[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-19 Thread Barney Gale
Can someone please ban Marco? Temp ban would work fine. Thanks Barney On Thu, 19 Aug 2021 at 21:24, Marco Sulla wrote: > Anyway, Cannon, don't take it personal. I accuse the entire system, > the whole CoC council. > > Indeed I was also fired some times ago from the python-ideas list: > >

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-19 Thread Marco Sulla
Anyway, Cannon, don't take it personal. I accuse the entire system, the whole CoC council. Indeed I was also fired some times ago from the python-ideas list: https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-id...@python.org/message/KV4K4KS4MYTP5T5W5XKZYENGHCJYWOFR/ The reasons?

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-18 Thread Marco Sulla
On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 at 21:31, Brett Cannon wrote: > I rarely correct people about this, but it's actually Dr. Cannon; if you're > going to insult me, please use the proper title at least. Quoting Pulp Fiction, are you a woman? I think not, so Mr. Cannon is not incorrect. Also my title is Dr.

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-18 Thread Brett Cannon
This is what I get for checking my email while I have pneumonia ... On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 1:25 PM Marco Sulla wrote: > On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 22:30, Marco Sulla > wrote: > > Oh, this is enough. The sense of the phrase was very clear and you all > > have understood it. Remarking grammatical

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-18 Thread Brandt Bucher
Marco Sulla wrote: > I remember the BDFL said in a post […] Really trying not to get involved, but for anybody still reading: Marco is seriously misquoting somebody here. The actual quote is “too many cooks”.

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-18 Thread Edwin Zimmerman
Marco, please calm down.  Your angry emails are not helping you in any way.  Everyone on this list has had the experience of being misunderstood.  It is part of being alive.  There is much more to be gained by leaving your anger aside and working constructively towards your goal.  Please,

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-18 Thread Marco Sulla
The silly mistake you all have made is to blame my English error and not the unacceptable behaviour of Steven. The fact I was really angry with Steven was really clear, since all have replied to this. And someone declassed to "sarcasm" the insinuation of Steven. And I've done examples to make it

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-18 Thread Steve Holden
Your inflated sense of your own significance is unfortunate, since it appears to prohibit you from considering the possibility you might have made a rather silly mistake here, and one which is calculated to move you further away from your stated goals. Kind regards, Steve On Tue, Aug 17, 2021

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-17 Thread Marco Sulla
My time is short, so thank you for focusing on the real subject. On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 at 11:00, Jeff Allen wrote: > I have spent a lot of time reading typeobject.c over the years I've been > looking at an alternative implementation. It's quite difficult to follow, and > full of tweaks for

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-17 Thread Marco Sulla
On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 22:30, Marco Sulla wrote: > Oh, this is enough. The sense of the phrase was very clear and you all > have understood it. Remarking grammatical errors is a gross violation > of the Netiquette. I ask __immediately__ the intervent of a moderator, > even if I quite sure, since

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-16 Thread Brett Cannon
On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 2:55 PM Marco Sulla wrote: > On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 23:33, Tim Peters > wrote:ople have said now, including me, they had no idea what > > you meant.by "I pretend your immediate excuses". It's not a complaint > > that it's expressed inelegantly, but that they can't make

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-16 Thread Jeff Allen
On 06/08/2021 20:29, Marco Sulla wrote: I've done an answer on SO about why subclassing `dict` makes the subclass so much slower than `dict`. The answer is interesting: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/59912147/why-does-subclassing-in-python-slow-things-down-so-much What do you think

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-16 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 5:44 PM Federico Salerno wrote: > > "Pretendere" in Italian means "to demand", it's a false friend with the > English "pretend". I don't know whether Marco is Italian (the false > friend might also be there between Spanish or whatever other romance > language he speaks and

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-16 Thread Jeff Allen
On 16/08/2021 08:41, Federico Salerno wrote: "Pretendere" in Italian means "to demand", it's a false friend with the English "pretend". I don't know whether Marco is Italian (the false friend might also be there between Spanish or whatever other romance language he speaks and English, for all

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-16 Thread Federico Salerno
"Pretendere" in Italian means "to demand", it's a false friend with the English "pretend". I don't know whether Marco is Italian (the false friend might also be there between Spanish or whatever other romance language he speaks and English, for all I know). From a native Italian speaker's

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-16 Thread David Mertz, Ph.D.
I also haven't the faintest idea what might be intended by the phrase "I pretend your immediate excuses". But whatever the intention, it is clear Marco has veered off into angry ranting territory. Him taking a couple weeks away from this list would be an extremely good idea. On Sun, Aug 15,

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Marco Sulla
On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 at 03:15, Tim Peters wrote: > You think Steven was indirectly accusing you of unethical behavior > (trolling for StackOverflow upvotes)?. That's not the sense I got from > his original reply, but I can understand it if you did. If that's your > complaint, I'll leave it to

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Tim Peters
[Marco Sulla ] > I repeat, even the worst AI will understand from the context what I > meant. Amazingly enough, the truth value of a proposition does not increase via repetition ;-) >>> bool(True * 1_000_000_000) True >>> bool(False * 1_000_000_000) False > But let me do a very rude example: >

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread MRAB
On 2021-08-15 22:50, Marco Sulla wrote: On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 23:33, Tim Peters wrote:ople have said now, including me, they had no idea what you meant.by "I pretend your immediate excuses". It's not a complaint that it's expressed inelegantly, but that they can't make _any_ sense of it. By

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 7:56 AM Marco Sulla wrote: > > On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 23:33, Tim Peters > wrote:ople have said now, including me, they had no idea what > > you meant.by "I pretend your immediate excuses". It's not a complaint > > that it's expressed inelegantly, but that they can't make

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Marco Sulla
I make an example: what if I said to you that you want, with your response, only endear Tim? Is it for you sarcastic or a subtle insinuation? ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Marco Sulla
On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 23:58, Irit Katriel wrote: > The reality, Marco, is that this list is for discussions about python > development, not for seeking help with understanding python. > It is not appropriate to "ask for help" on this list, and you are not > entitled to a reply within X working

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
This is the source of this whole misunderstanding: On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 9:34 PM Marco Sulla wrote: > > I asked for help, because I didn't know __nothing__ about what Monica > replied to me in the SO answer. And you say to me my post seems spam? > > [snipped] > And you continue to mark my

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Marco Sulla
On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 23:33, Tim Peters wrote:ople have said now, including me, they had no idea what > you meant.by "I pretend your immediate excuses". It's not a complaint > that it's expressed inelegantly, but that they can't make _any_ sense > of it. By my count, this is at least the second

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Tim Peters
[Marco Sulla ] > It's the Netiquette, Chris. It's older than Internet. It's a gross > violation of the Netiquette remarking grammatical or syntactical > errors. I think that also the least advanced AI will understand what I > meant. As multiple people have said now, including me, they had no idea

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Marco Sulla
On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 23:12, Tim Peters wrote: > > [Marco Sulla ] > > Oh, this is enough. The sense of the phrase was very clear and you all > > have understood it. > > Sincerely, I have no idea what "I pretend your immediate excuses." > means, in or out of context. > > > Remarking grammatical

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Marco Sulla
It's the Netiquette, Chris. It's older than Internet. It's a gross violation of the Netiquette remarking grammatical or syntactical errors. I think that also the least advanced AI will understand what I meant. I think anyway that now the sense of my request is __very clear__. I ask the

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Tim Peters
[Marco Sulla ] > Oh, this is enough. The sense of the phrase was very clear and you all > have understood it. Sincerely, I have no idea what "I pretend your immediate excuses." means, in or out of context. > Remarking grammatical errors is a gross violation > of the Netiquette. I ask

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 6:36 AM Marco Sulla wrote: > > As Chris implied, the second 'sentence' is not grammatical English > > Oh, this is enough. The sense of the phrase was very clear and you all > have understood it. Remarking grammatical errors is a gross violation > of the Netiquette. I ask

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Marco Sulla
Furthermore, I have 13k points of reputation on SO. They are also too much for me. I don't need dirty tricks to raise them. So I __pretend__ excuses from Steven, if it is a man. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Marco Sulla
On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 21:30, Terry Reedy wrote: I opened the bug https://bugs.python.org/issue44921 . Anyway, this does not change the insinuation I got here. > In any case, drop this tread, which started off wrongly. This thread will be dropped when Steven will give me the excuses for the

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Terry Reedy
SUMMARY: If you, Marco, want to get dicts subclasses made faster and you seriously think that they can be, open a proper issue on bugs.python.org., as I describe in 3 below. In any case, drop this tread, which started off wrongly. August 6, in response to the weekly post, Summary of Python

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 12:24 AM Marco Sulla wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 12:54, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > Are you looking for upvotes on StackOverflow > > This is unacceptable. I pretend your immediate excuses. > ? I don't understand this, what do you mean? ChrisA

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-15 Thread Marco Sulla
On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 12:54, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Are you looking for upvotes on StackOverflow This is unacceptable. I pretend your immediate excuses. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-12 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 08:26:47AM +0200, Marco Sulla wrote: > No ideas? Excuse me for the up. Perhaps you can be more concrete in what you expect from this mailing list. Are you looking for upvotes on StackOverflow (or however it works there)? Or for some core dev to acknowledge that your

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-12 Thread Paul Moore
Has anyone raised this on bugs.python.org? That's the best way to get something like this looked at, not via a post on Stack Overflow. The SO posting didn't include a bpo link. Paul On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 07:33, Marco Sulla wrote: > > No ideas? Excuse me for the up. > > On Fri, 6 Aug 2021 at

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

2021-08-12 Thread Marco Sulla
No ideas? Excuse me for the up. On Fri, 6 Aug 2021 at 21:29, Marco Sulla wrote: > > I've done an answer on SO about why subclassing `dict` makes the > subclass so much slower than `dict`. The answer is interesting: > >