Thanks, Nick.
Your time and energy are appreciated.
--
~Ethan~
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On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 19:29:25 +0100, mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
>
> Quoting "R. David Murray" :
>
> > You should have the necessary privileges on the tracker now, since I
> > think you ought to. (I don't have them on the meta-tracker, so Martin
> > will need to handle that one.)
>
> I've restrict
On 11/30/2013 04:16 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
For python-ideas, if someone wants to allow Anatoly's posts through then I will
happily make them an admin of the list,
but I have to just admit I can't be trusted to do it objectively and I don't
want Anatoly to receive unjust treatment;
there's jus
On Nov 30, 2013, at 23:52 , Georg Brandl wrote:
> Am 01.12.2013 03:12, schrieb Nick Coghlan:
>> OK, I've sent the notification to Anatoly. I cc'ed Guido and Ezio
>> (since I included their offer to mediate tracker access) and also
>> bcc'ed the list admins for the three currently affected lists (
Quoting "R. David Murray" :
You should have the necessary privileges on the tracker now, since I
think you ought to. (I don't have them on the meta-tracker, so Martin
will need to handle that one.)
I've restricted anatoly's access there; I've also given you the
Admin role on that tracker.
R
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 18:11:47 +0100, mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
>
> Quoting "R. David Murray" :
>
> > On the other hand, I'm not actually sure what kind of access is left
> > when you remove all the roles from a user. I did notice the other day
> > that email to the tracker still seems to work for
Quoting "R. David Murray" :
On the other hand, I'm not actually sure what kind of access is left
when you remove all the roles from a user. I did notice the other day
that email to the tracker still seems to work for new issues (I think
it was a new issue, I don't remember the sequence of even
Quoting Ned Deily :
You can't fix people, but you can prevent them from actually being
harmful.
The thing is it's a technical solution to a social problem.
No, that's not true. The ban itself is a social reaction to a social
problem. The technical reaction is only to actually enforce the ba
On 1 December 2013 15:55, R. David Murray wrote:
> You should have the necessary privileges on the tracker now, since I
> think you ought to. (I don't have them on the meta-tracker, so Martin
> will need to handle that one.)
Thanks - I've now removed his User role access on the main tracker.
>
Am 01.12.2013 03:12, schrieb Nick Coghlan:
> On 1 December 2013 01:49, Eli Bendersky wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose:
>>>
>>> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
>>> python
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 12:12:08 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I don't appear to have the necessary tracker access to actually move
> his account to read-only status, though (this change should be made on
> the meta-tracker as well).
You should have the necessary privileges on the tracker now, since I
Nick,
Thanks for doing this emotionally grueling task.
--Guido
On Saturday, November 30, 2013, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 1 December 2013 01:49, Eli Bendersky >
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan
> > >
> wrote:
> >> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to
On 1 December 2013 01:49, Eli Bendersky wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose:
>>
>> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
>> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there an
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> >- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
> >python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
> >where his presence is considered disruptive?).
>
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On sam., 2013-11-30 at 11:10 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >
> > >- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
> > >python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there a
On sam., 2013-11-30 at 11:10 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> >- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
> >python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
> >where his presence is considered disruptive?).
>
On 1 Dec 2013 01:49, "Eli Bendersky" wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>
>> On 30 November 2013 15:23, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> > Nick,
>> >
>> > I think we've seen the issue from every possible side now. I trust your
>> > judgment that he has pulled this
On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
>python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
>where his presence is considered disruptive?).
Done, for techto...@gmail.com on all three lists.
-Barry
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 30 November 2013 15:23, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > Nick,
> >
> > I think we've seen the issue from every possible side now. I trust your
> > judgment that he has pulled this trick once too many times. So please
> > implement the ban. Or
These steps sound right to me. Make the notification a private email, not a
public one -- this doesn't have to be a big deal. It's not a warning shot
to other people, this is one isolated individual, and we should treat it as
such.
Alex
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:44 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On
On sam., 2013-11-30 at 08:58 +0200, Ezio Melotti wrote:
> I personally don't have problems talking with him, and, if we decided
> not to ban him, I'm available to spend more time talking with him and
> being a mediator.
And the end result is that the community spends time "mediating" with a
jerk i
On 30 November 2013 16:58, Ezio Melotti wrote:
> Hi,
> as I already mentioned in a message on a previous thread, I'm -1 on banning
> him.
> Last time this issue came up I contacted him and we discussed about
> these problems several times. For a while things got better and hhis
> behavior got a
On 30 November 2013 15:23, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Nick,
>
> I think we've seen the issue from every possible side now. I trust your
> judgment that he has pulled this trick once too many times. So please
> implement the ban. Or wait until the next infraction -- that's up to you.
> Either way, s
Hi,
as I already mentioned in a message on a previous thread, I'm -1 on banning him.
Last time this issue came up I contacted him and we discussed about
these problems several times. For a while things got better and hhis
behavior got a bit better and his posts less frequent, but lately he
got "ac
I concur that it is time to make a decision and move one. I will support
whatever we decide.
I want to apologize for not being clear in my earlier reply. FTR, a few
clarifications:
On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:25 , Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 30 November 2013 08:41, Ned Deily wrote:
>> It is a prob
On 11/29/2013 9:56 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On ven., 2013-11-29 at 20:01 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
I think an appropriate first signal would be to make it so he cannot
change headers.
I wasn't thinking only about the bug tracker, but also the MLs.
Right, you are worried about retaliation o
Nick,
I think we've seen the issue from every possible side now. I trust your
judgment that he has pulled this trick once too many times. So please
implement the ban. Or wait until the next infraction -- that's up to you.
Either way, since the archives of this list are public, our deliberations
wi
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:41:22 -0800, Ned Deily wrote:
>
> On Nov 29, 2013, at 13:51 , Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
> > On ven., 2013-11-29 at 13:16 -0800, Ned Deily wrote:
>
> >> Why is it that we find him so annoying, enough to advocate fairly
> >> drastic measures like banning? There have been an
On 11/29/2013 02:17 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
PS: Maybe we could set up some mailing list software that, every time
Anatoly starts a new thread, and periodically during it, it posts
an "Anatoly FAQ"?
Heh, there's a couple other names we could add to that list, too! ;)
--
~Ethan~
___
On 30 November 2013 08:41, Ned Deily wrote:
>
> On Nov 29, 2013, at 13:51 , Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
>> On ven., 2013-11-29 at 13:16 -0800, Ned Deily wrote:
>>> Right. We can't change other people's behavior. We can at best
>>> encourage change. In this case, I'm doubtful that banning would ser
On 30 November 2013 06:12, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> If someone turns away from the community because we decided we didn't want
>> someone who is rude participating and ruining the experience for others then
>> I'm fine with losing that person's participation just like anyone who
>> chooses not t
On ven., 2013-11-29 at 20:01 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
> >> I think an appropriate first signal would be to make it so he cannot
> >> change headers.
> >
> > I wasn't thinking only about the bug tracker, but also the MLs.
>
> Right, you are worried about retaliation on the MLs if he were *banned*
On 11/29/2013 7:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On ven., 2013-11-29 at 18:11 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 11/29/2013 2:59 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Then I don't know where his behaviour is most problematic: on the
tracker or the MLs?
If we only ban him from the tracker, I'm afraid he'll start mak
On 30.11.2013 01:14, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>
>> BTW: Rather than actually ban Anatoly from the various mailing lists,
>> I think setting his moderation flag would be a better approach. He'd
>> get a note that his emails are being held for moderati
On ven., 2013-11-29 at 18:11 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/29/2013 2:59 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
> > Then I don't know where his behaviour is most problematic: on the
> > tracker or the MLs?
> > If we only ban him from the tracker, I'm afraid he'll start making
> > "here's an issue I can't
On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>BTW: Rather than actually ban Anatoly from the various mailing lists,
>I think setting his moderation flag would be a better approach. He'd
>get a note that his emails are being held for moderation and the
>moderators could then screen the emails
On 11/29/2013 2:59 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Then I don't know where his behaviour is most problematic: on the
tracker or the MLs?
If we only ban him from the tracker, I'm afraid he'll start making
"here's an issue I can't post on the tracker because I'm banned" posts
on the mailing-list...
Per
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> Here's another idea. Ban him temporarily from the tracker and the
>> lists(*) and tell him that to be unbanned he has to talk to me, and to me
>> only. I will then negotiat
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Here's another idea. Ban him temporarily from the tracker and the lists(*)
> and tell him that to be unbanned he has to talk to me, and to me only. I
> will then negotiate a cool-off period and posting guidelines with him. If
> he violat
On 11/29/2013 10:04 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
I just want to make sure others know that Georg has warned Anatoly that
if he continues to re-open a specific issue he will lose his tracker
privileges (http://bugs.python.org/issue19822#msg204696). I stand behind
his warning and will support anyone who
On Nov 29, 2013, at 13:51 , Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On ven., 2013-11-29 at 13:16 -0800, Ned Deily wrote:
>> Right. We can't change other people's behavior. We can at best
>> encourage change. In this case, I'm doubtful that banning would serve
>> as an encouragement.
>
> Personally, I don't
On 29.11.2013 22:37, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
> [bunch of stuff I agree with :-)]
>
>> I think it would be hard to justify to the world banning Anatoly for his
>> relatively minor annoyances when it took so long to do something about one
>> help
On 11/29/2013 10:28 AM, Christian Heimes wrote:
Perhaps it's time to try a more technical approach and restrict
modifications of status, resolution, version and priority to core devs
or CLA signers. That could stop his rampage without further discussion.
+1
--
~Ethan~
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 13:16:32 -0800, Ned Deily wrote:
>
> On Nov 29, 2013, at 12:12 , Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > The question is, how effective will the alternative solution
> > (banning him) be? I worry that it's just going to make things worse.
>
> I think that is a legitimate concern and
On 11/29/2013 12:05 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Here's another idea. Ban him temporarily from the tracker and the lists(*) and
tell him that to be unbanned he has to
talk to me, and to me only. I will then negotiate a cool-off period and posting
guidelines with him. If he violate those
he will
On ven., 2013-11-29 at 13:16 -0800, Ned Deily wrote:
> Right. We can't change other people's behavior. We can at best
> encourage change. In this case, I'm doubtful that banning would serve
> as an encouragement.
Personally, I don't see it as an encouragement, rather a solution.
The "temporary"
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
[bunch of stuff I agree with :-)]
> I think it would be hard to justify to the world banning Anatoly for his
> relatively minor annoyances when it took so long to do something about one
> help vampire whose behavior and the community's reaction se
On Nov 29, 2013, at 12:12 , Guido van Rossum wrote:
> The question is, how effective will the alternative solution (banning him)
> be? I worry that it's just going to make things worse.
I think that is a legitimate concern and likely outcome.
> The key thing to understand here is that you can
On ven., 2013-11-29 at 21:07 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:
> Am 29.11.2013 21:05, schrieb Guido van Rossum:
> > Here's another idea. Ban him temporarily from the tracker and the
> > lists(*) and tell him that to be unbanned he has to talk to me, and
> > to me only. I will then negotiate a cool-of
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>>
>>> Am 29.11.2013 19:22, schrieb Tim Peters:
>>> > I pretty much ignore Anatoly, and that works really well for me
Am 29.11.2013 21:05, schrieb Guido van Rossum:
> Here's another idea. Ban him temporarily from the tracker and the
> lists(*) and tell him that to be unbanned he has to talk to me, and
> to me only. I will then negotiate a cool-off period and posting
> guidelines with him. If he violate those he w
Here's another idea. Ban him temporarily from the tracker and the lists(*)
and tell him that to be unbanned he has to talk to me, and to me only. I
will then negotiate a cool-off period and posting guidelines with him. If
he violate those he will automatically be banned permanently (or at least
for
On ven., 2013-11-29 at 11:40 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> If you can get a majority of the committers to vote to ban him we
> should do it -- but that's a high bar (many committers probably don't
> care enough to vote).
Well, many are probably inactive enough to not even notice this
discuss
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On ven., 2013-11-29 at 10:56 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Georg Brandl
> > wrote:
> > Am 29.11.2013 19:22, schrieb Tim Peters:
> > > I pretty much ignore Anatoly, and that works real
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>
>> Am 29.11.2013 19:22, schrieb Tim Peters:
>> > I pretty much ignore Anatoly, and that works really well for me - try
>> it ;-)
>>
>> It's a nice option, I agree -- but someone has
On ven., 2013-11-29 at 10:56 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Georg Brandl
> wrote:
> Am 29.11.2013 19:22, schrieb Tim Peters:
> > I pretty much ignore Anatoly, and that works really well for
> me - try it ;-)
>
>
>
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Brian Curtin wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Tim Peters wrote:
>
>> I pretty much ignore Anatoly, and that works really well for me - try it
>> ;-)
>
>
> I've filtered his emails to the trash for close to two years now so I'm
> only aware of him when
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Am 29.11.2013 19:22, schrieb Tim Peters:
> > I pretty much ignore Anatoly, and that works really well for me - try it
> ;-)
>
> It's a nice option, I agree -- but someone has to triage his issues, or
> they
> will rot in the tracker for eter
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Tim Peters wrote:
> I pretty much ignore Anatoly, and that works really well for me - try it
> ;-)
I've filtered his emails to the trash for close to two years now so I'm
only aware of him when issues like this come up. He doesn't get to come in
here and act ho
Am 29.11.2013 19:22, schrieb Tim Peters:
> I pretty much ignore Anatoly, and that works really well for me - try it ;-)
>
It's a nice option, I agree -- but someone has to triage his issues, or they
will rot in the tracker for eternity.
Georg
___
pyth
Am 29.11.2013 19:14, schrieb Guido van Rossum:
> Have you read the latest on the python-dev thread? Several other people are
> now
> also complaining. The only thing that makes sense to me is nothing -- banning
> Anatoly now is just going to cause a PR disaster.
There's no reason for banning - he
Am 29.11.2013 19:14, schrieb Guido van Rossum:
> Have you read the latest on the python-dev thread? Several other
> people are now also complaining. The only thing that makes sense to
> me is nothing -- banning Anatoly now is just going to cause a PR
> disaster. Not responding at all will most like
I pretty much ignore Anatoly, and that works really well for me - try it ;-)
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Have you read the latest on the python-dev thread? Several other people are
now also complaining. The only thing that makes sense to me is nothing --
banning Anatoly now is just going to cause a PR disaster. Not responding at
all will most likely cause it to blow over (surely they will collectively
Brett, +1 from me. But I suggest we wait for Guido to express his opinion
before taking any action. In a recent private correspondence with Christian
(and myself CCd) Guido expressed reluctance to act against Anatoly at this
time.
Eli
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> I ju
Am 29.11.2013 16:04, schrieb Brett Cannon:
> I just want to make sure others know that Georg has warned Anatoly
> that if he continues to re-open a specific issue he will lose his
> tracker privileges (http://bugs.python.org/issue19822#msg204696). I
> stand behind his warning and will support anyon
I just want to make sure others know that Georg has warned Anatoly that if
he continues to re-open a specific issue he will lose his tracker
privileges (http://bugs.python.org/issue19822#msg204696). I stand behind
his warning and will support anyone who enforces it. I would suggest that
if he does
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