Re: [webcomponents] Standard Use Case (Was Auto-creating shadow DOM for custom elements)

2013-12-10 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
Let's take a look at the original list of use cases proposed in 2008 at http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Component_Model_Use_Cases: Layout Manager Layout Manager Use Case Parameters Who Web Framework Engineer What Build a layout library, consisting of a UI layout primitives, such as panel,

Re: [webcomponents] Auto-creating shadow DOM for custom elements

2013-12-10 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Dec 8, 2013, at 12:19 PM, Daniel Freedman dfre...@google.com wrote: Developers want data-binding, and the auto cloning template does not give them a favorable timing model. They want to set those up before the ShadowDOM is stamped, on a per-instance level. If they were to use the

Re: [webcomponents] Auto-creating shadow DOM for custom elements

2013-12-10 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Dec 7, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Rafael Weinstein rafa...@google.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote: On Dec 7, 2013, at 3:53 PM, Rafael Weinstein rafa...@google.com wrote: The issue is that being an element and having shadow DOM -- or any display

Re: [webcomponents] Auto-creating shadow DOM for custom elements

2013-12-10 Thread Brian Di Palma
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote: On Dec 7, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Rafael Weinstein rafa...@google.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote: On Dec 7, 2013, at 3:53 PM, Rafael Weinstein rafa...@google.com wrote: The

Re: CfC: publish LCWD of DOM Parsing and Serialization; deadline December 3

2013-12-10 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Travis Leithead travis.leith...@microsoft.com wrote: [...] I added this serialization step as optional, conditional on the browser storing an internalSubset. It is somewhat upsetting that in 2013 we still need to discuss why optional features and specifications

Call for Exclusions: DOM Parsing and Serialization

2013-12-10 Thread Coralie Mercier
Dear Advisory Committee representative, This is a W3C Patent Policy Call for Exclusions for the following Recommendation Track document: - DOM Parsing and Serialization (http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Parsing/), exclusion opportunity ending on 8 February 2014 23:59 UTC This specification

Re: Call for Exclusions: DOM Parsing and Serialization

2013-12-10 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Coralie Mercier cora...@w3.org wrote: - DOM Parsing and Serialization (http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Parsing/), There were several outstanding comments against publishing and the WG published anyway? What is going on? -- http://annevankesteren.nl/

Re: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:42 AM, Dominic Cooney domin...@google.com wrote: You assert that inheriting from built-in elements does not make any sense. You seem to base this on the claim that hooks (the example being form submission protocol hooks) are not well defined. Whether hooks are well

Re: Call for Exclusions: DOM Parsing and Serialization

2013-12-10 Thread Arthur Barstow
On 12/10/13 10:21 AM, ext Anne van Kesteren wrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Coralie Mercier cora...@w3.org wrote: - DOM Parsing and Serialization (http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Parsing/), There were several outstanding comments against publishing and the WG published anyway? What is

Re: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Erik Arvidsson
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nlwrote: I think Ryosuke has a point here though. ES6 brings subclassing to the platform, but are not even close to reimagining the platform in terms of that. ES6 does not bring sub classing to the table. It has been there

Re: Call for Exclusions: DOM Parsing and Serialization

2013-12-10 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Arthur Barstow art.bars...@nokia.com wrote: During the CfC, I only recall one technical comment and Travis created bug [23936] for that comment and he noted that comment will be considered as a `LC comment`. It seems the technical comment about it blatantly

Re: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 12/10/13 10:34 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote: E.g. the dialog's close() method won't work as defined right now on a subclass of HTMLDialogElement. Why not? I assumed that actual ES6 subclassing, complete with invoking the right superclass @@create, would in fact produce an object for which

Re: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Erik Arvidsson a...@chromium.org wrote: I think Ryosuke has a point here though. ES6 brings subclassing to the platform, but are not even close to reimagining the platform in terms of that. ES6 does not bring sub classing to the table. It has been there all

Re: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: On 12/10/13 10:34 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote: E.g. the dialog's close() method won't work as defined right now on a subclass of HTMLDialogElement. Why not? I assumed that actual ES6 subclassing, complete with invoking

RE: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Domenic Denicola
From: a...@google.com a...@google.com on behalf of Erik Arvidsson a...@chromium.org On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl wrote: I think Ryosuke has a point here though. ES6 brings subclassing to the platform, but are not even close to reimagining the

Re: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Domenic Denicola dome...@domenicdenicola.com wrote: Nevertheless, it would be unfortunate to use the in-progress nature of making the web platform more JavaScript-friendly as an argument for making it more JavaScript hostile (by prohibiting element

RfC: LCWD of DOM Parsing and Serialization; deadline 7 January 2014

2013-12-10 Thread Arthur Barstow
This is a Request for Comments for the Last Call Working Draft of DOM Parsing and Serialization: http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-DOM-Parsing-20131210/ If you have any comments, please send them to public-webapps @ w3.org by 7 January 2014. The bugs for this spec are [Bugs]. -Thanks, AB

Re: Call for Exclusions: DOM Parsing and Serialization

2013-12-10 Thread Charles McCathie Nevile
On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 17:21:20 +0100, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl wrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Arthur Barstow art.bars...@nokia.com wrote: Anyhow, if the bug doesn't capture your concern(s), please update it. Since when did we start putting the onus on the reviewer that

Re: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Erik Arvidsson
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nlwrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Domenic Denicola dome...@domenicdenicola.com wrote: Nevertheless, it would be unfortunate to use the in-progress nature of making the web platform more JavaScript-friendly as an

Refactoring SharedWorkers out of Web Workers W3C spec

2013-12-10 Thread Travis Leithead
During TPAC 2013 in Shenzhen, I took an action item [1][2] to remove Shared Workers from the W3C Web Workers spec [3] in order for the spec to pass the first of the two stated CR exit criteria in the spec itself. It is my intention to start this work soon. My question for the group-should I

Re: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Elliott Sprehn
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl wrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: On 12/10/13 10:34 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote: E.g. the dialog's close() method won't work as defined right now on a subclass of

Re: Refactoring SharedWorkers out of Web Workers W3C spec

2013-12-10 Thread Charles McCathie Nevile
On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 20:14:35 +0100, Travis Leithead travis.leith...@microsoft.com wrote: During TPAC 2013 in Shenzhen, I took an action item [1][2] to remove Shared Workers from the W3C Web Workers spec [3] in order for the spec to pass the first of the two stated CR exit criteria in the

Re: [webcomponents] Inheritance in Custom Elements (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

2013-12-10 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Dec 10, 2013, at 9:20 AM, Erik Arvidsson a...@chromium.org wrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl wrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Domenic Denicola dome...@domenicdenicola.com wrote: Nevertheless, it would be unfortunate to use the in-progress

Re: Refactoring SharedWorkers out of Web Workers W3C spec

2013-12-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
We at Mozilla just finished our implementation of Shared Workers. It will be turned on in the nightly releases starting tomorrow (or maybe thursday) and will hit release on April 29th. So if we are only reason we're doing anything here is lack of a 2nd implementation, then we might already be

Re: Refactoring SharedWorkers out of Web Workers W3C spec

2013-12-10 Thread James Graham
On 10/12/13 21:09, Jonas Sicking wrote: We at Mozilla just finished our implementation of Shared Workers. It will be turned on in the nightly releases starting tomorrow (or maybe thursday) and will hit release on April 29th. So if we are only reason we're doing anything here is lack of a 2nd

Re: Refactoring SharedWorkers out of Web Workers W3C spec

2013-12-10 Thread Alexandre Morgaut
As the specification was more written for browser targets I'm not sure if it count for an implementation to you but note that Shared Worker, as well as dedicated workers, are also implemented natively on the server in Wakanda since few versions and often used in this context. see:

Re: Styling form control elements

2013-12-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Domenic Denicola dome...@domenicdenicola.com wrote: From: Jonas Sicking [mailto:jo...@sicking.cc] The reason you've been unable to get rid of the arrow is because it's a separate box that is rendered inside the outermost box. That will remain true even if

RE: Styling form control elements

2013-12-10 Thread Domenic Denicola
From: Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc Actually, I think our mental models are surprisingly aligned. Which is great! More below. Sweet! So dropping the arrowthingy element seems fine. I'm not opposed to it, just trying to come up with something minimal. option:hover should just work, no?

Re: Controling style of elements in Injection Points

2013-12-10 Thread Daniel Freedman
I've updated your pen with the other minor syntax changes that have occured in Chrome Canary: @host - :host template.content.cloneNode(true) - document.importNode(template.content) ::content p {} will always win over ::content {}, so I moved the black color to the style for p { }

Re: Controling style of elements in Injection Points

2013-12-10 Thread Daniel Freedman
And here's yet another version that should be usable in Stable Chrome and Canary: http://codepen.io/anon/pen/ybEch On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Freedman dfre...@google.com wrote: I've updated your pen with the other minor syntax changes that have occured in Chrome Canary: @host -

Re: Controling style of elements in Injection Points

2013-12-10 Thread Enrique Moreno Tent
Absolutely brilliant, Daniel! This is very explanatory :) I think I will write a blog post about this. Thank you very much for your answer! On 11 December 2013 00:11, Daniel Freedman dfre...@google.com wrote: And here's yet another version that should be usable in Stable Chrome and Canary:

Re: Styling form control elements

2013-12-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Domenic Denicola dome...@domenicdenicola.com wrote: I'm not sure I understand this. If you want the ::control to render the same way no matter if the select is open or not, then why do you need to test for that state? Right, what I meant was: normally, when

Re: Styling form control elements

2013-12-10 Thread Charles Pritchard
On Dec 6, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Scott González scott.gonza...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Brian Di Palma off...@gmail.com wrote: If UA controls are not styleable in the manner I wish them to be and I have access to custom elements + shadow DOM, I think I would just create my

Re: Styling form control elements

2013-12-10 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 12/10/13 6:30 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote: I would also think that you need properties to position the ::popout. Oh, yes. The extra fun here is: 1) Should the popout be able to paint outside the browser window? Right now, comboboxes (select size=1) can but normal CSS boxes cannot. 2) The

[manifest] HTTP-based solution for loading manifests

2013-12-10 Thread Marcos Caceres
Would any potential implementer consider supporting a HTTP based solution to loading manifests? The rationale being: For manifests it is much more commonly going to be the case that there's existing content that people want to add a manifest to. Doing that by editing each and every HTML file

Re: Styling form control elements

2013-12-10 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: On 12/10/13 6:30 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote: I would also think that you need properties to position the ::popout. Oh, yes. The extra fun here is: 1) Should the popout be able to paint outside the browser window? Right

Re: New manifest spec - ready for FPWD?

2013-12-10 Thread Marcos Caceres
Hi Rob, On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Rob Manson wrote: That's a great overview! There's 2 points I think haven't fully been addressed. 1. Section 8. Navigation Much of this work (and HTML5 in general) is about bringing the Web Platform up to being equal with native

Re: New manifest spec - ready for FPWD?

2013-12-10 Thread Marcos Caceres
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Mounir Lamouri wrote: On Wed, Nov 27, 2013, at 8:02, Marcos Caceres wrote: Over the last few weeks, a few of us folks in the Web Mob IG have been investigating the use cases and requirements for bookmarking web apps to home screen. The output