or "antigravity",
but those are now old (both introduced before 2010). When was the last time
a clever easter egg was introduced or an April Fool's Day joke played?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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us where to post that question. The fragmented
community means you stand a greater chance of guessing wrong and have it
not be seen by anyone who can help.
Just my 2¢
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pportunity" to buy boosts (or
whatever). What's up with that? Do we really need yet another place
full of overlapping discussion channels?
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I have a perhaps stupid question. Is Discord the same as
discuss.python.org, just by another name? I find the similarity in
names a bit confusing.
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hreaded clients.
>
Don't forget that used to be the case. ;-)
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referring more broadly
than just Python, or even Python development, though even within the Python
community it's now difficult to manage/monitor all the various discussion
sources (email, discuss, GitHub, Stack Overflow, ...)
Get off my lawn! ;-)
Skip, kinda glad he's retired now...
r continuing to subscribe is that it feeds into a
process that updates a dictionary of "common" words used by my
XKCD-936-derived password generator.
Thx,
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media
interfaces - I do more than just Python stuff online, and suspect many
other people do). Still, I understand that I am a dinosaur and the world is
changing, so I shouldn't be surprised that a meteor is approaching.
Skip
>
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On Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 12:02 PM Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
>
> As just one example, i found two interesting items in the discussion
> started by Skip about determining what modules don't have maintainers just
> downstream if this.
>
Age in snake years doesn't necessarily
isn't really associated with a particular person or
small group.
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packages, I think it
might be worthwhile to give them the chance to chime in.
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age from
> PyPI, though many people seem to skip it.)
I will point out that you quoted my entire post except for the most
important line, the one which reads:
> Just thinking out loud...
I am still thinking out loud, so keep that in mind. (Perhaps this belongs
on one of the two ideas groups, but
over unit testing,
documentation, package variations and such?
Just thinking out loud...
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Dang auto-correct... I meant "anti-tracking," in case it wasn't obvious.
Skip
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 10:19 AM Skip Montanaro
wrote:
> One thing I would mention though is people who can reproduce it check if
>> you have any extensions enabled or other tools that can
n website developers to insure their sites operate in the
face of such tools. I'm referring to common tools, Brave, DuckDuckGo
anti-teaching VPN, pihole, Firefox, etc.
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would be to fork the
existing module and publish your prototype on PyPI. Here's a PyPI module
(last updated several years ago) that purports to color traceback output:
https://pypi.org/project/colored-traceback/
(This really belongs on python-ideas, right?)
Skip
>
__
rame (1.0.something).
Part of its appeal to me at least (and to many others I think) was
that it was the anti-Perl. Perl's obfuscation wasn't in its typing. It
was elsewhere (everywhere else?). With a full-fledged type system in
place it see
ons doesn't mean
that (a) mapping the semantics of the desired declarations onto existing
syntax will be straightforward or (b) that the semantics of those
declarations will be reflected as effortlessly as it reflects runtime
semantics.
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ing on a crutch to generate complex C type
declarations. I no longer recall what it was called, but you gave it a
restricted English description of what you wanted ("function returning
pointer to function returning void pointer" or something similar) and it
spit out the necessary
Perhaps I missed it, but maybe an action item would be to add a
buildbot which configures for 15-bit PyLong digits.
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https
> Is anyone else also getting multiple subscription notices?
>
Yup. In an earlier thread (here? discuss.python.org?) I thought it was
established that someone was working on something related to Python bug
tracking in GitHub. Or something like that. I've just been deleting
these objects.
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comparisons of two constants. I suppose
sweeping up all of that into a constant expression folding/elimination
step performed on the AST and/or during peephole optimization would
cover both cases.
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mized.
So, while you could optimize expressions involving just constants, the
benefit would be exceedingly small compared to the effort to write and
maintain the optimization code.
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to the 1.19/1.21
performance differences and recommend they force install 1.19 in
non-nogil builds for testing purposes. Hopefully adding a simple note
to your README will take less time than porting your changes to numpy
1.21 and adjusting your build configs/scripts.
Skip
_
;ve somehow stumbled on some instruction mix for which the nogil VM
is much worse than the stock VM. For now, I prefer to think I'm just doing
something stupid. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.
Skip
P.S. I suppose I should have cc'd Sam when I first replied to this
thread,
Skip> 1. I use numpy arrays filled with random values, and the output array
is also a numpy array. The vector multiplication is done in a simple for
loop in my vecmul() function.
CHB> probably doesn't make a difference for this exercise, but numpy arrays
make lousy replacements for
take a look when I get a chance. Might give me the excuse I
need to wake up extra early and tag along with Dave on an early morning
bike ride.
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a huge disappointment to abandon it now. The problems faced at
this point would have been amortized over years of development if the GIL
had been removed 20 years ago. I say go for it.
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sounds like something
he might say.
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not an NNTP person (anymore), filters in Gmail (and I assume
other mail readers/apps) allow you to sequester mails into separate folders
which you can ignore if you like.
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low enterprising folks to
easily fork and reference back to the last point where the PEP 8 text did
mention Python 2.x.
(This no longer applies to me personally, as I have fully gone over to
Python 3, but at my last job there was still plenty of Python 2 code to be
had.)
Just a thought...
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ifference between the two is the user interface it seems likely the bug
might surface there as well.
The use of a VM thus provides another option as a workaround for me, though
my simple-minded label-to-line number script works as well.
Skip
>
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Py
like a piece of cake). Still, the difference between
the announced and actual line numbers of the breakpoint remains.
I disabled Python support in GDB by renaming my ~/.gdbinit file which
declares
add-auto-load-safe-path /home/skip/src/python/rvm
That had no effect either. I don't have an
r file,
Python/ceval_reg.h, which is #included in ceval.c at the desired spot.
Maybe that factors into the issue.
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s radar screen. In the meantime, to
get going again I wrote a crude script which maps the
file:function:label form to file:linenumber form. That way I can
save/restore breakpoints across GDB sessions and still avoid problems
when the offsets to specific i
I can move the actual point where GDB breaks by replacing -Og with -O0, but
it still breaks at the wrong place, just a different wrong place. If I set
a breakpoint by line number, it stops at the proper place.
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-Wno-unused-parameter
-Wno-missing-field-initializers -Wstrict-prototypes
-Werror=implicit-function-declaration -fvisibility=hidden
-I./Include/internal -I. -I./Include-DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Python/ceval.o
Python/ceval.c
I don't know if this is a GCC problem, a GDB problem, or a Skip problem. Is
th
lit I was tracking main from a development
branch in my fork, and trying — lately pretty much unsuccessfully — to
drink from the firehose of changes to the virtual machine code. It
made sense to me to keep my fork's main up-to-date with upstream/main.
Now that I have diverged to follow the 3.10 branch
hose merges are. Is that first commit
(Github (un)Dependabot) the culprit, or are all the other git merge
results also problematic?
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ain
Then I went to Github and compared my fork with python/cpython:
https://github.com/python/cpython/compare/main...smontanaro:main
It appears I might have screwed the pooch by accepting Github's recent pull
request. I'm just a gitiot. How am I supposed to know not to accept the
--help' for details.
I looked at the fast-forward stuff in 'git push --help' but couldn't
decipher what it told me, or more importantly, how it related to my
problem. It's not clear to me how python/cpython:main can be behind
smontanaro/cpython:main. I've attached my
;duck typing" than always guarding accesses? I assume that
will still have a place in the pantheon of Python type variants.
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https://m
which documents the various
arguments pro and con to short-circuit or inform future discussions. I'm
not volunteering to write it. Denis, maybe you could make a run at it.
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s in PEP 0. I'm sure this is a
trivial few git commands for those more familiar with the toolchain than I
am, but I see over 18k forks of the repository. I suspect a few people out
of that crowd will be in the same boat as me.
Thx,
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> co_lnotab has had negative deltas since 3.6.
Thanks. I'm probably misreading Objects/lnotab_notes.txt.
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my code I'm using
dis.findlinestarts() to determine the line numbers for each block. Perhaps
I should be modifying its results. OTOH, maybe it's a bug. (If that's the
consensus, I will create an issue.)
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nce it compiled out of the box, and didn't dig into it when I saw the
error. Looking now, I see a 32-bit assumption:
if (x > 0x7fff || x < (double) (long) 0x8000)
return err_ovf();
With the -m32 flag, running lib/testall.py runs to completion.
Skip
_
> If we can get a clean copy of the original sources I think we should put them
> up under the Python org on GitHub for posterity.
Did that earlier today:
https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/1734
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n't planning to rebuild the documentation, I
didn't worry too much about that. I expected to need a bunch of manual
patchwork to get back to something that would even compile.
It's nice to know that in this case, "the Internet never forgets."
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2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2]
The tests don't pass though. 1 * 1 raises an integer overflow exception:
>>> 1 * 1
Unhandled exception: run-time error: integer overflow
Stack backtrace (innermost last):
File "", line 1
I'll let someone figure that out. :-)
At any rate,
nto correct format.
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>
> Wow. Was white-space not significant in this release of Python? I see the
>> lack of indentation in the first Python programs.
>>
>
> Indentation most certainly was significant from day 0. I suspect what
> happened is that these files got busted somehow by the extrac
h the original files, a small
README file and a compile.patch file between the original code and the
runnable code.
It was a pleasant diversion for a couple hours. I was tired of shovelling
snow anyway... Thank you, Hiromi.
Skip
* Hiromi is bcc'd on this note in case he cares to comment.
s
module functionality (I'm guessing >= 50%), perhaps moving them to
test_compiler.py or something similar would be a stronger signal about
their intent.
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Guido> Maybe these lines in test_dis.py?
...
Skip> Thanks, I'll take a look. I was expecting there'd be a standalone
Skip> script somewhere. Hadn't considered that comments would be hiding
Skip> code.
Indeed, that did the trick, however... I'm a bit uncomfortabl
> Maybe these lines in test_dis.py?
> ```
> #print('expected_opinfo_jumpy = [\n ',
> #',\n '.join(map(str, _instructions)), ',\n]', sep='')
> ```
Thanks, I'll take a look. I was expecting there'd be a standalone
script somew
n manually work my way through it, but it sorta
seems like someone might have used a script to translate the output of
dis.dis(jumpy) into this list. Am I mistaken about this?
Thx,
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On Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:32 PM Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> I agree, remove Solaris support. Nobody willing to contribute seems
> interested.
>
*sniff* I spent a lot of professional time in front of SunOS and Solaris
screens. But yes, I agree. It seems time to give Solaris the bo
he first local variable on the stack is used to fill
anything in, certainly not within the block guarded by the type == NULL
expression.
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ISTER branches). I am specifically not
holding this up as a proposal for how to do this (I am largely ignorant of
many of the internal or CPython-specific aspects of the C API). Still, the
tests pass and I can start to address those fatal errors.
Skip
.
result = arg ? arg : Py_None;
Py_INCREF(result);
*(f->f_stacktop++) = result;
Thanks for the replies. I will cook up some private API in my cpython
fork. Whether or not my new vm ever sees the light of day, I think it
would be worthwhile to consider a proper API
of state in
the generator.
I think it's worse that this though, as it seems that in gen_send_ex()
it actually pushes a value onto the stack. That can't be solved by
simply adding a state attribute to the generator object struct.
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P
ceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
AttributeError: module 'sys' has no attribute '__file__'
>>> import _warnings
>>> _warnings.__file__
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
AttributeError: modu
ng
Py_CLEAR. The stack/register space is also Py_CLEAR'd when the frame
is first allocated.
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(Note that I'm not
asking for help there, just pointing out for the curious where my
busted code is.)
Thanks for both of your responses.
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typescript
Description: Binary data
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e docs give a tantalizing
suggestion:
Example of output of the Python test suite:
but I see no command line args related to running the test suite with
tracemalloc enabled.
Pointers appreciated.
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To uns
. For the
curious, I've pushed the change to my fork:
https://github.com/smontanaro/cpython/commit/318f16ff76e91e665b779e3b478a4406d0a9c0ec
As I expected, almost all the changes were in frameobject.c. The other
changes were mostly just to remove no
ot;Just run X% of the tests at random plus any which failed on
the previous run," but it's not horrible as-is. If it doesn't already
exist (implying I didn't just miss it), perhaps it could be a good
"easy" feature request for core dev novitiates.
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hange wouldn’t work.
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ideas, python-list or
python-dev. Each rejected idea could link to one or more relevant
threads in one of those lists. Not sure who should be the gatemasters
for new bad ideas.
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wer level?
Whatever the correct answer is, I suspect the same constraints should
apply to all Include/cpython/*.h files.
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s. I believe I am off and running...
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Thanks. Mirroring to my laptop now. Will discuss how to preserve it more
permanently with postmaster.
Skip
On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 4:43 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Via Twitter I got
> ftp://ftp.ntua.gr/mirror/python/search/hypermail/python-recent/, which
> has earlier python-list
Thanks all. I just pinged Ken and am going to rummage around mail.python.org
for a bit.
Skip
On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 12:10 PM Barry Warsaw wrote:
> comp.lang.python and thus python-list definitely predate Mailman. In
> fact, my earliest Python story involves seeing c.l.py creation, br
Internet never forgets. Even if my personal quest (old messages
about Rattlesnake and other alternative virtual machine projects) fails to
bear fruit, I suspect there is value in maintaining the history of the
Python language.
Thx again...
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python-dev@python.org/thread/EMH62JYFLIL5FJ3EPOKX3NKCPCO3TCPH/
Any pointers to older messages appreciated...
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d as
well or better. My more general question stands. Should PEP 7 say
something about the two? (Someone mentioned constants. Should they be
preferred over macros?)
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to current fall through).
Still, I'm not terribly worried about existing usage, especially in
stable, well-tested code. I guess I'm more wondering if a preference
for inline functions shouldn't be mentioned in PEP 7 for future
authors.
Skip
Skip
_
of macros for more than trivial use cases (constant defs,
simple one-liners) be discouraged at this point?
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hich
present a significant support burden.
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t. I will eventually need mixed language
debugging though. And, as an Emacs user, how this might play in that
sandbox is of interest.
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n Emacs user and am aware that GDB since 7.0 has
support for debugging at the Python code level. Is Emacs+GDB my best
bet? Are there any Python IDEs which support C-level breakpoints and
debugging?
Thanks,
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r.txt
Thanks, Neil. I barely remembered anything about Mercurial (not even
installed on my current device). It didn't occur to me that the
necessary precursor to that big diff might be as simple as
hg clone https://hg.python.org/sandbox/registervm/
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___
mit and am applying them oldest to
newest (against 3.3, which I think was Victor's base), correcting
issues as I go along. Still, that is going to take a good long while.
If there's an easier way to do this, I'm all ears.
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action=search&@filter=&@pagesize=50
This issue has the "easy" keyword:
https://bugs.python.org/issue19217
Are "newcomer friendly" and "easy" aimed at somewhat different targets?
Skip
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My only comment is that this belongs first on python-ideas
<https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/>.
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se who are using older
> technology. If not exclude them altogether.
Is that Git or GitHub? If the latter, more JavaScript bits or something else?
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ould be reasonable
to toss all these modules into GitHub or PyPI. Someone will want them.
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> My only complaint is that you steadfastly refuse use Guido’s time machine
> keys to make this available in 3.7.
Wait a minute, Barry. You mean you don't already have an Emacs
function to do the rewriting as a pre-save-hook?
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___
project. I
don't rightly recall if Roundup was deemed easier to modify or if
there were just people willing to step up and make the necessary
changes.
* There was a desire to eat your own dog food, and I believe Roundup
is/was written in Python. That would be much less important today.
Plenty
> I uploaded a tarfile I had on my PC to my web site:
>
> http://python.ca/nas/python/rattlesnake20010813/
>
> It seems his name doesn't appear in the readme or source but I think
> Rattlesnake was Skip Montanaro's project. I suppose my idea of
> unifying the lo
bout the list's demise, then auto-forward their message to
python-list?
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> Skip, I think you have misunderstood the point I was making. It was
> not whether the loop variable should leak out of a list comprehension.
> Rather, it was whether a local variable should, so to speak, "leak into"
> a list comprehension. And the answer is: it depen
y3 behavior as one of
those "corrections" to things which were "got wrong" in Python 1 or 2.
:-)
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t I can live with that for now.
Final follow-up. I finally got myself a workable, updateable 3.7 branch in
my fork. It looks like the asyncio issues are alsy resolved on both 3.7 and
master.
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lity of point releases.)
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> Create it from upstream? Yep! Try this:
> git checkout -b 3.7 upstream/3.7
> git push -u origin 3.7
Thanks, Chris! Didn't have to chug for too long either, just a few seconds.
S
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th that for now.
If "make distclean" is required, I suspect there is a
missing/incorrect/incomplete Make dependency somewhere. I suppose "make
distclean" is cheap enough that I should do it whenever I switch branches.
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nd
of drastic, and I will do it if that's really the only way, but this seems
like functionality Git and/or GitHub probably supports.
Thx,
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