Re: [Python-Dev] sgmllib Comments

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Sam Ruby wrote: If we can agree on the behavior, I would be glad to write up a patch. It seems to me that the simplest way to proceed would be for the code that attempts to resolve character references (both named and numeric) in attributes to be isolated in a single method. Subclasses that

Re: [Python-Dev] UUID module

2006-06-12 Thread Ka-Ping Yee
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Giovanni Bajo wrote: Some comments on the code: for dir in ['', r'c:\windows\system32', r'c:\winnt\system32']: Can we get rid of these absolute paths? Something like this should suffice: from ctypes import * buf = create_string_buffer(4096)

Re: [Python-Dev] UUID module

2006-06-12 Thread Ka-Ping Yee
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Phillip J. Eby wrote: At 07:24 PM 6/11/2006 -0500, Ka-Ping Yee wrote: I've added code to make uuid1() use uuid_generate_time() if available and uuid4() use uuid_generate_random() if available. These functions are provided on Mac OS X (in libc) and on Linux (in libuuid).

Re: [Python-Dev] UUID module

2006-06-12 Thread Giovanni Bajo
Ka-Ping Yee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for dir in ['', r'c:\windows\system32', r'c:\winnt\system32']: Can we get rid of these absolute paths? Something like this should suffice: from ctypes import * buf = create_string_buffer(4096) windll.kernel32.GetSystemDirectoryA(buf, 4096) 17

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.5 issues need resolving in a few days

2006-06-12 Thread engelbert . gruber
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Fredrik Lundh wrote: if all undocumented modules had as much documentation and articles as ET, the world would be a lot better documented ;-) I've posted a text version of the xml.etree.ElementTree PythonDoc here: http://www.python.org/sf/1504046 hopefully, one of

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.5 issues need resolving in a few days

2006-06-12 Thread engelbert . gruber
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Fredrik Lundh wrote: if all undocumented modules had as much documentation and articles as ET, the world would be a lot better documented ;-) I've posted a text version of the xml.etree.ElementTree PythonDoc here: http://www.python.org/sf/1504046 hopefully, one of

Re: [Python-Dev] beta1 coming real soon

2006-06-12 Thread Walter Dörwald
H.Yamamoto wrote: - Original Message - From: Walter Dörwald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: H.Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: python-dev python-dev@python.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] beta1 coming real soon The best way to throughly test the patch is of

Re: [Python-Dev] UUID module

2006-06-12 Thread Paul Moore
On 6/12/06, Ka-Ping Yee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Giovanni Bajo wrote: Some comments on the code: for dir in ['', r'c:\windows\system32', r'c:\winnt\system32']: Can we get rid of these absolute paths? Something like this should suffice: from ctypes import *

Re: [Python-Dev] Switch statement

2006-06-12 Thread skip
Greg Multiple values could be written Gregcase 'a': Gregcase 'b': Gregcase 'c': Greg ... That would be an exception to the rule that a line ending in a colon introduces an indented block. Skip ___ Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] Switch statement

2006-06-12 Thread skip
Greg A way out of this would be to define the semantics so that the Greg expression values are allowed to be cached, and the order of Greg evaluation and testing is undefined. So the first time through, Greg the values could all be put in a dict, to be looked up thereafter. And

Re: [Python-Dev] sgmllib Comments

2006-06-12 Thread Sam Ruby
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Sam Ruby wrote: If we can agree on the behavior, I would be glad to write up a patch. It seems to me that the simplest way to proceed would be for the code that attempts to resolve character references (both named and numeric) in attributes to be isolated in a single

[Python-Dev] Scoping vs augmented assignment vs sets (Re: 'fast locals' in Python 2.5)

2006-06-12 Thread Boris Borcic
Hello, Armin Rigo wrote: Hi, On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 02:07:48AM +0200, Thomas Wouters wrote: I just submitted http://python.org/sf/1501934 and assigned it to Neal so it doesn't get forgotten before 2.5 goes out ;) It seems Python 2.5 compiles the following code incorrectly: No, no, it's

[Python-Dev] file()

2006-06-12 Thread Kristján V . Jónsson
I notice that file() throws an IOError when it detects an invalid mode string. Wouldn't a ValueError be more appropriate? Kristján ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe:

Re: [Python-Dev] a note in random.shuffle.__doc__ ...

2006-06-12 Thread Raymond Hettinger
Alex Martelli wrote: ...claims: Note that for even rather small len(x), the total number of permutations of x is larger than the period of most random number generators; this implies that most permutations of a long sequence can never be generated. Now -- why would the behavior of most random

Re: [Python-Dev] file()

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
Yup, although it's a change in behavior that would need to be studied carefully for backwards incompatibilities. Usually it's given as a constant, so there won't be any problems; but there might be code that receives a mode string and attempts to test its validity by trying it and catching

Re: [Python-Dev] sgmllib Comments

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Sam Ruby wrote: I don't see why expanding to multiple characters is a problem. That isn't a problem. Expanding to unparsed entities is. So the current call to handle_entityref must remain. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list

Re: [Python-Dev] Switch statement

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 12:44 AM 6/12/2006 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote: the compiler can of course figure that out also for if/elif/else state- ments, by inspecting the AST. the only advantage for switch/case is user syntax... Not quite true - you'd have to restrict the switch expression in some way, so you don't

[Python-Dev] Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
As requested in PEP 360, please inform me of any issues you find so they can be corrected in the standalone package and merged back to the trunk. I just wasted time cutting an 0.1.1 release of the standalone wsgiref package only to find that it doesn't correspond to any particular point in the

Re: [Python-Dev] UUID module

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 07:24 PM 6/11/2006 -0500, Ka-Ping Yee wrote: Thomas Heller wrote: I don't know if this is the uuidgen you're talking about, but on linux there is libuuid: Thanks! Okay, that's in there now. Have a look at http://zesty.ca/python/uuid.py . Phillip J. Eby wrote: By the way, I'd love to

Re: [Python-Dev] FYI: wsgiref is now checked in

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 03:22 PM 6/10/2006 -0400, Tim Peters wrote: This may be because compare_generic_iter() uses `assert` statements, and those vanish under -O. If so, a test shouldn't normally use `assert`. On rare occasions it's appropriate, like test_struct's: if x 0: expected

Re: [Python-Dev] Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/11/06, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As requested in PEP 360, please inform me of any issues you find so they can be corrected in the standalone package and merged back to the trunk. I just wasted time cutting an 0.1.1 release of the standalone wsgiref package only to find that

Re: [Python-Dev] Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 09:04 AM 6/12/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: IOW I think PEP 360 is an unfortunate historic accident, and we would be better off without it. I propose that we don't add to it going forward, and that we try to get rid of it as we can. 4 of the 6 modules in PEP 360 were added to Python in

Re: [Python-Dev] UUID module

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ka-Ping Yee wrote: I'd like to, but i don't want to use a method for finding the system directory that depends on ctypes. Is there a more general way? I think os.path.join(os.environ[SystemRoot], system32) should be fairly reliable. If people are worried that the directory might not be

Re: [Python-Dev] beta1 coming real soon

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Walter Dörwald wrote: The best way to throughly test the patch is of course to check it in. ;) Is it too risky? ;) At least I'd like to get a second review of the patch. I've reviewed it, and am likely to check it in. I notice that the patch still has problems. In particular, it is limited

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.5 issues need resolving in a few days

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
PyXML appears pretty stable (in terms of release frequency -- I have no opinion on the code quality :-). Perhaps it could just be incorporated into the Python svn tree, if the various owners are willing to sign a contributor statement? --Guido On 6/11/06, Martin v. Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Re: [Python-Dev] Import semantics

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Samuele Pedroni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fabio Zadrozny wrote: Python and Jython import semantics differ on how sub-packages should be accessed after importing some module: Jython 2.1 on java1.5.0 (JIT: null) Type copyright, credits or license for more information.

Re: [Python-Dev] Should hex() yield 'L' suffix for long numbers?

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
Here's how I interpret PEP 237. Some changes to hex() and oct() are warned about in B1and to be implemented in B2. But I'm pretty sure that was about the treatment of negative numbers, not about the trailing 'L'. I believe the PEP authors overlooked the trailing 'L' for hex() and oct(). I think

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: 4 of the 6 modules in PEP 360 were added to Python in 2.5, so if you want to get rid of it, *now* would be the time. I'm all for it. While I am an enthusiastic supporter of several of those additions, I am *not* in favor of the special status granted to software

[Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 09:43 AM 6/12/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: On 6/12/06, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:04 AM 6/12/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: IOW I think PEP 360 is an unfortunate historic accident, and we would be better off without it. I propose that we don't add to it going

Re: [Python-Dev] Switch statement

2006-06-12 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Thomas Lee wrote: Hi all, As the subject of this e-mail says, the attached patch adds a switch statement to the Python language. However, I've been reading through PEP 275 and it seems that the PEP calls for a new opcode - SWITCH - to be added to support the new construct. I got a bit

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:43 AM 6/12/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: On 6/12/06, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:04 AM 6/12/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: IOW I think PEP 360 is an unfortunate historic accident, and we would be better

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Barry Warsaw
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:08:52 -0400 Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I won't claim to speak for the other authors, I would guess that they have the same reason for wanting that status as I do: to be able to maintain an external release

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is this we don't give a fuck about 3rd party developers and users attitude really representative for the python-dev community and the PSF ? If you want the PSF to listen to you should watch your language. I'm out of here, back to focusing on

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stopchanging wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Guido van Rossum wrote: Maybe we should get serious about slimming down the core distribution and having a separate group of people maintain sumo bundles containing Python and lots of other stuff. there are already lots of people doing that (most Linux distributions add stuff, directly or

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Fred L. Drake, Jr.
On Monday 12 June 2006 13:42, Guido van Rossum wrote: Maybe we should get serious about slimming down the core distribution and having a separate group of people maintain sumo bundles containing Python and lots of other stuff. +1 -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake at acm.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Brett Cannon
On 6/12/06, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin v. Löwis wrote: Then I guess we should deal with before 2.5b1, and delay 2.5b1 until the status of each of these has been clarified. Each maintainer should indicate whether he is happy with a this is part of Python approach. If so, the

Re: [Python-Dev] a note in random.shuffle.__doc__ ...

2006-06-12 Thread Nicko van Someren
On 12 Jun 2006, at 02:19, Terry Jones wrote: Greg == Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Terry Jones wrote: Suppose you have a RNG with a cycle length of 5. There's nothing to stop an algorithm from taking multiple already returned values and combining them in some

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Brett Cannon wrote: But I don't think this is trying to say they don't care. People just want to lower the overhead of maintaining the distro. well, wouldn't the best way to do that be to leave all non-trivial maintenance of a given component to an existing external community? (after all,

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stopchanging wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Giovanni Bajo
Guido van Rossum wrote: I personally think that, going forward, external maintainers should not be granted privileges such as are being granted by PEP 360, and an inclusion of a package in the Python tree should be considered a fork for all practical purposes. If an external developer is not

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stopchanging wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Giovanni Bajo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: I personally think that, going forward, external maintainers should not be granted privileges such as are being granted by PEP 360, and an inclusion of a package in the Python tree should be considered a fork for

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean, we're not really talking about ordinary leak-elimination or portability-fixing or security-hole-plugging maintenance; it's the let's-extend-the-api-in-incompatible- ways and fork-because-we-can stuff that I'm worried about. Have

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Brett Cannon
On 6/12/06, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brett Cannon wrote: But I don't think this is trying to say they don't care.People just want to lower the overhead of maintaining the distro.well, wouldn't the best way to do that be to leave all non-trivial maintenance of a given component to an

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 10:42 AM 6/12/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: Sure, but this doesn't require the draconian I-and-I-only own the code approach that you have. If there were only one version and directory tree to maintain to do both the Python trunk and the external version, I wouldn't mind other people

Re: [Python-Dev] Should hex() yield 'L' suffix for long numbers?

2006-06-12 Thread Tim Peters
[Guido] Here's how I interpret PEP 237. Some changes to hex() and oct() are warned about in B1and to be implemented in B2. But I'm pretty sure that was about the treatment of negative numbers, not about the trailing 'L'. I believe the PEP authors overlooked the trailing 'L' for hex() and

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread A.M. Kuchling
On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:42:44AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: standard library code is just more of a maintenance burden. Maybe we should get serious about slimming down the core distribution and having a separate group of people maintain sumo bundles containing Python and lots of other

Re: [Python-Dev] Import semantics

2006-06-12 Thread Bill Janssen
the difference in Jython is deliberate. I think the reason was to mimic more the Java style for this, in java fully qualified names always work. In jython importing the top level packages is enough to get a similar effect. This is unlikely to change for backward compatibility reasons, at

Re: [Python-Dev] file()

2006-06-12 Thread Georg Brandl
Guido van Rossum wrote: Yup, although it's a change in behavior that would need to be studied carefully for backwards incompatibilities. Usually it's given as a constant, so there won't be any problems; but there might be code that receives a mode string and attempts to test its validity by

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Tim Peters
[Brett] But I don't think this is trying to say they don't care. People just want to lower the overhead of maintaining the distro. [Fredrik] well, wouldn't the best way to do that be to leave all non-trivial maintenance of a given component to an existing external community? (after all,

Re: [Python-Dev] Import semantics

2006-06-12 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Bill Janssen wrote: If it's Python, it has to comply with the Python specification, regardless of what Java does. what specification ? /F ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] file()

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Georg Brandl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: Yup, although it's a change in behavior that would need to be studied carefully for backwards incompatibilities. Usually it's given as a constant, so there won't be any problems; but there might be code that

Re: [Python-Dev] file()

2006-06-12 Thread Georg Brandl
Guido van Rossum wrote: On 6/12/06, Georg Brandl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: Yup, although it's a change in behavior that would need to be studied carefully for backwards incompatibilities. Usually it's given as a constant, so there won't be any problems; but there

Re: [Python-Dev] Should hex() yield 'L' suffix for long numbers?

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Guido] Here's how I interpret PEP 237. Some changes to hex() and oct() are warned about in B1and to be implemented in B2. But I'm pretty sure that was about the treatment of negative numbers, not about the trailing 'L'. I believe the PEP

Re: [Python-Dev] file()

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
No, because ValueError is the better exception for an invalid mode string. On 6/12/06, Georg Brandl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: On 6/12/06, Georg Brandl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: Yup, although it's a change in behavior that would need to be

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Edward C. Jones
Guido van Rossum wrote: developers contributing code without wanting to give up control are the problem. That hits the nail on the head. If something is added to the standard library, it becomes part of Python and must be controlled by whoever controls Python. Otherwise there will be chaos.

Re: [Python-Dev] Import semantics

2006-06-12 Thread Bill Janssen
/F writes: what [Python] specification? Good meta-point. Bill ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe:

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread A.M. Kuchling
On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 11:25:21AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: Have any instances of that actually happened? That would be a problem with *any* code in the Python library, not just external contributions, so I'm not sure why external contribions should be treated any differently here.

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 03:29 PM 6/12/2006 -0400, Tim Peters wrote: That's all ordinary everyday maintenance, and, e.g., there is no mechanism to exempt anything in a checkout tree from reindent.py or PyChecker complaints. In addition, not shown above is that I changed test_wsgiref.py to stop a test failure under -O.

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stopchanging wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread A.M. Kuchling
On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 03:12:20PM -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote: encountered this myself. I *have* seen some developers make spurious cleanups to working code that breaks compatibility with older Python versions, though, just not in wsgiref. Note that the standard library policy has always

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stopchanging wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Paul Moore
On 6/12/06, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: Maybe we should get serious about slimming down the core distribution and having a separate group of people maintain sumo bundles containing Python and lots of other stuff. there are already lots of people doing

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Edward C. Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: developers contributing code without wanting to give up control are the problem. That hits the nail on the head. If something is added to the standard library, it becomes part of Python and must be controlled by

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stopchanging wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, A.M. Kuchling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO we should require all modules with version constraints or external master source to have comments indicating this *in the code*, at the top of every source file, so that someone writing a patch or bugfix knows what the requirements are.

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Thomas Heller
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: 4 of the 6 modules in PEP 360 were added to Python in 2.5, so if you want to get rid of it, *now* would be the time. I'm all for it. While I am an enthusiastic supporter of several of those additions, I am *not* in favor of the special

[Python-Dev] can't unpack IEEE 754 special value on non-IEEE platform

2006-06-12 Thread Fredrik Lundh
I just ran the PIL test suite using the current Python trunk, and the tests for a user-contributed plugin raised an interesting exception: ValueError: can't unpack IEEE 754 special value on non-IEEE platform fixing this is easy, but the error is somewhat confusing: since when is a modern Intel

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stopchanging wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Barry Warsaw
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:12:20 -0400 Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, Barry's approach to the email package makes good sense to me, and I'd use it, except that SVN externals can't sync individual files. I'd have to create

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stopchanging wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Robert Kern
Paul Moore wrote: This is purely speculation (and fairly negative speculation at that!) but I'd advocate caution for a while yet. Maybe ActiveState or Enthought could provide some input on how/if sumo bundles can address the need to upgrade parts of the distribution? We at Enthought are

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Thomas Heller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will be happy to say ctypes is part of Python (although I *fear* it is not one of the packages enthusiastically supported by Guido ;-). I don't plan to use it myself, but I'm very happy that it's in the stdlib since so many people like it.

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Thomas Heller
Guido van Rossum wrote: On 6/12/06, Thomas Heller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will be happy to say ctypes is part of Python (although I *fear* it is not one of the packages enthusiastically supported by Guido ;-). I don't plan to use it myself, but I'm very happy that it's in the stdlib

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
[posting back to python-dev in case others also perceived my original message as impolite] At 01:25 PM 6/12/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: Oh, and the tone of your email was *not* polite. Messages starting with I wasted an hour of my time are not polite pretty much by definition. Actually,

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
A01:01 PM 6/12/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: I think I pretty much did already -- going forward, I'd like to see that contributing something to the stdlib means that from then on maintenance is done using the same policies and guidelines as the rest of the stdlib (which are pretty

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Tim Peters
[Tim] In addition, not shown above is that I changed test_wsgiref.py to stop a test failure under -O. Given that we're close to the next Python release, and test_wsgiref was the only -O test failure, I wasn't going to let that stand. I did wait ~30 hours between emailing about the problem

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 03:42 PM 6/12/2006 -0400, Edward C. Jones wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: developers contributing code without wanting to give up control are the problem. That hits the nail on the head. Actually it's both irrelevant and insulting. I just want changes made by the Python core developers

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Phillip J. Eby wrote: I'd still rather have a Packages/ directory, but beggars can't be choosers. there's plenty of time to work on that for 2.6... /F ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] can't unpack IEEE 754 special value on non-IEEE platform

2006-06-12 Thread Tim Peters
[Fredrik Lundh] I just ran the PIL test suite using the current Python trunk, and the tests for a user-contributed plugin raised an interesting exception: ValueError: can't unpack IEEE 754 special value on non-IEEE platform fixing this is easy, but the error is somewhat confusing: since when

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Brett Cannon
On 6/12/06, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phillip J. Eby wrote: I'd still rather have a Packages/ directory, but beggars can't be choosers.there's plenty of time to work on that for 2.6...I have started a thread on python-3000 to try to get a PEP pulled together to solidify what we want

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Phillip J. Eby wrote: I just want changes made by the Python core developers to be reflected in the external releases. and presumably, the reason for that isn't that you care about your ego, but that you care about your users. /F ___ Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] can't unpack IEEE 754 special value on non-IEEE platform

2006-06-12 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Tim Peters wrote: Which OS and compiler were in use? A possible cause is that the platform didn't supply #defines for SIZEOF_DOUBLE and/or SIZEOF_FLOAT when Python was compiled. This was, e.g., true on Windows before rev 46065. and looking again, I was indeed running 2.5 alpha 2 (revision

Re: [Python-Dev] Source control tools

2006-06-12 Thread Thomas Wouters
On 6/12/06, Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps issues like these should motivate us to consider a differentsource control tool. There's a new crop of tools out that could solvethis by having multiple repositories that can be sync'ed with eachother. This sounds like an important move

Re: [Python-Dev] Switch statement

2006-06-12 Thread Michael Walter
Maybe switch became a keyword with the patch.. Regards, Michael On 6/12/06, M.-A. Lemburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Lee wrote: Hi all, As the subject of this e-mail says, the attached patch adds a switch statement to the Python language. However, I've been reading through PEP

Re: [Python-Dev] Source control tools

2006-06-12 Thread Brett Cannon
On 6/12/06, Thomas Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/12/06, Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps issues like these should motivate us to consider a differentsource control tool. There's a new crop of tools out that could solvethis by having multiple repositories that can be

Re: [Python-Dev] Source control tools

2006-06-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 6/12/06, Thomas Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [*] Short? This whole mail was short! I can talk for hours about the benefit of proper branches and what kind of stuff is easier, better and more efficient with them. I can draw huge ASCII diagrams explaining the fundamental difference

Re: [Python-Dev] can't unpack IEEE 754 special value on non-IEEE platform

2006-06-12 Thread Michael Hudson
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just ran the PIL test suite using the current Python trunk, and the tests for a user-contributed plugin raised an interesting exception: ValueError: can't unpack IEEE 754 special value on non-IEEE platform fixing this is easy, but the error is

Re: [Python-Dev] Source control tools

2006-06-12 Thread Oleg Broytmann
On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 11:31:14PM +0200, Thomas Wouters wrote: First of all, changing SCM means changing how everyone works. Distributed branches is not the only requirement. There are also: -- subtree authorization (different access rights in different parts of the tree); in distributed

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Fredrik Lundh wrote: But I don't think this is trying to say they don't care. People just want to lower the overhead of maintaining the distro. well, wouldn't the best way to do that be to leave all non-trivial maintenance of a given component to an existing external community? If you

Re: [Python-Dev] Source control tools

2006-06-12 Thread Thomas Wouters
On 6/13/06, Oleg Broytmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 11:31:14PM +0200, Thomas Wouters wrote: First of all, changing SCM means changing how everyone works. Distributed branches is not the only requirement. Oh, I know, no worries about that. There are also:-- subtree

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Brett Cannon wrote: Well, I don't know if that is necessarily the case. PEP 360 doesn't have a single project saying that minor fixes can just go right in. If we want to just change the wording such that all code in the tree can be touched for bug fixes and compatibility issues without

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby wrote: Actually it's both irrelevant and insulting. I just want changes made by the Python core developers to be reflected in the external releases. I'd be more than happy to move the external release to the Python SVN server if that would make it happen. I think the

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Fredrik Lundh wrote: I just want changes made by the Python core developers to be reflected in the external releases. and presumably, the reason for that isn't that you care about your ego, but that you care about your users. For that, yes. However, the reason to desire that no changes

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.5 issues need resolving in a few days

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: PyXML appears pretty stable (in terms of release frequency -- I have no opinion on the code quality :-). Perhaps it could just be incorporated into the Python svn tree, if the various owners are willing to sign a contributor statement? That is, in itself, a

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Steve Holden
Phillip J. Eby wrote: [posting back to python-dev in case others also perceived my original message as impolite] At 01:25 PM 6/12/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: Oh, and the tone of your email was *not* polite. Messages starting with I wasted an hour of my time are not polite pretty

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 12:28 AM 6/13/2006 +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote: If you remember that this is the procedure: sure. However, if the maintainer of a package thinks (and says) somebody edited my code, this should not happen again, then I really think the code is better not part of the Python distribution. The

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 12:56 AM 6/13/2006 +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Fredrik Lundh wrote: I just want changes made by the Python core developers to be reflected in the external releases. and presumably, the reason for that isn't that you care about your ego, but that you care about your users. For that,

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 12:09 AM 6/13/2006 +0100, Steve Holden wrote: Phillip J. Eby wrote: Anyway, will anyone who was offended by the original message please pretend that it was delightfully witty and written by Tim instead? Thanks. ;) I wonder what the hell's up with Tim. He's been really crabby lately

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby wrote: At 12:28 AM 6/13/2006 +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote: If you remember that this is the procedure: sure. However, if the maintainer of a package thinks (and says) somebody edited my code, this should not happen again, then I really think the code is better not part of the

Re: [Python-Dev] Scoping vs augmented assignment vs sets (Re: 'fast locals' in Python 2.5)

2006-06-12 Thread Josiah Carlson
Boris Borcic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Armin Rigo wrote: Hi, On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 02:07:48AM +0200, Thomas Wouters wrote: I just submitted http://python.org/sf/1501934 and assigned it to Neal so it doesn't get forgotten before 2.5 goes out ;) It seems Python 2.5 compiles

[Python-Dev] socket._socketobject.close() doesn't really close sockets

2006-06-12 Thread Bruce Christensen
In implementing the IronPython _socket module, I've discovered some puzzling behavior in the standard Python socket wrapper module: socket._socketobject.close() doesn't actually close sockets; rather, it just sets _sock to an instance of _closedsocket and lets the GC clean up the real socket. (See

Re: [Python-Dev] External Package Maintenance (was Re: Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Tim Peters
[Phillip J. Eby] Actually, I started out with please -- twice, after having previously asked please in advance. I've also seen lots of messages on Python-Dev where Tim Peters wrote about having wasted time due to other folks not following established procedures, and I tried to emulate his

Re: [Python-Dev] a note in random.shuffle.__doc__ ...

2006-06-12 Thread Greg Ewing
Terry Jones wrote: The code below uses a RNG with period 5, is deterministic, and has one initial state. It produces 20 different outcomes. You misunderstand what's meant by outcome in this context. The outcome of your algorithm is the whole *sequence* of numbers it produces, not each

Re: [Python-Dev] UUID module

2006-06-12 Thread Ka-Ping Yee
On Mon, 12 Jun 2006, Giovanni Bajo wrote: GetSystemDirectory() is the official way to find the system directory. You're right. I've added a call to GetSystemDirectory, with a fallback to the usual locations if it doesn't work. Another thing that you might do is to drop those absolute system

Re: [Python-Dev] Source control tools

2006-06-12 Thread Giovanni Bajo
Thomas Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be an important move towards world peace, if it didn't inspire whole new SCM-holy-wars :-) I have a fair bit of experience with different SCM (VC, source control tool, however you want to call them) so I'll take this opportunity to toss up

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping externally maintained packages (Was:Please stop changing wsgiref on the trunk)

2006-06-12 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 01:36 AM 6/13/2006 +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote: From that, I can only conclude that you requested that people should not make changes again without contacting you or the Web-SIG. Indeed I was -- back when I was under the mistaken impression that PEP 360 actually meant what it appeared to

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