at which point will users need to go back to their site to see the ads. Or maybe see the ads withing the consuming application? In any case, I think it's a big question worth discussing, unfortunately I didn't see any business-related sessions on LinkedData Planet. Sergey On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Hugh Glaser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 03/04/2008 12:41, Kingsley Idehen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hugh Glaser wrote: ... Hugh Hugh, This is an example of many to come, where LOD needs to pitch the value of Linked Data to Information Publishers :-) I think they will ultimately publish and host their own RDF Linked Data once the intrinsic value is clear to them. And when there is also actual extrinsic value? :-) But yes, and making it easy for them, possibly by actually doing it for them, is part of the bootstrap process. The thing I am trying to work out is exactly how to make the pitch that fits with their business model, and where their profit line might come from. This requires a serious understanding of the detailed business model for the company in question (which is not necessarily a skill the an academic SW researcher has!). We also have similar LOD installations for CORDIS (the EU funding agencies' DB), NSF (a US funding agency), EPSRC (a UK funding agency), and ACM, among others. We have now engineered them so that they can be moved to the Information Publisher if desired. Such organisations sometimes have it as part of their remit to publicise the results, so they should be easier to deal with, in theory. If anyone has a ready conduit to the appropriate place in such organisations, we would be delighted to talk with them, showing them what might be done. -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen President CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com -- Sergey Chernyshev http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this.
Re: imdb as linked open data?
Tom Heath wrote: Hi Chris, all, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Sizemore Sent: 04 April 2008 13:38 To: public-lod@w3.org Cc: Michael Smethurst; Silver Oliver; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: imdb as linked open data? all-- so, i was correct in thinking that imdb is interesting to the LOD community. Correct :) i agree that offering what's a/the Sem Web business model? is pretty important in order to get buy in... does anyone have any contacts in and around imdb? I think there might be a Bristol connection here. Perhaps danbri can help. Dan? Good guess :) As it happens, I met the-person who-is-the-primaryTopic-of http://upcoming.yahoo.com/user/139347/ on tuesday, during a meeting of the group whose-homepage-is http://b-u-g.wikispaces.com/ ... We talked about IMDB a bit, it's not inconceivable they'd be interested, but would need to be a good business story to justify developer time going on this over other things... Let's arrange lunch or something in Bristol soon... cheers, Dan ps. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lod/ is news to me... -- http://danbri.org/
Re: imdb as linked open data?
Hello! I'd just like to point out the following: http://www.omdb.org/movie which has a better licensing, it seems: http://www.omdb.org/content/Copyright Perhaps worth getting in touch with them to see if they can provide some RDF? AFAIK Jen Golbeck used imdb data for Filmtrust [1] (not this is not published as linked data unfortunately, and I'm not sure what the status is), but in general I think people have given the imdb data a fairly wide berth in the LOD community precisely due to the licensing issues. I certainly looked into it WRT Revyu, but instead opted to use film data from Dbpedia as this is more in spirit with the efforts of the community. Until the day comes when imdb publishes linkable (and linked) data then I'd argue in favour of giving the link-cred to Dbpedia. Last summer at KMi Peter Coetzee produced a pretty accurate list of all the films in Dbpedia, excluding the items classified as films that actually aren't. This produced a set of ~12,000 items (down from the 30,000 actually classified as films - sorry Georgi ;) I'd be very happy to dig this data set out of storage and share it with the community if people would be interested to see it. snip in other words, given the imdb licensing realities, are imdb URIs useful as identifiers even if we can't use the related data? are URIs useful in LOD on their own? /snip In summary I think we should pour the effort into Dbpedia (and related projects already within the LD space), on the basis that imdb can join the party later if they wish. Re using URI's based on imdb identifiers, I think it does no harm to add pointers to imdb pages (e.g. film-on-dbpedia foaf:page page-on-imdb), but one shouldn't mint URIs in someone else namespace (i.e. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/#thing is out). However, there's nothing to stop you minting identifiers such as http://mydomain.eg/imdb/title/tt0088846. Yes, I would either mint new URIs, which can later sameAs to IMDB URIs, or use a foaf:page to link to the IMDB page. Anyway, both of them would be useful! Cheers! y
Re: imdb as linked open data?
On 03/04/2008 12:41, Kingsley Idehen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hugh Glaser wrote: ... Hugh Hugh, This is an example of many to come, where LOD needs to pitch the value of Linked Data to Information Publishers :-) I think they will ultimately publish and host their own RDF Linked Data once the intrinsic value is clear to them. And when there is also actual extrinsic value? :-) But yes, and making it easy for them, possibly by actually doing it for them, is part of the bootstrap process. The thing I am trying to work out is exactly how to make the pitch that fits with their business model, and where their profit line might come from. This requires a serious understanding of the detailed business model for the company in question (which is not necessarily a skill the an academic SW researcher has!). We also have similar LOD installations for CORDIS (the EU funding agencies' DB), NSF (a US funding agency), EPSRC (a UK funding agency), and ACM, among others. We have now engineered them so that they can be moved to the Information Publisher if desired. Such organisations sometimes have it as part of their remit to publicise the results, so they should be easier to deal with, in theory. If anyone has a ready conduit to the appropriate place in such organisations, we would be delighted to talk with them, showing them what might be done. -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen President CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Re: imdb as linked open data?
Yes, it's exactly the thing I was thinking about - what is the business model (or at least approach that can bring money) for content providers to 1. create data 2. release it under open (or not so open) license so other parties can freely use it 3. and spend money on RDFizing it I think, until this is resolved, Semantic Web is not going to blossom and go far beyond open data. Publishers are fighting for attention because current business model is based on advertising (other models like micropayments, payment propagation from ISPs to content providers and so on didn't work out). That's why they are happy to give money and optimize their content to Google standards for SEO purposes, but what will make them RDFize their data? But in reality it's not all that bad - RSS showed that people are interested in opening their content and adding structure to it if users come back to their site to enjoy full experience. It's just a question of what level of open data will those big (or not so big) publishers open to public and at which point will users need to go back to their site to see the ads. Or maybe see the ads withing the consuming application? In any case, I think it's a big question worth discussing, unfortunately I didn't see any business-related sessions on LinkedData Planet. Sergey On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Hugh Glaser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 03/04/2008 12:41, Kingsley Idehen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hugh Glaser wrote: ... Hugh Hugh, This is an example of many to come, where LOD needs to pitch the value of Linked Data to Information Publishers :-) I think they will ultimately publish and host their own RDF Linked Data once the intrinsic value is clear to them. And when there is also actual extrinsic value? :-) But yes, and making it easy for them, possibly by actually doing it for them, is part of the bootstrap process. The thing I am trying to work out is exactly how to make the pitch that fits with their business model, and where their profit line might come from. This requires a serious understanding of the detailed business model for the company in question (which is not necessarily a skill the an academic SW researcher has!). We also have similar LOD installations for CORDIS (the EU funding agencies' DB), NSF (a US funding agency), EPSRC (a UK funding agency), and ACM, among others. We have now engineered them so that they can be moved to the Information Publisher if desired. Such organisations sometimes have it as part of their remit to publicise the results, so they should be easier to deal with, in theory. If anyone has a ready conduit to the appropriate place in such organisations, we would be delighted to talk with them, showing them what might be done. -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehenhttp://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen President CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com -- Sergey Chernyshev http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/
Re: imdb as linked open data?
Hugh Glaser wrote: On 03/04/2008 12:41, Kingsley Idehen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hugh Glaser wrote: ... Hugh Hugh, This is an example of many to come, where LOD needs to pitch the value of Linked Data to Information Publishers :-) I think they will ultimately publish and host their own RDF Linked Data once the intrinsic value is clear to them. And when there is also actual extrinsic value? :-) :-) But yes, and making it easy for them, possibly by actually doing it for them, is part of the bootstrap process. Of course :-) The thing I am trying to work out is exactly how to make the pitch that fits with their business model, and where their profit line might come from. This requires a serious understanding of the detailed business model for the company in question (which is not necessarily a skill the an academic SW researcher has!). Here is my pitch: Make yourself more discoverable on the Web via your data . We also have similar LOD installations for CORDIS (the EU funding agencies' DB), NSF (a US funding agency), EPSRC (a UK funding agency), and ACM, among others. We have now engineered them so that they can be moved to the Information Publisher if desired. Such organisations sometimes have it as part of their remit to publicise the results, so they should be easier to deal with, in theory. And they benefit in the same way, in line with goals of their Grants :-) If anyone has a ready conduit to the appropriate place in such organisations, we would be delighted to talk with them, showing them what might be done. Others: Same here :-) Kingsley -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen President CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen President CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
