Re: [Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 09:39:49 am Mark Lawrence wrote: > I'm on the verge of giving up my time because the whole system is a > complete and utter waste of my time. [...] Mark, you have entirely avoided the issues Paul raised. It's one thing to fire off a snarky email implying that the Python devel

Re: [Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:42:12 pm Brian Curtin wrote: > First off, thanks for your time. One thing I don't feel is very > beneficial is to focus so much on the number of issues you are able > to close, because that number by itself is too high-level. Closing 10 > issues might not be better than clos

Re: [Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 18:39, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 24/07/2010 00:09, Paul Moore wrote: > >> On 23 July 2010 23:26, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> >>> Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for >>> this >>> issue? Is the OP still alive? >>> >> >> I'm not sure the sarcasm

Re: [Python-Dev] Set the namespace free!

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:24 AM, wrote: > I agree with the idea, but a far less radical change is needed to get the > desired result. > The basic idea is this: it should be possible to use any name as an > identifier in the syntax, including names > like 'while' and 'import'. But there is no nee

[Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Simon de Vlieger wrote: > On 24 July 2010 01:39, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> On 24/07/2010 00:09, Paul Moore wrote: >>> >>> On 23 July 2010 23:26, Mark Lawrence  wrote: Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for this issu

Re: [Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

On 24 July 2010 01:39, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 24/07/2010 00:09, Paul Moore wrote: >> >> On 23 July 2010 23:26, Mark Lawrence  wrote: >>> >>> Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for >>> this >>> issue?  Is the OP still alive? >> >> I'm not sure the sarcasm helps muc

[Python-Dev] [isssue 2001] Pydoc enhancement patch questions

This regards the following feature request. http://bugs.python.org/issue2001 Summery: The pydoc "gui" enhancement patch adds a navigation bar on each page with features that correspond to abilities that are currently available to help. ie.. a get field, to get help on an item, a find fi

Re: [Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

On 7/23/2010 6:26 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for this issue? Is the OP still alive? This reminds me of some low priority items on my todo list ;-) Hmmm. Right now there are 756 open feature requests out of 2779 open issues. There

Re: [Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

On 24/07/2010 00:09, Paul Moore wrote: On 23 July 2010 23:26, Mark Lawrence wrote: Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for this issue? Is the OP still alive? I'm not sure the sarcasm helps much. What do you suggest should be done with the request? Nobody has pro

Re: [Python-Dev] Python profiler and other tools

I am changing the subject from "http://bugs.python.org/issue231540,"; because if there was a prize for a non-descriptive subject, OP would win it. There must be a good reason why traditional software development tools such as debugger, profiler and coverage are mostly neglected in python. Terry a

Re: [Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

On 23 July 2010 23:26, Mark Lawrence wrote: > Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for this > issue?  Is the OP still alive? I'm not sure the sarcasm helps much. What do you suggest should be done with the request? Nobody has provided a patch, so there's nothing to co

[Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for this issue? Is the OP still alive? Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

On Jul 23, 2010, at 08:56 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Barry Warsaw >wrote: >> Python implementations *MAY* include additional flags in the file >> name tag as appropriate.  For example, on POSIX systems these flags >> will also contribute to the file name: >> >>  *

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

On Jul 23, 2010, at 01:46 PM, sch...@gmail.com wrote: >Doesn't anybody else think this is lost work for very little gain? My >/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages directory consumes 200MB on disk. I >couldn't care less if my /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages consumed the >same amount of disk space...

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

On Jul 23, 2010, at 12:54 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > >>> I'd be open to adding the >>> platform name to the tag, but I'd probably define it as part of the >>> implementation field, e.g. foo.cpython-linux2-32m.so. Or maybe >>> start with the pl

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

> I think I was wrong, but now I understand.  The inlining you want is > to get the nb_add body, not the opcode body. > Exactly. This would increase performace by quite a bit -- I will start experimentation with that stuff a.s.a.p. > The example you've given brings up a correctness issue.  It see

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:26 AM, stefan brunthaler wrote: >> I'm guessing from your comments below about cross-module inlining that >> you generate a separate .c file with the specialized opcode bodies and >> then call through to them via a table of function pointers indexed by >> opcode, but I c

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

> wpython has reached 1.1 final version. If you are interested, you can find > it here: http://code.google.com/p/wpython2/ and you can download the new > slides that cover the improvements over 1.0 alpha. > Thanks for the hint, I will definitely check your new slides. > Did you used wpython wordc

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

> How do you generate the specialized opcode implementations? > I have a small code generator written in Python that uses Mako templates to generate C files that can be included in the main interpreter. It is a data driven approach that uses type information gathered by gdb and check whether given

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

2010/7/23 stefan brunthaler > > This sounds like wpython (a CPython derivative with a wider set of byte > code > > commands) could benefit from it. > > > I am aware of the wpython project of Cesare di Mauro. wpython has reached 1.1 final version. If you are interested, you can find it here: htt

Re: [Python-Dev] Include datetime.py in stdlib or not?

2010/7/23 Alexander Belopolsky : > Thanks, everyone who followed up here and on the tracker.  I am > readying the patch for check in, but as I look back through the > messages, I don't really see anyone's answer to the question in the > subject: > > *  Include datetime.py in stdlib or not? > > I ho

Re: [Python-Dev] Include datetime.py in stdlib or not?

Thanks, everyone who followed up here and on the tracker. I am readying the patch for check in, but as I look back through the messages, I don't really see anyone's answer to the question in the subject: * Include datetime.py in stdlib or not? I hope this means an implied "yes, include." Since

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 1:58 AM, stefan brunthaler wrote: >> Do I understand correctly that you modify the byte code of modules/functions >> at runtime? >> > Yes. Quickening is runtime only optimization technique that rewrites > instructions from a generic instruction to an optimized derivative >

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 382 progress: import hooks

At 11:57 AM 7/23/2010 +0100, Brett Cannon wrote: On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 19:19, P.J. Eby <p...@telecommunity.com> wrote: What does "is not a package" actually mean in that context? The module is a module but not a package. Um... that's not any clearer. Are

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 02:13, Jesse Noller wrote: > On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > [snip] > > Great points Jesse! Since I really don't have the time or expertise to > > make a judgment on this PEP, I hereby appoint you chair of the > > approval process for this PE

[Python-Dev] Summary of Python tracker Issues

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2010-07-16 - 2010-07-23) Python tracker at http://bugs.python.org/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue number. Do NOT respond to this message. 2826 open (+62) / 18349 closed (+21) / 21175 total (+83) Open issues with patches: 1151 Ave

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

Am 23.07.2010 11:16, schrieb Hrvoje Niksic: > On 07/22/2010 01:34 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: >> Timings (seconds to run the test suite): >> >> re 26.689 26.015 26.008 >> regex 26.066 25.797 25.865 >> >> So, I thought there wasn't a difference in performance for this use case >> (which is comp

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

Am 23.07.2010 12:20, schrieb Nick Coghlan: > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Hrvoje Niksic wrote: >> The performance trade-off should make regex slower with sufficiently small >> compiled regex cache, when a lot of time is wasted on compilation. But as >> the cache gets larger (and, for fairness

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

Ronald Oussoren writes: > On 23 Jul, 2010, at 11:54, Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> >> What about the architecture (i386, amd64)? With every increase in length I >> start to get more concerned. We could encode the platform and architecture, >> but that gets into cryptic territory. OTOH, would you r

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 382 progress: import hooks

On 7/23/2010 11:57 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 19:19, P.J. Eby > wrote: > > At 01:51 PM 7/22/2010 +0100, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > > At EuroPython, I sat down with Brett and we propose an approach > how namespace packa

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Hrvoje Niksic wrote: > The performance trade-off should make regex slower with sufficiently small > compiled regex cache, when a lot of time is wasted on compilation.  But as > the cache gets larger (and, for fairness, of the same size in both > implementations), r

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

On 23 Jul, 2010, at 11:54, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > >>> I'd be open to adding the >>> platform name to the tag, but I'd probably define it as part of the >>> implementation field, e.g. foo.cpython-linux2-32m.so. Or maybe >>> start with the pla

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 382 progress: import hooks

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 19:19, P.J. Eby wrote: > At 01:51 PM 7/22/2010 +0100, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > >> At EuroPython, I sat down with Brett and we propose an approach >> how namespace packages get along with import hooks. I reshuffled >> the order in which things get done a little bit, and add

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Python implementations *MAY* include additional flags in the file name > tag as appropriate.  For example, on POSIX systems these flags will > also contribute to the file name: > >  * ``--with-pydebug`` (flag: ``d``) >  * ``--with-pymalloc``

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: >> I'd be open to adding the >> platform name to the tag, but I'd probably define it as part of the >> implementation field, e.g. foo.cpython-linux2-32m.so. Or maybe >> start with the platform name, e.g. foo.linux2-cpython-32m. This >> isn't

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

On 23 Jul, 2010, at 11:02, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Jul 22, 2010, at 03:58 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > >> I guess this is not an explicit goal of this PEP, but the structure is >> very close to supporting multiple system architectures at the same >> time. I regularly develop code that needs to

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 1:00 AM, David Cournapeau wrote: > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:08 PM, stefan brunthaler > wrote: >>> Is the source code under an open source non-copyleft license? >>> >> I am (unfortunately) not employed or funded by anybody, so I think >> that I can license/release the cod

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 360 has outdated contents

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 14:48, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > Hello all, > > PEP 360 - “Externally Maintained Packages” seems to have outdated > contents. > First of all, I don't think Optik and wsgiref are externally > maintained anymore (both seem unmaintained by their original authors). > Added a

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On 07/22/2010 01:34 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: Timings (seconds to run the test suite): re 26.689 26.015 26.008 regex 26.066 25.797 25.865 So, I thought there wasn't a difference in performance for this use case (which is compiling a lot of regexes and matching most of them only a few tim

Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Summit EuroPython 2010

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 13:00, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:51:57 +0100 > Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > That's an option. I just remember Tim bringing up something about that > > approach that didn't quite work as a complete replacement for __del__. > > > > Basically the whole se

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

On Jul 22, 2010, at 03:58 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: >I guess this is not an explicit goal of this PEP, but the structure is >very close to supporting multiple system architectures at the same >time. I regularly develop code that needs to run on Windows, Linux >and OSX and it is very convenient t

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils reverted in py3k

On 23 Jul, 2010, at 10:47, Tarek Ziadé wrote: > 2010/7/23 Ronald Oussoren : >> >> On 23 Jul, 2010, at 10:12, Ronald Oussoren wrote: >> >>> >>> On 22 Jul, 2010, at 14:01, Tarek Ziadé wrote: >>> Note that I'll revert Doc/distutils as well, but I need to check first with Ronald a few M

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils reverted in py3k

2010/7/23 Ronald Oussoren : > > On 23 Jul, 2010, at 10:12, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > >> >> On 22 Jul, 2010, at 14:01, Tarek Ziadé wrote: >> >>> Note that I'll revert Doc/distutils as well, but I need to check first >>> with Ronald a few Mac OS X points. >> >> Not just a few point, the revert complet

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils reverted in py3k

On 23 Jul, 2010, at 10:12, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > On 22 Jul, 2010, at 14:01, Tarek Ziadé wrote: > >> Note that I'll revert Doc/distutils as well, but I need to check first >> with Ronald a few Mac OS X points. > > Not just a few point, the revert completely broke universal builds on OSX.

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils reverted in py3k

On 22 Jul, 2010, at 14:01, Tarek Ziadé wrote: > Note that I'll revert Doc/distutils as well, but I need to check first > with Ronald a few Mac OS X points. Not just a few point, the revert completely broke universal builds on OSX. I'm working on a fix. Ronald > ___

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

2010/7/23 Stefan Behnel > stefan brunthaler, 23.07.2010 08:48: > > If we take for instance the BINARY_ADD instruction, the interpreter >> evaluates the actual operand types and chooses the matching operation >> implementation at runtime, i.e., operands that are unicode strings >> will be concaten

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

> This sounds like wpython (a CPython derivative with a wider set of byte code > commands) could benefit from it. > I am aware of the wpython project of Cesare di Mauro. I change the instruction format from bytecode to wordcode, too (because it allows for more efficient instruction decoding). Contr

Re: [Python-Dev] versioned .so files for Python 3.2

On 22 Jul, 2010, at 15:40, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > Abstract > > > PEP 3147 [1]_ described an extension to Python's import machinery that > improved the sharing of Python source code, by allowing more than one > byte compilation file (.pyc) to be co-located with each source file. > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 optimizations...

stefan brunthaler, 23.07.2010 08:48: I guess it would be a good idea to quickly outline my inline caching approach, so that we all have a basic understanding of how it works. Yes, that certainly makes it easier to discuss. If we take for instance the BINARY_ADD instruction, the interpreter e