Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> However, I think people ask much too often for a debugging build; > in many cases, they could work happily with a release build that > supports debugging. Depending on the problem you try to solve, you > may or may not need debug information for pythonxy.dll as well, > or just for your extension

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 07:32:42AM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: -> > Addressing only the issues of PCBuild8 and 64-bit architectures, I -> > have tried to establish "free" buildbot support for the 64-bit -> > architectures without any real success. -> > -> > Should the PSF be considering paying

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> Addressing only the issues of PCBuild8 and 64-bit architectures, I > have tried to establish "free" buildbot support for the 64-bit > architectures without any real success. > > Should the PSF be considering paying for infrastructure that will > support 64-bit build reporting? You can bring it

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Neal Becker writes: > Perhaps my comment was misunderstood. I have no objection to a new system, > and it does not have to be based on latex. I just hope there will be some > escape mechanism that allows math. Docutils already provides the "raw" directive. I don't know if the latex backend

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> Yes, that is correct. I agree it will be rarely used by Python user's, but > believe it is a common scenario for people who maintain extensions or > libraries, particularly those who want debugging builds. Ah, debugging builds. It's true that PCbuild does not support them for AMD64, and it's al

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

Kristján Valur Jónsson wrote: > First of all, I have put some work into pcbuild8 recently and it works > well. I am trying to drum up momentum for work on PCBuild8 > next europython. See http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython2007Sprints > > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTE

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

Hi Martin, > > I'm using the full-blown VS.NET 2003, as given to a number > of python-dev > > people by Microsoft a number of years ago. This appears to > come with the > > SDK and a 64bit compiler. > > Not sure what it makes it appear to you that way - it doesn't. VS.NET > 2003 is x86 only Yes

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

Hi Marc-Andre, > +1 from me. > > If think this is simply a bug introduced with the UCS4 patches in > Python 2.2. > > unicodeobject.h already has this code: > > #ifndef PY_UNICODE_TYPE > > /* Windows has a usable wchar_t type (unless we're using UCS-4) */ > # if defined(MS_WIN32) && Py_UNICODE_SIZE

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On 5/21/07, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think the people who have responded to my comment read too much into it. > > Nowhere do I think I asked Georg to write an equation typesetter to include > > in the Python documentation toolchain. I asked that math capability be > > con

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On 5/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> One comment I have, I don't know if it's relevant - it perhaps > >> depends on whether the "Global Module Index" is auto-generated or > >> not. This is the page I visit the most out of all the Python > >> documentation,

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Neal> It happens that for math markup, there isn't really anything Neal> better (or more familiar) than latex. True enough. There is MathML and its offspring, ASCIIMathML, which are probably worth looking at. http://www.w3.org/Math/ http://www1.chapman.edu/~jipsen/asciimath.html

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Mon, May 21, 2007, Jon Ribbens wrote: > > One comment I have, I don't know if it's relevant - it perhaps depends > on whether the "Global Module Index" is auto-generated or not. This is > the page I visit the most out of all the Python documentation, and > it's far too large and unwieldy. IMHO

[Python-Dev] Module cleanup improvement

Hi all, Bug #1717900 has an example of a script that causes a (cryptic, IMO) error during module cleanup since instances of a class just happen to get destroyed after their class is destroyed, and the __del__ method manipulates a class attribute. As I understand it this is expected under the beha

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >>> What would be my choices for add math to the documentation? > > >> Where in the current documentation is there any math notation /at > >> all/? > > Georg> There is exactly one instance of LaTeX math in the whole docs, > Georg> it's in the des

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Monday 21 May 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Take a look at . It records request > counts for the various pages and presents the most frequently requested > pages in a section at the top of the page. I can make the script > available if anyone wants it (

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Monday 21 May 2007, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > Disadvantages: > > * reST markup isn't much simpler than LaTeX. * reST doesn't support nested markup, which is used in the current documentation. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. ___ Python-Dev maili

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0365: Adding the pkg_resources module

At 11:44 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >On 2007-05-21 22:48, Phillip J. Eby wrote: > > At 08:56 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >> On 2007-05-21 20:01, Phillip J. Eby wrote: > >> > At 06:28 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >> >> However, since this is not egg-specifi

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

>> One comment I have, I don't know if it's relevant - it perhaps >> depends on whether the "Global Module Index" is auto-generated or >> not. This is the page I visit the most out of all the Python >> documentation, and it's far too large and unwieldy. IMHO it would be >> much

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Bill Janssen schrieb: >> We are developing a programming language here, not a typesetting >> system. > > Good point, Martin. Are you implying that the documentation should be > kept in LaTeX, a widely-accepted widely-disseminated stable > documentation language, which someone else maintains, rath

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> Martin> I disagree. The documentation infrastructure of Python should > Martin> only consider the needs of Python itself. If other people can > Martin> use that infrastructure for other purposes, fine - if they find > Martin> that it does not meet their needs, they have to look el

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> I think the people who have responded to my comment read too much into it. > Nowhere do I think I asked Georg to write an equation typesetter to include > in the Python documentation toolchain. I asked that math capability be > considered. I have no idea what tools he used to build his new > do

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0365: Adding the pkg_resources module

On 2007-05-21 22:48, Phillip J. Eby wrote: > At 08:56 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> On 2007-05-21 20:01, Phillip J. Eby wrote: >> > At 06:28 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> >> However, since this is not egg-specific it should probably be >> >> moved to pkgutil and get a se

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

>> I don't find the need to have separate object directories convincing: >> For building the Win32/Win64 binaries, I have separate checkouts >> *anyway*, since all the add-on libraries would have to support >> multi-arch builds, but I think they don't. > > No they don't, but that doesn't mean that

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> I'm using the full-blown VS.NET 2003, as given to a number of python-dev > people by Microsoft a number of years ago. This appears to come with the > SDK and a 64bit compiler. Not sure what it makes it appear to you that way - it doesn't. VS.NET 2003 is x86 only > I'm guessing vsextcomp doesn'

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Mon, May 21, 2007 at 09:23:47AM -0400, Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote: > I'll be happy to pull the existing tools out into a separate distribution if > we move to something else for Python. There are too many users of the > existing tools to abandon. That seems like a straightforward task. The

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Jon Ribbens schrieb: > On Sat, May 19, 2007 at 07:14:09PM +0200, Georg Brandl wrote: >> For the impatient: the result can be seen at . > > I think that looks great. > > One comment I have, I don't know if it's relevant - it perhaps depends > on whether the "Global Module

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0365: Adding the pkg_resources module

At 08:56 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >On 2007-05-21 20:01, Phillip J. Eby wrote: > > At 06:28 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >> However, since this is not egg-specific it should probably be > >> moved to pkgutil and get a separate PEP with detailed documentation > >> (the l

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Sat, May 19, 2007 at 07:14:09PM +0200, Georg Brandl wrote: > For the impatient: the result can be seen at . I think that looks great. One comment I have, I don't know if it's relevant - it perhaps depends on whether the "Global Module Index" is auto-generated or not. T

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Fred L. Drake, Jr. schrieb: > On Monday 21 May 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Then I submit that you are probably removing some significant piece of > > functionality from the provided documentation toolchain which some people > > probably rely on. After all, that's what LaTeX excels at. T

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > Brett> Martin beat me to my comment. =) Python's needs should come > Brett> first, period. If Georg wants to add math support, fine. But > Brett> honestly I would rather he spend his time on Python-specific > Brett> stuff then get bogged down to suppo

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On May 21, 2007, at 12:28 AM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > I disagree. The documentation infrastructure of Python should only > consider the needs of Python itself. If other people can use that > infrastructure for other purposes, fine - if they find that

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Robert Kern schrieb: > Neal Becker wrote: > >> There is an effort as part of numpy to come up with a new system using >> docstrings. It seems to me it would be unfortunate if these two efforts >> were not coordinated. > > I don't think so. The issue with numpy is getting our act together and mak

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Nick Craig-Wood schrieb: > Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> over the last few weeks I've hacked on a new approach to Python's >> documentation. >> As Python already has an excellent documentation framework, the docutils, >> with a >> readable yet extendable markup format, reST, I tho

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0365: Adding the pkg_resources module

On 2007-05-21 20:01, Phillip J. Eby wrote: > At 06:28 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> However, since this is not egg-specific it should probably be >> moved to pkgutil and get a separate PEP with detailed documentation >> (the link you provided doesn't really explain the concepts, readi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0365: Adding the pkg_resources module

At 06:28 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >However, since this is not egg-specific it should probably be >moved to pkgutil and get a separate PEP with detailed documentation >(the link you provided doesn't really explain the concepts, reading >the code helped a bit). That doesn't really ma

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> We are developing a programming language here, not a typesetting > system. Good point, Martin. Are you implying that the documentation should be kept in LaTeX, a widely-accepted widely-disseminated stable documentation language, which someone else maintains, rather than ReST, which elements of

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> Could this be a language-independent documenting toolkit? Could > we document LISP or Ruby code with it? Might want to look at "noweb", http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~nr/noweb/: ``...noweb works ``out of the box'' with any programming language, and supports TeX, latex, HTML, and troff back ends.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0365: Adding the pkg_resources module

On 2007-05-21 16:05, Phillip J. Eby wrote: > At 01:43 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> On 2007-05-21 00:07, Talin wrote: >>> Phillip J. Eby wrote: I wanted to get this in before the Py3K PEP deadline, since this is a Python 2.6 PEP that would presumably impact 3.x as >> well.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0365: Adding the pkg_resources module

At 01:43 PM 5/21/2007 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >On 2007-05-21 00:07, Talin wrote: > > Phillip J. Eby wrote: > >> I wanted to get this in before the Py3K PEP deadline, since this is a > >> Python 2.6 PEP that would presumably impact 3.x as > well. Feedback welcome. > >> > >> > >> PEP: 365 > >>

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Monday 21 May 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Then I submit that you are probably removing some significant piece of > functionality from the provided documentation toolchain which some people > probably rely on. After all, that's what LaTeX excels at. They will be > able to continue to u

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

Hi Kristján, > First of all, I have put some work into pcbuild8 recently and it works > well. It does! There are a few issues though, notably with distutils (and as mentioned before, any other tools what may assume PCBuild - see below) You quoting Martin: > > I don't find the need to have separ

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

>> You must realize that people will use the core tools to create >> documentation for third party packages which aren't in the core. If >> you replace LaTeX with something else I think you need to keep math >> in mind whether it's used in the core documentation or not. Marti

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Brett> Martin beat me to my comment. =) Python's needs should come Brett> first, period. If Georg wants to add math support, fine. But Brett> honestly I would rather he spend his time on Python-specific Brett> stuff then get bogged down to support possible third parties. I thin

Re: [Python-Dev] wchar_t (was Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8) on Windows

> -Original Message- > below appears to solve the problem, and given Martin's previous +1, I > decided to stop there. I failed in a quick attempt at replacing the > literal 2 with something involving sizeof. Does this look reasonable? > +1. I should add that we have this local mod in o

Re: [Python-Dev] wchar_t (was Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8) on Windows

Kristján Valur Jónsson quoting me: > > hrm - as above, I'm more concerned with the definition of > > WCHAR - which > > means my problem is related more to the Platform SDK version rather > > than the > > compiler. This is unfortunate - on one hand we do consider > > 'platform=Windows API', and WC

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0365: Adding the pkg_resources module

On 2007-05-21 00:07, Talin wrote: > Phillip J. Eby wrote: >> I wanted to get this in before the Py3K PEP deadline, since this is a >> Python 2.6 PEP that would presumably impact 3.x as well. Feedback welcome. >> >> >> PEP: 365 >> Title: Adding the pkg_resources module > > I'm really surprised th

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> -Original Message- > This was in C++, but the problem was really WCHAR, as used by much of > the > win32 API. > > > I'd rather make it a platform-specific definition (for > > platform=Windows > > API). Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't wchar_t also available in VS > > 2003 (and even in

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

On 2007-05-21 12:30, Kristján Valur Jónsson wrote: >> >> [Py_UNICODE being #defined as "unsigned short" on Windows] >> >> I'd rather make it a platform-specific definition (for platform=Windows >> API). Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't wchar_t also available in VS >> 2003 (and even in VC6?). And

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

First of all, I have put some work into pcbuild8 recently and it works well. I am trying to drum up momentum for work on PCBuild8 next europython. See http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython2007Sprints > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I don't find the need to have separ

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > over the last few weeks I've hacked on a new approach to Python's > documentation. > As Python already has an excellent documentation framework, the docutils, > with a > readable yet extendable markup format, reST, I thought that it should be > possib

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

I would agree with the point that python core should be considered first, but I would also only see beneficial to leave the door open to the need of other packages. I have (briefly but intensely) worked on a revamp of pydoc earlier on this year, and while collecting requirements from a number of p