At 01:34 PM 4/22/2006 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 10:51 AM 4/21/2006 -0400, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 07:31:35PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
fit the new definition. So we settled on calling them context managers
instead.
...
method. Instead, the new term
Neal Norwitz wrote:
Right - they have been there ever since I started (in fact, I started
this entire project *because* of these warnings). You can get them on
x86, too, if you enable /Wp64.
In case it wasn't clear, the /Wp64 flag is available in icc (Intel's C
compiler).
It still isn't
On 4/21/06, Martin v. Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Neal Norwitz wrote:
Right - they have been there ever since I started (in fact, I started
this entire project *because* of these warnings). You can get them on
x86, too, if you enable /Wp64.
In case it wasn't clear, the /Wp64 flag is
At 01:34 PM 4/22/2006 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Then why didn't you speak up when the discussion was summarised in PEP 343
for
Guido's approval? I said it explicitly:
...
That may have been what you personally thought, but it's not what the PEP
said.
By the way, Greg Ewing coined the term
At 12:22 AM 4/22/2006 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
Why can't you remove the heuristic and screen-scrape info-search code
from the easy_install client and run one spider that would check
new/revised PyPI entries, search for missing info, insert it into PyPI when
found (and mark the entry eggified), or
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 12:22 AM 4/22/2006 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
Why can't you remove the heuristic and screen-scrape info-search code
from the easy_install client and run one spider that would check
new/revised PyPI entries, search for missing info, insert it into PyPI when
found (and
Alex Martelli wrote:
I see redo Decimal in C (possibly with the addition of some fast
elementary transcendentals) and enhance operations on longs
(multiplication first and foremost, and base-conversions probably
next, as you suggested -- possibly with the addition of some fast
number-theoretical
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
If you have a problem with what I did to the PEP, kindly take it up with
Guido. If you have a problem with the documentation I took the time to
write and contribute, by all means change it. At this point, I'm
getting pretty tired of people of accusing me of violating
On 4/22/06, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
*This* is what Guido approved, not what is currently written up in the PEP on
python.org.
Nick, please get unstuck on the who said what when and who wasn't
listening thing. I want this to be resolved to use the clearest
terminology possible. As
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
The problem isn't fundamentally a technical one, but a social one. You can
effect social change through technology, but not by being some random guy
with a nagging 'bot.
Seriously, though, posting Cheesecake scores (which include ratings for
findability of code, use
Terry Reedy wrote:
1. Based on comments on c.l.py, the biggest legitimate fact-based (versus
personal-taste-based) knock again Python versus, in particular, Perl is the
lack of a CPAN-like facility. As I remember, there have even been a few
people say something like I like Python the
On 4/22/06, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Terry Reedy wrote:
1. Based on comments on c.l.py, the biggest legitimate fact-based (versus
personal-taste-based) knock again Python versus, in particular, Perl is the
lack of a CPAN-like facility. As I remember, there have even been a
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Leaving aside the Perl vs. Py thing, opinions on CPAN seem to be
diverse -- yes, I've heard people say that this is something that
Python sorely lacks; but I've also heard from more than one person
that CPAN sucks from a quality perspective. So I think we shouldn't
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
So, if anything is clear from all this, it's that nothing has ever been
particularly clear in all this. :)
Or more precisely, I think everybody has been perfectly clear, we just
haven't really gotten on the same page about which words mean what. ;)
+1 QOTT (Quote
Ian Bicking wrote:
For instance, if you really want to be confident about how your libraries
are layed out, this script is the most reliable way:
http://peak.telecommunity.com/dist/virtual-python.py
note the use of this script is the most reliable way, not something
like this script, or you
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Nick, please get unstuck on the who said what when and who wasn't
listening thing. I want this to be resolved to use the clearest
terminology possible.
which probably means that the words context and manager shouldn't
be used at all ;-)
space and potato, perhaps?
On 4/22/06, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Alternatively, I could have a go at clearing it up for next week's alpha2, and
we can ask Anthony to make an explicit request for review of those docs in the
announcement. . .
I've just had a *very* quick scan through the 2.5a1 documentation. I
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Nick, please get unstuck on the who said what when and who wasn't
listening thing.
Sorry about that. I was just trying to figure out how we got to where we are.
I stopped paying close attention to PEP 343 developments a few months back,
and
Hi,
Over on the pythonmac-sig list we're getting close a new set of icons
based on the new python.org logo. What would be needed to get these
icons into the python distribution? Does the author of these icons
need to donate them to the PSF or is there some other procedure?
Ronald
Paul Moore wrote:
On 4/22/06, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Alternatively, I could have a go at clearing it up for next week's alpha2,
and
we can ask Anthony to make an explicit request for review of those docs in
the
announcement. . .
I've just had a *very* quick scan through
On 4/22/06, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I'm going to express my gratitude by asking you to read the same docs all
over again in a few days time :)
No problem. Remind me if I forget...
I'll be making a pass through the docs (and PEP) this weekend using the
definitions:
- a
Paul Moore wrote:
Presumably, then, my proposal didn't make things clear to you?
As Phillip said, I'm probably way too close to this to be a good judge of how
understandable the terminology is. I just want to make one more attempt before
admitting defeat. . .
Cheers,
Nick.
--
Nick Coghlan
On 4/22/06, Ronald Oussoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Over on the pythonmac-sig list we're getting close a new set of icons
based on the new python.org logo. What would be needed to get these
icons into the python distribution? Does the author of these icons
need to donate them to the PSF or
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
[...]
Python sorely lacks; but I've also heard from more than one person
that CPAN sucks from a quality perspective. So I think we shouldn't
[...]
(as for the CPAN quality, any public repository will end up being full
of crap;
I was actually referring to the quality of the code.
On 4/22/06, John J Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
[...]
Python sorely lacks; but I've also heard from more than one person
that CPAN sucks from a quality perspective. So I
On 20-apr-2006, at 23:46, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Bob Ippolito wrote:
'There are several binary formats that embody eggs, but the most
common
is '.egg' zipfile format, because it's a convenient one for
distributing
projects.'
'.egg files are a zero installation format for a Python
At 12:34 PM 4/22/2006 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Leaving aside the Perl vs. Py thing, opinions on CPAN seem to be
diverse -- yes, I've heard people say that this is something that
Python sorely lacks; but I've also heard from more than one person
that CPAN sucks
I've been following the with/context discussion, not that closely, but
reading all the posts. I also have to write docs on this for Python for
Dummies, which I think is going to be the first book out after 2.5. So
far, my take is that I want the block of code to be executed in a
context. I'm
At 09:05 AM 4/22/2006 -0700, Aahz wrote:
I've been following the with/context discussion, not that closely, but
reading all the posts. I also have to write docs on this for Python for
Dummies, which I think is going to be the first book out after 2.5. So
far, my take is that I want the block of
At 12:34 PM 4/22/2006 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Ian Bicking wrote:
For instance, if you really want to be confident about how your libraries
are layed out, this script is the most reliable way:
http://peak.telecommunity.com/dist/virtual-python.py
note the use of this script is the most
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 09:05 AM 4/22/2006 -0700, Aahz wrote:
I've been following the with/context discussion, not that closely, but
reading all the posts. I also have to write docs on this for Python for
Dummies, which I think is going to be the first book out after 2.5.
At 09:25 AM 4/22/2006 -0700, Aahz wrote:
EXPRESSION returns a value that the with statement uses to create a
context (a special kind of namespace). The context is used to
execute the BLOCK. The block might end normally, get terminated by
a break or return, or raise an
At 05:41 PM 4/22/2006 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 12:22 AM 4/22/2006 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
Why can't you remove the heuristic and screen-scrape info-search code
from the easy_install client and run one spider that would check
new/revised PyPI entries, search for missing
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
(frankly, do you think there's any experienced developer out there
whos first thought when asked the question how do I create a tightly
controlled Python environment isn't either can I solve this by tweaking
sys.path in my application? or disk space is cheap, bugs are
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Leaving aside the Perl vs. Py thing, opinions on CPAN seem to be
diverse -- yes, I've heard people say that this is something that
Python sorely lacks; but I've also heard from more than one person
that CPAN sucks from a quality perspective. So I think we shouldn't
What with all the discussion that resulted from setuptools, we should
probably also discuss the suggestion to add wsgiref to the standard
library. PEP 356 doesn't have many details about what's under consideration.
(wsgiref is an implementation of the WSGI interface defined in PEP 333.
I believe
On 4/22/06, A.M. Kuchling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What with all the discussion that resulted from setuptools, we should
probably also discuss the suggestion to add wsgiref to the standard
library. PEP 356 doesn't have many details about what's under consideration.
(wsgiref is an
Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
As Phillip pointed out, we need input from people that haven't been
intimately
involved in the PEP 343 discussions
OK, here is my attempt to cut the knot.
To me, 'context' and 'context manager' can be seen as near
Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Leaving aside the Perl vs. Py thing, opinions on CPAN seem to be
diverse -- yes, I've heard people say that this is something that
Python sorely lacks; but I've also heard from more than one person
that CPAN sucks
Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 05:41 PM 4/22/2006 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
I'm not sure that's what Terry meant - I took it to mean *make the spider
part of PyPI itself*.
Which would also be accomplished by using Grig's Cheesecake tool, since
At 08:12 PM 4/22/2006 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
If my premises above are mistaken, then the suggestions should be modified
or discarded. However, I don't see how they conflict at all with a
consumer rating system.
My point was simply that providing rapid, visible feedback to authors
results in
Ronald Oussoren wrote:
On 20-apr-2006, at 23:46, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
So if this attitude (Python Eggs are the preferred binary distribution
format) is wrong, it is the attitude that has to change first. Changes
to the documentation follow from that. If the attitude is right, I'll
have to
[19 Apr 2006, Neal Norwitz]
test_cmd_line leaked [0, 17, -17] references
test_filecmp leaked [0, 13, 0] references
test_threading_local leaked [-93, 0, 0] references
test_urllib2 leaked [-121, 88, 99] references
Thanks to Thomas digging into test_threading_local, I checked in what
appeared
[Andrew MacIntyre]
I doubt it has anything to do with this issue, but I just thought I'd
mention something strange I've encountered on Windows XP Pro (SP2) at
work.
If Python terminates due to an uncaught exception, with stdout stderr
redirected externally (ie within the batch file that
On Sunday 23 April 2006 11:43, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Maybe we need something that's the equivalent of alien (rpm - dpkg
converter), so that given an egg, one can easily get a native
installer for that egg.
An 'eggconvert' that used the existing bdist_foo machinery to build
system specific
At 01:19 PM 4/23/2006 +1000, Anthony Baxter wrote:
On Sunday 23 April 2006 11:43, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Maybe we need something that's the equivalent of alien (rpm - dpkg
converter), so that given an egg, one can easily get a native
installer for that egg.
An 'eggconvert' that used the
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 09:25 AM 4/22/2006 -0700, Aahz wrote:
EXPRESSION returns a value that the with statement uses to create a
context (a special kind of namespace). The context is used to
execute the BLOCK. The block might end normally, get terminated by
a break or
Anthony Baxter wrote:
On Sunday 23 April 2006 11:43, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Maybe we need something that's the equivalent of alien (rpm - dpkg
converter), so that given an egg, one can easily get a native
installer for that egg.
An 'eggconvert' that used the existing bdist_foo machinery to
Hi, this is my first python dev post, so please forgive me if this topic has already been discussed.It seemed to me that removing me_hash from a dict entry would save 2/3 of the space used by dictionaries and also improve alignment of the entries since they'd be 8 bytes instead of 12. And sets end
For those not following along at home, I've now updated PEP 343 to clarify my
originally intended meanings for various terms, and to record the fact that we
don't currently have a consensus on python-dev that those are the right
definitions.
As written up in the PEP, I plan to propagate those
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