Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Eneko Lacunza]

Hi Harald,

Thanks for your feedback.

El 07/02/18 a las 15:32, Harald Leithner escribió:
we have the same problem with Debian 9 VMs, Debian 8 VMs migration is 
fine.


After testing with only 1 core, as you suggested, migration works good.
We also upgraded to the latest Debian Kernel, I think it's 4.14.7, 
with this version it seams to migrate stable between amd Opteron and 
Intel Broadwell.
I just upgraded to latest kernel in stretch-backports, 4.14.13-1~bpo9+1, 
and it has crashed again; so doesn't seem to have fixed our problem. I 
tried twice just in case; near instant crashes both times ;)


We have seen the problem also with Ubuntu 14.04 kernel 3.16.0-30-generic...

Cheers
Eneko


bye

Harald

Am 07.02.2018 um 09:33 schrieb Eneko Lacunza:


https://bugzilla.proxmox.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1660

El 07/02/18 a las 09:22, Eneko Lacunza escribió:

Hi,

I finally reproduced the problem with a Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS VM, so 
not a Debian 9-only problem.


Is there anything I to report this bug to Proxmox/upstream?

El 06/02/18 a las 12:07, Eneko Lacunza escribió:

Hi all,

El 02/02/18 a las 13:21, Eneko Lacunza escribió:


Eneko Lacunza  hat am 2. Februar 2018 um 
10:14 geschrieben:

proxmox-ve: 5.1-35 (running kernel: 4.13.13-4-pve)
This kernel produced a lot of crashes (especially on windows), 
even without any migrations.


Please retest with latest kernel.

Just updated the cluster:
# pveversion -v
proxmox-ve: 5.1-38 (running kernel: 4.13.13-5-pve)

[...]
The reported VM has migrated well for now, but I have seen a 
similar crash with another two Debian 9 VMs this time. Other VMs 
and SO/distros continue to work well, maybe there's a problem in 
guest kernel. I continue to get crashes after Intel<>AMD 
migrations, Intel<->Intel migrations work without issue (done 
ten's of them during cluster upgrade).


Seems that only Debian 9 VMs with more than 1 cores are affected by 
this problem. All 3 VMs had 2 or 4 cores. I changed the original 
reported VM to 1 core, and seems not to crash now. NUMA is not 
enabled.


I tried with previous Debian kernel (VMs are running now 
4.9.0-5-amd64, previous is 4.9.0-4-amd64); and it crashes too.


I tried with a Ubuntu 14.04.02 LTS with 2 cores, but I'm unable to 
reproduce the problem. Windows VMs also really seem unaffected.


Shall I report this to Debian kernel team?

Thanks a lot
Eneko









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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Eneko Lacunza]

Hi all,

El 02/02/18 a las 13:21, Eneko Lacunza escribió:


Eneko Lacunza  hat am 2. Februar 2018 um 10:14 
geschrieben:

proxmox-ve: 5.1-35 (running kernel: 4.13.13-4-pve)
This kernel produced a lot of crashes (especially on windows), even 
without any migrations.


Please retest with latest kernel.

Just updated the cluster:
# pveversion -v
proxmox-ve: 5.1-38 (running kernel: 4.13.13-5-pve)

[...]
The reported VM has migrated well for now, but I have seen a similar 
crash with another two Debian 9 VMs this time. Other VMs and 
SO/distros continue to work well, maybe there's a problem in guest 
kernel. I continue to get crashes after Intel<>AMD migrations, 
Intel<->Intel migrations work without issue (done ten's of them during 
cluster upgrade).


Seems that only Debian 9 VMs with more than 1 cores are affected by this 
problem. All 3 VMs had 2 or 4 cores. I changed the original reported VM 
to 1 core, and seems not to crash now. NUMA is not enabled.


I tried with previous Debian kernel (VMs are running now 4.9.0-5-amd64, 
previous is 4.9.0-4-amd64); and it crashes too.


I tried with a Ubuntu 14.04.02 LTS with 2 cores, but I'm unable to 
reproduce the problem. Windows VMs also really seem unaffected.


Shall I report this to Debian kernel team?

Thanks a lot
Eneko

--
Zuzendari Teknikoa / Director Técnico
Binovo IT Human Project, S.L.
Telf. 943569206
Astigarraga bidea 2, 2º izq. oficina 11; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa)
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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Eneko Lacunza]

El 02/02/18 a las 13:23, Martin Maurer escribió:

Hello,

On 02.02.2018 12:42, Eneko Lacunza wrote:
Don't know what you consider "quite old", but our servers were last 
updated on 15th january 2018. I really thought that we were on 
bleeding edge versions... :-)


Sorry, I misread your version, my fault. You are just one kernel build 
behind, so please ignore my post from before.



Ok, no problem, at least this explains the oldness differences ;)

Thanks!

--
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Binovo IT Human Project, S.L.
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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Gilberto Nunes]

Try to use different SCSI Controller or other NIC controller different then
virtio...
Perhaps this can help

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2018-02-02 10:21 GMT-02:00 Eneko Lacunza :

> Hi,
>
> El 02/02/18 a las 12:14, Martin Maurer escribió:
>
>>
>> Eneko Lacunza  hat am 2. Februar 2018 um 10:14
>>> geschrieben:
>>> proxmox-ve: 5.1-35 (running kernel: 4.13.13-4-pve)
>>>
>> This kernel produced a lot of crashes (especially on windows), even
>> without any migrations.
>>
>> Please retest with latest kernel.
>>
> Just updated the cluster:
> # pveversion -v
> proxmox-ve: 5.1-38 (running kernel: 4.13.13-5-pve)
> pve-manager: 5.1-43 (running version: 5.1-43/bdb08029)
> pve-kernel-4.4.83-1-pve: 4.4.83-96
> pve-kernel-4.13.4-1-pve: 4.13.4-26
> pve-kernel-4.4.76-1-pve: 4.4.76-94
> pve-kernel-4.13.13-4-pve: 4.13.13-35
> pve-kernel-4.13.13-5-pve: 4.13.13-38
> pve-kernel-4.4.67-1-pve: 4.4.67-92
> libpve-http-server-perl: 2.0-8
> lvm2: 2.02.168-pve6
> corosync: 2.4.2-pve3
> libqb0: 1.0.1-1
> pve-cluster: 5.0-19
> qemu-server: 5.0-20
> pve-firmware: 2.0-3
> libpve-common-perl: 5.0-25
> libpve-guest-common-perl: 2.0-14
> libpve-access-control: 5.0-7
> libpve-storage-perl: 5.0-17
> pve-libspice-server1: 0.12.8-3
> vncterm: 1.5-3
> pve-docs: 5.1-16
> pve-qemu-kvm: 2.9.1-6
> pve-container: 2.0-18
> pve-firewall: 3.0-5
> pve-ha-manager: 2.0-4
> ksm-control-daemon: 1.2-2
> glusterfs-client: 3.8.8-1
> lxc-pve: 2.1.1-2
> lxcfs: 2.0.8-1
> criu: 2.11.1-1~bpo90
> novnc-pve: 0.6-4
> smartmontools: 6.5+svn4324-1
> zfsutils-linux: 0.7.4-pve2~bpo9
> ceph: 12.2.2-1~bpo90+1
>
> The reported VM has migrated well for now, but I have seen a similar crash
> with another two Debian 9 VMs this time. Other VMs and SO/distros continue
> to work well, maybe there's a problem in guest kernel. I continue to get
> crashes after Intel<>AMD migrations, Intel<->Intel migrations work without
> issue (done ten's of them during cluster upgrade).
>
> I'll continue to test next week and will report back.
>
> Thanks a lot
> Eneko
>
> --
> Zuzendari Teknikoa / Director Técnico
> Binovo IT Human Project, S.L.
> Telf. 943569206
> Astigarraga bidea 2, 2º izq. oficina 11; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa)
> www.binovo.es
>
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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Martin Maurer]

Hello,

On 02.02.2018 12:42, Eneko Lacunza wrote:
Don't know what you consider "quite old", but our servers were last 
updated on 15th january 2018. I really thought that we were on bleeding 
edge versions... :-)


Sorry, I misread your version, my fault. You are just one kernel build 
behind, so please ignore my post from before.


--
Best Regards,

Martin Maurer

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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[dorsy]

I can only quote the guy who maintains the stable Linux kernel releases:
"Conclusion

Again, update your kernels, don’t delay, and don’t stop. The updates to 
resolve these problems will be continuing to come for a long period of 
time. Also, there are still lots of other bugs and security issues being 
resolved in the stable and LTS kernel releases that are totally 
independent of these types of issues, so keeping up to date is always a 
good idea.


Right now, there are a lot of very overworked, grumpy, sleepless, and 
just generally pissed off kernel developers working as hard as they can 
to resolve these issues that they themselves did not cause at all. 
Please be considerate of their situation right now. They need all the 
love and support and free supply of their favorite beverage that we can 
provide them to ensure that we all end up with fixed systems as soon as 
possible."


source: http://kroah.com/log/blog/2018/01/06/meltdown-status/

On 2018-02-02 13:10, Uwe Sauter wrote:

Am 02.02.2018 um 13:02 schrieb Eneko Lacunza:

Hi,

El 02/02/18 a las 12:59, Uwe Sauter escribió:

This is a very important message for all users of Proxmox. Is there any
announcement on the lists for it?

This kernel is already quite old and you should install always latest packages 
anyway. So no, there is no extra information
besides the well known sources about each single bugfix.

Don't know what you consider "quite old", but our servers were last updated on 
15th january 2018. I really thought that we were on
bleeding edge versions... :-)

Also, it doesn't seem reasonable to think that users will be checking dayly? 
for kernel updates and installing them *and
rebooting* the server... :)

For checking, that's where monitoring software is for… I have Nagios checks 
that keep me informed if there are any new packages
available.

Regarding reboots: well, that's why you run a cluster so you are able to reboot 
hosts without interuption of the serivces provided
by VMs…

Sure, but some user's don't have shared storage, or have just one server.

Also, you just always install de latest available versions inmediately, so 
that... you get also the broken versions like this
kernel? Very good for maintaining services provided by VMs... ;)

Cheers



I never said that I install everything the second it is available, just that 
Nagios keeps me informed.

And then again either you use the community repository and get the latest and 
greatest or you pay for the enterprise repo where
things might be more stable… But especially in troubled times like this January 
I don't see a point to wait… but that's just my 2
cents.

And I didn't have trouble with any kernel update so far since I started using 
Proxmox early last year.

Regards,

Uwe
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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Eneko Lacunza]

Hi,

El 02/02/18 a las 12:59, Uwe Sauter escribió:



This is a very important message for all users of Proxmox. Is there any
announcement on the lists for it?

This kernel is already quite old and you should install always latest packages 
anyway. So no, there is no extra information
besides the well known sources about each single bugfix.

Don't know what you consider "quite old", but our servers were last updated on 
15th january 2018. I really thought that we were on
bleeding edge versions... :-)

Also, it doesn't seem reasonable to think that users will be checking dayly? 
for kernel updates and installing them *and
rebooting* the server... :)

For checking, that's where monitoring software is for… I have Nagios checks 
that keep me informed if there are any new packages
available.

Regarding reboots: well, that's why you run a cluster so you are able to reboot 
hosts without interuption of the serivces provided
by VMs…

Sure, but some user's don't have shared storage, or have just one server.

Also, you just always install de latest available versions inmediately, 
so that... you get also the broken versions like this kernel? Very good 
for maintaining services provided by VMs... ;)


Cheers

--
Zuzendari Teknikoa / Director Técnico
Binovo IT Human Project, S.L.
Telf. 943569206
Astigarraga bidea 2, 2º izq. oficina 11; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa)
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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Martin Maurer]

Hello,

> Kai Zimmer  hat am 2. Februar 2018 um 12:26 geschrieben:
> This is a very important message for all users of Proxmox. Is there any 
> announcement on the lists for it?

This kernel is already quite old and you should install always latest packages 
anyway. So no, there is no extra information besides the well known sources 
about each single bugfix.

Martin

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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Eneko Lacunza]

El 02/02/18 a las 12:14, Martin Maurer escribió:
Eneko Lacunza  hat am 2. Februar 2018 um 10:14 
geschrieben:

proxmox-ve: 5.1-35 (running kernel: 4.13.13-4-pve)

This kernel produced a lot of crashes (especially on windows), even without any 
migrations.

Please retest with latest kernel.

Thanks for the hint, will update and report back.

Cheers

--
Zuzendari Teknikoa / Director Técnico
Binovo IT Human Project, S.L.
Telf. 943569206
Astigarraga bidea 2, 2º izq. oficina 11; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa)
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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Martin Maurer]

Hello,

> Eneko Lacunza  hat am 2. Februar 2018 um 10:14 
> geschrieben:
> proxmox-ve: 5.1-35 (running kernel: 4.13.13-4-pve)

This kernel produced a lot of crashes (especially on windows), even without any 
migrations.

Please retest with latest kernel.

Martin

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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Eneko Lacunza]

Suposedly kvm64 CPU model is just for this (abstracting from CPU 
model/brand). :-)


El 02/02/18 a las 11:53, Gilberto Nunes escribió:

Hi

Well My best shot, is about the CPU your try to use in your vm... I am
not kernel expert not linux expert either, but in 3 of screenshot that you
sent, there's kvm_kick_cup appears...
Perhaps you can try change the kernel inside the VM, using a LiveCD for
that, or even change the CPU model to host or other AMD CPU...
Again, it is just a shot in the dark!

Good luck!
Cheers

---
Gilberto Nunes Ferreira

(47) 3025-5907
(47) 99676-7530 - Whatsapp / Telegram

Skype: gilberto.nunes36




2018-02-02 8:16 GMT-02:00 Eneko Lacunza :


Hi,

I have some screenshots, they aren't complete as console shows about 4
crashes in a few seconds:

ftp://ftp.binovo.es/elacunza/migration-crash/Captura%20de%20
pantalla%20de%202018-02-02%2009-33-24.png
ftp://ftp.binovo.es/elacunza/migration-crash/Captura%20de%20
pantalla%20de%202018-02-02%2009-56-29.png
ftp://ftp.binovo.es/elacunza/migration-crash/Captura%20de%20
pantalla%20de%202018-02-02%2009-57-05.png
ftp://ftp.binovo.es/elacunza/migration-crash/Captura%20de%20
pantalla%20de%202018-02-02%2009-57-27.png

Crashed don't get logged to syslog/debug/dmesg

Cheers

El 02/02/18 a las 10:42, Gilberto Nunes escribió:

Hi

I think that would be nice if you could send us kernel panic message or
even the dmesg output.
Do you have any modules that was compiled but hand in this system?


Em sex, 2 de fev de 2018 07:14, Eneko Lacunza 
escreveu:

Hi all,

We have replaced an old node in our office Proxmox 5.1 cluster, with a
Ryzen 7 1700 machine with 64GB non-ECC RAM, just moving the disks from
the old Intel server to the new AMD machine. So far so good, everything
booted OK, Ceph OSD started OK after adjusting network, replacement went
really nice.

But we have found _one_ Debian 9 VM that kernel panics shortly after
migrating to/from Intel nodes from/to AMD node. Sometimes it is a matter
of seconds, sometimes it needs some minutes or even rarely one or two
hours.

The strange thing is that we have done that king of migration with other
VMs (serveral Windows VMs with different versions, another CentOS VM,
Debian 8 VM) and works perfectly.

If we restart this problematic VM after the migration+crash, it works
flawlessly (no more crashes until migration to another CPU maker).
Migration between Intel CPUs (with ECC memory) works OK too. We don't
have a second AMD machine to test migration between AMD nodes.

VM has 1 socket/2 cores type kvm64, 3GB of RAM, Standard VGA, cdrom at
IDE2, scsi-virtio, scsi0 8G on ceph-rbd, scsi1 50GB on ceph-rbd, network
virtio, OS type Linux 4.x, Hotplug Disk, Network, USB, ACPI support yes,
BIOS SeaBIOS, KVM hwd virt yes, qemu agent no. We have tried with
virtio-block too.

# pveversion -v
proxmox-ve: 5.1-35 (running kernel: 4.13.13-4-pve)
pve-manager: 5.1-42 (running version: 5.1-42/724a6cb3)
pve-kernel-4.4.83-1-pve: 4.4.83-96
pve-kernel-4.13.4-1-pve: 4.13.4-26
pve-kernel-4.4.76-1-pve: 4.4.76-94
pve-kernel-4.13.13-4-pve: 4.13.13-35
pve-kernel-4.4.67-1-pve: 4.4.67-92
libpve-http-server-perl: 2.0-8
lvm2: 2.02.168-pve6
corosync: 2.4.2-pve3
libqb0: 1.0.1-1
pve-cluster: 5.0-19
qemu-server: 5.0-19
pve-firmware: 2.0-3
libpve-common-perl: 5.0-25
libpve-guest-common-perl: 2.0-14
libpve-access-control: 5.0-7
libpve-storage-perl: 5.0-17
pve-libspice-server1: 0.12.8-3
vncterm: 1.5-3
pve-docs: 5.1-16
pve-qemu-kvm: 2.9.1-5
pve-container: 2.0-18
pve-firewall: 3.0-5
pve-ha-manager: 2.0-4
ksm-control-daemon: 1.2-2
glusterfs-client: 3.8.8-1
lxc-pve: 2.1.1-2
lxcfs: 2.0.8-1
criu: 2.11.1-1~bpo90
novnc-pve: 0.6-4
smartmontools: 6.5+svn4324-1
zfsutils-linux: 0.7.3-pve1~bpo9
ceph: 12.2.2-1~bpo90+1

Any ideas? This is a production VM but it isn't critical, we can play
with it. We can also live with the problem, but I think it could be of
interest to try to debug the problem.

Thanks a lot
Eneko

--
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Binovo IT Human Project, S.L.
Telf. 943569206
Astigarraga bidea 2, 2º izq. oficina 11; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa)
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Astigarraga bidea 2, 2º izq. oficina 11; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa)
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Re: [PVE-User] PVE 5.1 - Intel <-> AMD migration crash with Debian 9

[Gilberto Nunes]

Hi

Well My best shot, is about the CPU your try to use in your vm... I am
not kernel expert not linux expert either, but in 3 of screenshot that you
sent, there's kvm_kick_cup appears...
Perhaps you can try change the kernel inside the VM, using a LiveCD for
that, or even change the CPU model to host or other AMD CPU...
Again, it is just a shot in the dark!

Good luck!
Cheers

---
Gilberto Nunes Ferreira

(47) 3025-5907
(47) 99676-7530 - Whatsapp / Telegram

Skype: gilberto.nunes36




2018-02-02 8:16 GMT-02:00 Eneko Lacunza :

> Hi,
>
> I have some screenshots, they aren't complete as console shows about 4
> crashes in a few seconds:
>
> ftp://ftp.binovo.es/elacunza/migration-crash/Captura%20de%20
> pantalla%20de%202018-02-02%2009-33-24.png
> ftp://ftp.binovo.es/elacunza/migration-crash/Captura%20de%20
> pantalla%20de%202018-02-02%2009-56-29.png
> ftp://ftp.binovo.es/elacunza/migration-crash/Captura%20de%20
> pantalla%20de%202018-02-02%2009-57-05.png
> ftp://ftp.binovo.es/elacunza/migration-crash/Captura%20de%20
> pantalla%20de%202018-02-02%2009-57-27.png
>
> Crashed don't get logged to syslog/debug/dmesg
>
> Cheers
>
> El 02/02/18 a las 10:42, Gilberto Nunes escribió:
>
> Hi
>> I think that would be nice if you could send us kernel panic message or
>> even the dmesg output.
>> Do you have any modules that was compiled but hand in this system?
>>
>>
>> Em sex, 2 de fev de 2018 07:14, Eneko Lacunza 
>> escreveu:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We have replaced an old node in our office Proxmox 5.1 cluster, with a
>>> Ryzen 7 1700 machine with 64GB non-ECC RAM, just moving the disks from
>>> the old Intel server to the new AMD machine. So far so good, everything
>>> booted OK, Ceph OSD started OK after adjusting network, replacement went
>>> really nice.
>>>
>>> But we have found _one_ Debian 9 VM that kernel panics shortly after
>>> migrating to/from Intel nodes from/to AMD node. Sometimes it is a matter
>>> of seconds, sometimes it needs some minutes or even rarely one or two
>>> hours.
>>>
>>> The strange thing is that we have done that king of migration with other
>>> VMs (serveral Windows VMs with different versions, another CentOS VM,
>>> Debian 8 VM) and works perfectly.
>>>
>>> If we restart this problematic VM after the migration+crash, it works
>>> flawlessly (no more crashes until migration to another CPU maker).
>>> Migration between Intel CPUs (with ECC memory) works OK too. We don't
>>> have a second AMD machine to test migration between AMD nodes.
>>>
>>> VM has 1 socket/2 cores type kvm64, 3GB of RAM, Standard VGA, cdrom at
>>> IDE2, scsi-virtio, scsi0 8G on ceph-rbd, scsi1 50GB on ceph-rbd, network
>>> virtio, OS type Linux 4.x, Hotplug Disk, Network, USB, ACPI support yes,
>>> BIOS SeaBIOS, KVM hwd virt yes, qemu agent no. We have tried with
>>> virtio-block too.
>>>
>>> # pveversion -v
>>> proxmox-ve: 5.1-35 (running kernel: 4.13.13-4-pve)
>>> pve-manager: 5.1-42 (running version: 5.1-42/724a6cb3)
>>> pve-kernel-4.4.83-1-pve: 4.4.83-96
>>> pve-kernel-4.13.4-1-pve: 4.13.4-26
>>> pve-kernel-4.4.76-1-pve: 4.4.76-94
>>> pve-kernel-4.13.13-4-pve: 4.13.13-35
>>> pve-kernel-4.4.67-1-pve: 4.4.67-92
>>> libpve-http-server-perl: 2.0-8
>>> lvm2: 2.02.168-pve6
>>> corosync: 2.4.2-pve3
>>> libqb0: 1.0.1-1
>>> pve-cluster: 5.0-19
>>> qemu-server: 5.0-19
>>> pve-firmware: 2.0-3
>>> libpve-common-perl: 5.0-25
>>> libpve-guest-common-perl: 2.0-14
>>> libpve-access-control: 5.0-7
>>> libpve-storage-perl: 5.0-17
>>> pve-libspice-server1: 0.12.8-3
>>> vncterm: 1.5-3
>>> pve-docs: 5.1-16
>>> pve-qemu-kvm: 2.9.1-5
>>> pve-container: 2.0-18
>>> pve-firewall: 3.0-5
>>> pve-ha-manager: 2.0-4
>>> ksm-control-daemon: 1.2-2
>>> glusterfs-client: 3.8.8-1
>>> lxc-pve: 2.1.1-2
>>> lxcfs: 2.0.8-1
>>> criu: 2.11.1-1~bpo90
>>> novnc-pve: 0.6-4
>>> smartmontools: 6.5+svn4324-1
>>> zfsutils-linux: 0.7.3-pve1~bpo9
>>> ceph: 12.2.2-1~bpo90+1
>>>
>>> Any ideas? This is a production VM but it isn't critical, we can play
>>> with it. We can also live with the problem, but I think it could be of
>>> interest to try to debug the problem.
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot
>>> Eneko
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zuzendari Teknikoa / Director Técnico
>>> Binovo IT Human Project, S.L.
>>> Telf. 943569206
>>> Astigarraga bidea 2, 2º izq. oficina 11; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa)
>>> www.binovo.es
>>>
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>>> https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
>>>
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>
>
> --
> Zuzendari Teknikoa / Director Técnico
> Binovo IT Human Project, S.L.
> Telf. 943569206
> Astigarraga bidea 2, 2º izq. oficina 11; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa)
> www.binovo.es
>
> ___
> pve-user mailing list
> pve-user@pve.proxmox.com
>