Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On Sep 25, 2018, at 18:57, Victor Stinner wrote: > > IMHO It's time to discuss again modifying the "python" program to always > point to the latest Python version. This just came up again on linux-sig, but... > What is the status of Brett's UNIX Python launcher "py" by the way? ...I forgot to

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

Serhiy: > And changing the major version number itself is significant breaking change. From the name of the executable (python3 vs python4) hardcoded in Python IMHO It's time to discuss again modifying the "python" program to always point to the latest Python version. What is the status of Brett'

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

> On Sep 25, 2018, at 6:39 PM, Yury Selivanov wrote: > > I think we all have seen code like that; it's a common pattern. So by > just bumping the version to 4.0 you would break the compatibility for > some libraries and frameworks. And maybe breaking it is fine if > there's a very strong tech

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 6:33 PM Victor Stinner wrote: > > Hi, > > I would prefer to never ever break the backward compatibility in Python. To > make it clear I suggest to use 4.0 for the release following Python 3.7. I think Serhiy made a strong argument that the code like below would break if w

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

Hi, I would prefer to never ever break the backward compatibility in Python. To make it clear I suggest to use 4.0 for the release following Python 3.7. More and more data confirm me frequently that we already reached the critical mass to declare that the migration to Python 3 is done. There was

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

2018-09-25 16:30 GMT-03:00 Yury Selivanov : > deprecating APIs or behavior. Right now I'm saying "Python 4.0" > implying that 4.0 will be released right after 3.9. > > I've heard multiple opinions on this subject. One of them is that we > should release 4.0 when we have a major new change, like r

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 5:18 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 12:30 Yury Selivanov wrote: >> >> The reason I'm asking this is because I frequently need to refer to >> *that version* of Python in the documentation, especially when I'm >> deprecating APIs or behavior. Right now

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 12:30 Yury Selivanov wrote: > The reason I'm asking this is because I frequently need to refer to > *that version* of Python in the documentation, especially when I'm > deprecating APIs or behavior. Right now I'm saying "Python 4.0" > implying that 4.0 will be released righ

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 2:38 PM Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 25.09.18 22:40, Barry Warsaw пише: > > On Sep 25, 2018, at 15:31, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> So my preference would be on 3.10. > > 3.9 + 0.1 :) > > > > Renaming it to Python 4 is fraught with knock-on effects, so I think we > do reserve

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 4:38 PM Serhiy Storchaka wrote: [..] > And changing the major version number itself is significant breaking > change. From the name of the executable (python3 vs python4) hardcoded > in Python and shell scripts to a number of third-party scripts that > contain in the best c

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

25.09.18 22:40, Barry Warsaw пише: On Sep 25, 2018, at 15:31, Antoine Pitrou wrote: So my preference would be on 3.10. 3.9 + 0.1 :) Renaming it to Python 4 is fraught with knock-on effects, so I think we do reserve that for major changes. I doubt we’ll ever need for a disruptive backward i

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 1:30 PM Yury Selivanov wrote: > What's the current plan for what version of Python we release after 3.9? One idea I've heard is to switch to calendar versioning after 3.9. So we'd start with something like "2021" (year) or "2021.06" (year + month). sys.version_info would

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 20:32, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > Le 25/09/2018 à 21:30, Yury Selivanov a écrit : > > What's the current plan for what version of Python we release after 3.9? > > > > The reason I'm asking this is because I frequently need to refer to > > *that version* of Python in the doc

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On Sep 25, 2018, at 15:31, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > So my preference would be on 3.10. 3.9 + 0.1 :) Renaming it to Python 4 is fraught with knock-on effects, so I think we do reserve that for major changes. I doubt we’ll ever need for a disruptive backward incompatible change *at the Python

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

On 25.09.2018 21:30, Yury Selivanov wrote: > What's the current plan for what version of Python we release after 3.9? > > The reason I'm asking this is because I frequently need to refer to > *that version* of Python in the documentation, especially when I'm > deprecating APIs or behavior. Right

Re: [python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

Le 25/09/2018 à 21:30, Yury Selivanov a écrit : > What's the current plan for what version of Python we release after 3.9? > > The reason I'm asking this is because I frequently need to refer to > *that version* of Python in the documentation, especially when I'm > deprecating APIs or behavior.

[python-committers] Python 4.0 or Python 3.10?

What's the current plan for what version of Python we release after 3.9? The reason I'm asking this is because I frequently need to refer to *that version* of Python in the documentation, especially when I'm deprecating APIs or behavior. Right now I'm saying "Python 4.0" implying that 4.0 will be

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

On Sep 25, 2018, at 14:40, Brett Cannon wrote: > For me personally, I am not going to participate in any discussion about any > PEP until there is a published text to refer to, otherwise the discussion is > ripe for misunderstandings. If a PEP comes out which people disagree with and > want an

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 09:18, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 25.09.2018 16:28, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: > > My proposal is taking into consideration The PSF's mission and diversity > > statement. I will not remove the diversity clause from PEP 8011. > > I cannot comment on what you actually have in PEP

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

> On Sep 25, 2018, at 12:24 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > Le 25/09/2018 à 18:10, Guido van Rossum a écrit : >>To save us all trouble of discussing this particular issue, for >>those of you who disagree completely, and have other ideas about how >>you'd like Python to be governed

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

Le 25/09/2018 à 18:10, Guido van Rossum a écrit : > To save us all trouble of discussing this particular issue, for > those of you who disagree completely, and have other ideas about how > you'd like Python to be governed and who should be in it, you can do > one or more of the fol

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

On 25.09.2018 16:28, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: > My proposal is taking into consideration The PSF's mission and diversity > statement. I will not remove the diversity clause from PEP 8011. I cannot comment on what you actually have in PEP 8011 as diversity clause, since the page is just a placeholder

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:28 AM Mariatta Wijaya wrote: > My proposal is taking into consideration The PSF's mission and diversity > statement. I will not remove the diversity clause from PEP 8011. > +1 > To save us all trouble of discussing this particular issue, for those of > you who disagre

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

Le 25/09/2018 à 17:49, Victor Stinner a écrit : > Le mar. 25 sept. 2018 à 13:57, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : >> Not sure what you mean here. What you are asking for is routinely >> called, AFAIK, "positive discrimination". Please correct me if I'm wrong. >> >> You ask me to assume positive intent,

Re: [python-committers] 1 week to Oct 1

Le 25/09/2018 à 17:54, Guido van Rossum a écrit : > On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:11 AM Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > > I would suggest November 1st, so that nobody feels pressured. > > > You realize that then exactly the same will happen around that date, right? Not re

Re: [python-committers] 1 week to Oct 1

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:11 AM Antoine Pitrou wrote: > I would suggest November 1st, so that nobody feels pressured. > You realize that then exactly the same will happen around that date, right? Have you ever been on the organizing side of a conference? Both paper/talk submissions and attendee

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

Le mar. 25 sept. 2018 à 13:57, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : > Not sure what you mean here. What you are asking for is routinely > called, AFAIK, "positive discrimination". Please correct me if I'm wrong. > > You ask me to assume positive intent, but you are the one assuming > negative intent on my p

[python-committers] [PEP 8013] The External Council Governance Model

Here is the text of PEP 8013 for discussion and improvement (in isolation from the other proposals, of course -- we're not ready for the shoot-out yet.) I'm keen to see the model be considered, but I don't feel the need to tightly control the specific content in the PEP, so feel free to send

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 15:28, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: > > My proposal is taking into consideration The PSF's mission and diversity > statement. I will not remove the diversity clause from PEP 8011. > > To save us all trouble of discussing this particular issue, for those of you > who disagree com

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

My proposal is taking into consideration The PSF's mission and diversity statement. I will not remove the diversity clause from PEP 8011. To save us all trouble of discussing this particular issue, for those of you who disagree completely, and have other ideas about how you'd like Python to be gov

Re: [python-committers] 1 week to Oct 1

Le 25/09/2018 à 16:07, Barry Warsaw a écrit : > On Sep 24, 2018, at 14:32, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: >> >> 1. Is everyone still ok with the Oct 1 as deadline for coming up with >> governance PEPs? > > I’m afraid that I may not be, actually. I expected to have time to work on > my PEP while I wa

Re: [python-committers] 1 week to Oct 1

On Sep 24, 2018, at 14:32, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: > > 1. Is everyone still ok with the Oct 1 as deadline for coming up with > governance PEPs? I’m afraid that I may not be, actually. I expected to have time to work on my PEP while I was on leave for my son’s wedding, but y’know, family! :) M

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 1:52 PM Mariatta Wijaya wrote: > > > * Mariatta proposed to require to have a least one woman in that > > council. > > > Why stop at women? > > > My actual wording was: "not all white men", which actually means quite > different from "must include one woman". > > I don't a

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

Le 25/09/2018 à 13:52, Mariatta Wijaya a écrit : > I don't appreciate you jumping straight to accusing me for > discrimination. Assume positive intent, and ask for clarity before > scrutinizing and making accusations. Not sure what you mean here. What you are asking for is routinely called, AFAI

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

> * Mariatta proposed to require to have a least one woman in that > council. > Why stop at women? My actual wording was: "not all white men", which actually means quite different from "must include one woman". I don't appreciate you jumping straight to accusing me for discrimination. Assume po

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

Hi, Le 25/09/2018 à 12:14, Victor Stinner a écrit : > > Since there are no concrete PEPs, I don't know where I should post my > comments. I decided to send them here :-) > > For the new council/board idea (group of 3 or 5 peoples): > > * Can we require that each people comes from a different c

Re: [python-committers] 1 week to Oct 1

Hi, Since there are no concrete PEPs, I don't know where I should post my comments. I decided to send them here :-) For the new council/board idea (group of 3 or 5 peoples): * Can we require that each people comes from a different company? At least, require that no all of them work for the same

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

On 21.09.2018 14:59, Paul Moore wrote: > Balance, forgiveness, and a mature level of empathy are what's > *really* needed ("among the things that are needed...":-)). Not > policies. Policies should be weapons of last resort. Agreed. I guess we'll also have to learn that flamebait as we had it in

Re: [python-committers] 1 week to Oct 1

I wanted to read these 4 PEPs: Le lun. 24 sept. 2018 à 20:32, Mariatta Wijaya a écrit : > - https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8001 Python Governance Voting Process > - https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8010 The BDFL Governance Model > - https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8011 The Council Gov