Re: [Python-Dev] Any reason that any()/all() do not take a predicateargument?

2006-04-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Bill Janssen wrote: Yeah, but you can't do more complicated expressions that way, like any(lambda x: x[3] == thiskey) Not /quite/ sure what this is intended to mean, but most likely, you meant any(x[3]==thiskey for x in seq) I think it makes a lot of sense for any and all to

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_Finalize does not release all memory, not even closely

2006-04-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Tim Peters wrote: Because new-style classes create cycles that Py_Finalize() doesn't clean up, it may make analysis easier to stick a PyGC_Collect() call (or two! repeat until it returns 0) inside the loop now. I'm shy to do this: the comment in Py_Finalize suggests that things will break if

Re: [Python-Dev] Preserving the blamelist

2006-04-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Tim Peters wrote: Since we're spread across time zones, I think 24 hours is a good minimum. Ok, done. If something is set to 12 hours now, doesn't look like it's working: when I wrote my msg, it showed (as I said) about 5 hours of history. Right now it shows only about 3 hrs, from Sat 15

Re: [Python-Dev] need info for externally maintained modules PEP

2006-04-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Brett Cannon wrote: Basically, from all the replies I have gotten has said that package that were/are externally maintained either considers Python HEAD as the current version or watches checkins and the bug tracker and thus the PEP is really not needed. So unless some package steps forward

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_Finalize does not release all memory, not even closely

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Tim Peters wrote: Putting a collection call inside an initialize/finalize loop isn't doing it late, it's doing it early. If we can't collect cyclic trash after Py_Initialize(), that would be a showstopper for apps embedding Python in a loop! There's either nothing to fear here, or Python

Re: [Python-Dev] windows buildbot failures

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Neal Norwitz wrote: If the patch won't fix the problem, is there something else we can do to ensure the python DLL is no longer used regardless of whether the previous test passed or not? Rebooting the machine will help, and might be the only cure. It's Windows, after all :-( Of course, we

Re: [Python-Dev] windows buildbot failures

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Tim Peters wrote: 2. The buildbot code tries to kill the process itself. It appears (to judge from the buildbot messges) that this never works on Windows. 3. For reasons that are still unknown, python_d.exe keeps running, and forever. It's actually not too surprising that

Re: [Python-Dev] [C++-sig] GCC version compatibility

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
David Abrahams wrote: I just wanted to write to encourage some Python developers to look at (and accept!) Christoph's patch. This is really crucial for smooth interoperability between C++ and Python. I did, and accepted the patch. If there is anything left to be done, please submit another

[Python-Dev] Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS around readdir()?

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Currently, the readdir() call releases the GIL. I believe this is not thread-safe, because readdir() does not need to be re-entrant; we should use readdir_r where available to get a thread-safe version. Comments? Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS around readdir()?

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ronald Oussoren wrote: AFAIK readdir is only unsafe when multiple threads use the same DIR* at the same time. The spec[1] seems to agree with me. [1] : http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/readdir.html What specific sentence makes you think so? I see The readdir() interface

Re: [Python-Dev] windows buildbot failures

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
OTOH, we could just as well check in an executable that does all that, e.g. like the one in I did something like this: I checked the source of a kill_python.exe application which looks at all running processes and tries to kill python_d.exe. After several rounds of experimentation, this now was

Re: [Python-Dev] [ python-Patches-790710 ] breakpoint command lists in pdb

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Grégoire Dooms wrote: What should I do to get it reviewed further ? (perhaps just this : posting to python-dev :-) It didn't help that much, except for keeping your mail in my inbox. In any case, I went back to it and checked it in. Regards, Martin

Re: [Python-Dev] FishEye on Python CVS Repository

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Peter Moore wrote: I'm responsible for setting up free FishEye hosting for community projects. As a long time python user I of course added Python up front. You can see it here: http://fisheye.cenqua.com/viewrep/python/ Can you please move that to the subversion repository

Re: [Python-Dev] problem installing current cvs - TabError

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Anthony Baxter wrote: There's a scripts Tools/scripts/reindent.py - put it somewhere on your PATH and run it before checkin, like reindent.py -r Lib. It means Tim or I don't have to run it for you wink As I kept forgetting what the name, location, and command line options of that script are, I

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS around readdir()?

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ronald Oussoren wrote: A couple of lines down it says: The pointer returned by readdir() points to data which may be overwritten by another call to readdir() on the same directory stream. This data is not overwritten by another call to readdir() on a different directory stream. This

Re: [Python-Dev] windows buildbot failures

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Tim Peters wrote: No, what's surprising is that it keeps running _forever_. This isn't Unix, and, e.g., a defunct child process doesn't sit around waiting for its parent to reap it. Why doesn't the leftover python_d.exe complete running the test suite, and then go away all by itself? It

Re: [Python-Dev] How to make _sre.c compile w/ C++?

2006-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if (b == 1) { -literal = sre_literal_template(ptr, n); + literal = sre_literal_template((SRE_CHAR *)ptr, n); } else { #if defined(HAVE_UNICODE) -literal = sre_uliteral_template(ptr, n); +

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r45505 - python/trunk/Modules/posixmodule.c

2006-04-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Also, I suggest to use None as the return value for no value Martin available; it might be that the configured value is an empty Martin string (in which case confstr returns 1). I'll work on all of this. Are you sure you want the API to change?

Re: [Python-Dev] setuptools in the stdlib ( r45510 - python/trunk/Lib/pkgutil.py python/trunk/Lib/pydoc.py)

2006-04-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Fredrik Lundh wrote: it's still listed under possible additions in the release PEP, and there don't seem to be a PEP or any other easily located document that explains exactly how it works, what's required from library developers, how it affects existing toolchains, etc. is this really

Re: [Python-Dev] Raising objections

2006-04-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Gerhard Häring wrote: Speaking of which, what about SVN commit privileges for me? Send me your key, and I'll add you. I assume 'gerhard.haering' would work as the commit name? Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Raising objections

2006-04-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Greg Ewing wrote: I started refactoring some of the ugliness out of the internals of distutils last year, but was completely stymied by the demand that no existing setup.py scripts be broken. Instead of trying to fix distutils, maybe it would be better to start afresh with a new package

Re: [Python-Dev] Raising objections

2006-04-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Anthony Baxter wrote: It is *precisely* my concern that this happens. For whatever reason, writing packaging-and-deployment software is totally unsexy. This is why setuptools is a one-man show, and this is why the original distutils authors ran away after they convinced everybody that

Re: [Python-Dev] Raising objections

2006-04-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Anthony Baxter wrote: And I would reply that sometimes a rewrite is necessary. I doubt firefox would be at the state it is today if it was still based on the ancient netscape codebase. It's off-topic here certainly: but firefox is actually not a complete rewrite; it still has tons of

Re: [Python-Dev] Raising objections

2006-04-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Anthony Baxter wrote: I'm not sure how people would prefer this be handled. I don't think we need to have a PEP for it - I don't see PEPs for ctypes, elementtree, pysqlite or cProfile, either. I see a significant procedural difference between what happened for ctypes, elementtree, and

Re: [Python-Dev] setuptools in 2.5.

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Anthony Baxter wrote: And now let's look at some of the stuff that setuptools gives us: - We have a CPAN-type system I think it is unfair (to Richard Jones) to attribute this to setuptools. We already have a CPAN-type system: the Cheeseshop. What setuptools adds is roughly the CPAN shell

Re: [Python-Dev] Raising objections

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Greg Ewing wrote: I'm not sure whether distutils is really that badly broken. But an earlier poster seemed to be saying that he had great difficulty finding anything that could be changed without breaking something that someone relied on. It's hard to fix something if you can't change it at

Re: [Python-Dev] setuptools in the stdlib ([Python-checkins] r45510 - python/trunk/Lib/pkgutil.py python/trunk/Lib/pydoc.py)

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby wrote: I assumed that it would be more controversial to merge setuptools into distutils, than to provide it as an enhanced alternative. It is this assumption in setuptools that seems to have guided many design decisions: that it is completely unacceptable to change

Re: [Python-Dev] magic in setuptools (Was: setuptools in the stdlib)

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I don't understand it. Have you read the manuals? You mean, http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools Yes, I did. However, this would only enable me to use it (should I ever find a need). What I really need to understand is how all this stuff works inside. Now, I haven't actually

Re: [Python-Dev] setuptools in 2.5.

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Anthony Baxter wrote: Not without a lot of the other stuff that's in setuptools. That is says from itself that it is version 0.7a1dev-r45536 doesn't help to reduce that fear. It's had _two_ _years_ of quite active development, so the version number of 0.7 is hardly a good indication. As

Re: [Python-Dev] New-style icons, .desktop file

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Fredrik Lundh wrote: you do wonderful stuff, and then you post the announcement as a followup to a really old message, to make sure that people using a threaded reader only stumbles upon this by accident... this should be on the python.org frontpage! I also wonder what the actions should be

Re: [Python-Dev] Raising objections

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby wrote: How much any of that could have also applied to the distutils at one time, I don't know. My point is merely that setuptools has enough commercial value to make me believe that sponsorship for features shouldn't be that hard to come by, and there are certainly worse

Re: [Python-Dev] magic in setuptools (Was: setuptools in the stdlib)

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Anthony Baxter wrote: 4. .egg files. -1 As far as I understand it, an egg file is just a zipimport format zip file with some additional metadata. You can also install the egg files in an unpacked way, if you prefer that. I don't understand the objection here - it's no better or worse

Re: [Python-Dev] magic in setuptools (Was: setuptools in the stdlib)

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: This is another area where API standardization is important; as soon as modules are loaded out of a zip file, the traditional approach of looking relative to os.path.dirname(__file__) no longer works. Certainly. However, I get two conclusions out of this: 1. don't load

Re: [Python-Dev] windows buildbot failures

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Jérôme Laheurte wrote: Sorry I'm late, but something like os.popen('taskkill.exe /F /IM python_d.exe') would have worked; we use this at work. Thanks, I didn't know about it. Is it available on Windows 2000, too? (because the system in question is Windows 2000, and I see it on a What's new in

Re: [Python-Dev] magic in setuptools (Was: setuptools in the stdlib)

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Bob Ippolito wrote: They DO NOT compete any more than source packages do. eggs are packages plus metadata, nothing more. What eggs do and what rpm/msi/deb does are orthogonal. It's entirely reasonable that in the future rpm/msi/deb will simply be a delivery mechanism for eggs. That might

Re: [Python-Dev] magic in setuptools (Was: setuptools in the stdlib)

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ronald Oussoren wrote: As far as I understand the issues they compete up to a point, but should also make it easier to create platform packages that contain proper the proper dependencies because those are part of machine-readable meta-data instead of being written down in readme files. Oddly

Re: [Python-Dev] magic in setuptools (Was: setuptools in the stdlib)

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Greg Ewing wrote: The resources name is actually quite a common meme; I believe it goes back to the original Macintosh, which was the first and only computer in the world to have files with something called a resource fork. The resource fork contained pieces of data called resources. I can

Re: [Python-Dev] magic in setuptools (Was: setuptools in the stdlib)

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Bob Ippolito wrote: 'There are several binary formats that embody eggs, but the most common is '.egg' zipfile format, because it's a convenient one for distributing projects.' '.egg files are a zero installation format for a Python package;' single modules are also such a zero installation

Re: [Python-Dev] setuptools in 2.5.

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ian Bicking wrote: I don't think setuptools version requirements are enough to ensure the integrity of all pieces of a complex system will work together. Figuring out a self-consistent set of packages to work together is something that is rather independent of any particular package, and

Re: [Python-Dev] python 2.5alpha and naming schemes

2006-04-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Dennis Heuer wrote: Module names like hashlib are not python-like too (too c/lowlevel-like). I agree with Greg: hashlib is a Pythonic name for a module, just like httplib, mhlib, xmlrpclib, cookielib, contextlib, difflib, ... OTOH, it might be indeed that the ctypes name need to be aligned

Re: [Python-Dev] magic in setuptools (Was: setuptools in the stdlib)

2006-04-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ronald Oussoren wrote: That doesn't require Eggs to be single-file zipfiles; deleting a directory would work just as will (and I believe it will work with ez_install, too). Egg directories (which are basically just the same as packages using .pth files) also work for this and that's what I

Re: [Python-Dev] windows buildbot failures

2006-04-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Jérôme Laheurte wrote: Ah, no, it's only available in XP. There are some alternatives though: http://www.robvanderwoude.com/index.html Sure. Writing my own one wasn't that difficult, in the end, either (except that I overlooked that the API I used first exists in XP and later only). regards,

Re: [Python-Dev] magic in setuptools (Was: setuptools in the stdlib)

2006-04-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Greg Ewing wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: You can't blame KDE for providing mechanisms that only work in the KDE world. It's fine for Python to provide Python-specific solutions for issues that have no cross-platform native solution. Also keep in mind that we're talking about resources

Re: [Python-Dev] python 2.5alpha and naming schemes

2006-04-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Thomas Heller wrote: Personally, I *like* the ctypes name. But I'm open for suggestions, and it might have intersting consequences if the Python core package would be renamed to something else. Any suggestions? Well, my only concern was py_object. I wondered whether the py_ prefix is

Re: [Python-Dev] Visual studio 2005 express now free

2006-04-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: Microsoft just announced that Visual Studio 2005 express will be free forever, including the IDE and the optimizing C++ compiler. (Not included in the forever clause are VS 2007 or later versions.) Does this make a difference for Python development for Windows? For

Re: [Python-Dev] Win64 AMD64 (aka x64) binaries available64

2006-04-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Thomas Heller wrote: On XP (32-bit), I can compile python25.dll and python.exe for AMD64 now, after adding bufferoverflowU.lib to the linker options. On what project? There should be /GS- options on all projects that need it, which, in turn, should result in bufferoverflowU.lib not being

Re: [Python-Dev] Visual studio 2005 express now free

2006-04-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Giovanni Bajo wrote: It's been possible to compile distutils extensions with the VS 2003 toolkit for far longer than it's possible to compile Python itself: http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/mstoolkit/ Sure: with distutils modifications. In fact, it would be great if the patches provided

Re: [Python-Dev] Win64 AMD64 (aka x64) binaries available64

2006-04-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Thomas Heller wrote: I forgot to mention that there are a lot of warnings about conversion betweem Py_ssize_t to int - if you want me to fix the obvious ones I'll offer to correct some of them from time to time and commit the changes. Right - they have been there ever since I started (in

Re: [Python-Dev] Win64 AMD64 (aka x64) binaries available64

2006-04-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Neal Norwitz wrote: Right - they have been there ever since I started (in fact, I started this entire project *because* of these warnings). You can get them on x86, too, if you enable /Wp64. In case it wasn't clear, the /Wp64 flag is available in icc (Intel's C compiler). It still isn't

Re: [Python-Dev] setuptools: past, present, future

2006-04-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: Leaving aside the Perl vs. Py thing, opinions on CPAN seem to be diverse -- yes, I've heard people say that this is something that Python sorely lacks; but I've also heard from more than one person that CPAN sucks from a quality perspective. So I think we shouldn't

Re: [Python-Dev] Reducing memory overhead for dictionaries by removing me_hash

2006-04-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Kirat Singh wrote: Hi, this is my first python dev post, so please forgive me if this topic has already been discussed. To my knowledge, this hasn't been discussed before. It seemed to me that removing me_hash from a dict entry would save 2/3 of the space used by dictionaries and also

Re: [Python-Dev] Win64 AMD64 (aka x64) binaries available64

2006-04-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Anthony Baxter wrote: On Saturday 22 April 2006 15:27, Neal Norwitz wrote: In case it wasn't clear, the /Wp64 flag is available in icc (Intel's C compiler). Is it worth turning this on for the icc ubuntu buildbot? Anyone got ideas on the best way to do this? Should I just set CFLAGS=-Wp64

Re: [Python-Dev] windows buildbot failures

2006-04-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Tim Peters wrote: I've never reported this as a Python bug If you do, I'll probably add a comment like the above ;-) because I've considered the antivirus SW likely to be the culprit. Could be. FWIW, Norton AV was running during the above. I see a similar phenomenon (sp?) on XP SP2:

Re: [Python-Dev] Reducing memory overhead for dictionaries by removing me_hash

2006-04-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Kirat Singh wrote: The reason I looked into this to begin with was that my code used up a bunch of memory which was traceable to lots of little objects with instance dicts, so it seemed that if instancedicts took less memory I wouldn't have to go and add __slots__ to a bunch of my classes, or

Re: [Python-Dev] Builtin exit, good in interpreter, bad in code.

2006-04-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Sean Reifschneider wrote: Thoughts? In Python 2.5, exit(0) exits. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe:

Re: [Python-Dev] Visual studio 2005 express now free

2006-04-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Martin v. Löwis wrote: - Paul Moore has contributed a Python build procedure for the free version of the 2003 compiler. This one is without IDE, but still, it should allow people without a VS 2003 license to work on Python itself; it should also be possible to develop extensions

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed addition to threading module - released

2006-04-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: Actually, what Nick describes is *exactly* how one should write code using a condition variable: LOCK while nothing to do: UNLOCK wait for the condition variable (or sleep, or whatever) LOCK # here we have something to do with the lock held

Re: [Python-Dev] Visual studio 2005 express now free

2006-04-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Neil Hodgson wrote: I expect Microsoft means that Visual Studio Express will be available free forever, not that you will always be able to download Visual Studio 2005 Express. They normally only provide a particular product version for a limited time after it has been superceded. Sure:

Re: [Python-Dev] Visual studio 2005 express now free

2006-04-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Alex Martelli wrote: For the Toolkit 2003: http://tinyurl.com/gv8wr When I go to this URL, I get redirected to http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=272BE09D-40BB-4displaylang=en This doesn't look right - it ought to be a UUID. Anyway, I get a page that reads The download

Re: [Python-Dev] Visual studio 2005 express now free

2006-04-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
John J Lee wrote: Actually, it's apparently still there, just at a different URL. Somebody posted the new URL on c.l.py a day or two back (Alex Martelli started the thread, IIRC). I'm off to the dentist, no time to Google for it! Please do. If you find the URL, please post it here. All URLs

Re: [Python-Dev] gettext.py bug #1448060

2006-04-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Sylvain Thénault wrote: I've posted a patch (#1475523) for this and assigned it to Martin Von Loewis since he was the core developper who has made some followup on the original bug. Could someone (Martin or someone else) quick review this patch ? I really need a fix for this, so if anyone

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed addition to threading module - released

2006-04-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Tim Peters wrote: Does with cv: work to replace the outer (== only) acquire/try/finally/release dance? Indeed it does - although implemented in a somewhat convoluted way: A lock *is* a context (or is that context manager), i.e. it implements def __context__(self): return self

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed addition to threading module - released

2006-04-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: Tim is right, the UNLOCK/LOCK part is implied in the wait() call. However, the wait() implementation really *does* provide a use case for the primitive operation that Nick proposed, and it can't be refactored to remove the pattern Martin disapproves of (though of

Re: [Python-Dev] PY_FORMAT_SIZE_T warnings on OS X

2006-04-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Brett Cannon wrote: I created patch 1474907 with a fix for it. Checks if %zd works for size_t and if so sets PY_FORMAT_SIZE_T to z, otherwise just doesn't set the macro def. Assigned to Martin to make sure I didn't foul it up, but pretty much anyone could probably double-check it.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 304 (Was: Addressing Outstanding PEPs)

2006-04-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Should be closed/rejected. [...] Neal S 304 Controlling Generation of Bytecode Files Montanaro Probably ditto. Rejected would be a wrong description, IMO; withdrawn describes it better. It's not that the feature is undesirable or the specific

Re: [Python-Dev] Accessing DLL objects from other DLLs

2006-04-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Michael Hearne wrote: If I want to keep these classes as distinct modules, but retain this kind of module interdependency, how can I architect this with Python? Please understand that python-dev is for discussions about the development *of* Python, not for the development *with* Python. Use

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping __init__.py requirement for subpackages

2006-04-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby wrote: My counter-proposal: to be considered a package, a directory must contain at least one module (which of course can be __init__). This allows the is it a package? question to be answered with only one directory read, as is the case now. Think of it also as a nudge in

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping __init__.py requirement for subpackages

2006-04-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby wrote: At 11:50 AM 4/26/2006 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by one directory read. You'd have to list the entire directory, which may require reading more than one block if the directory is large. You have to do this to find an __init__.py too,

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping __init__.py requirement for subpackages

2006-04-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Phillip J. Eby wrote: I assume you want import x.y to fail if y is an empty directory (or non-empty, but without .py files). I don't see a value in implementing such a restriction. No, I'm saying that tools which are looking for packages and asking, Is this directory a package? should

Re: [Python-Dev] inheriting basic types more efficiently

2006-04-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Dennis Heuer wrote: The reason why I'd like to use the long type as the base of my bitarray type is that the long type is already implemented as an array and working efficiently with large amounts of bytes. This is wrong; you are mixing up the is-a and has-a relationships. While it might be

Re: [Python-Dev] New-style icons, .desktop file

2006-04-27 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Simon Dahlbacka wrote: OTOH, the ETA for Vista is just after 2.5 release (end of 2006 for OEM:s, beginning of 2007 for customers), long before 2.6 That said, I don't have any strong preferences either way. (..but I do have a x64 Vista machine running ATM) Good to know, but unfortunately,

Re: [Python-Dev] inheriting basic types more efficiently

2006-04-27 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Dennis Heuer wrote: The real misunderstanding lies somewhere else. I thought that the bitarray's instance would have more control over the long type's instance, like with the mutable types. I thought that the long type's superclass would provide methods similar to __setitem__ that would allow

Re: [Python-Dev] A better and more basic array type

2006-04-27 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Dennis Heuer wrote: I hope that somebody agrees and is already starting to implement this new array type. My best wishes are with you. This is off-topic for python-dev. Please post to comp.lang.python instead. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing

Re: [Python-Dev] New-style icons, .desktop file

2006-04-27 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Simon Dahlbacka wrote: Given that, it does not really seem feasible to include them.. Ok, thanks for the investigation. Speaking of icons, do the bundled ico files have to be named py.ico and pyc.ico? No. I think I'll try to drop them altogether, getting the icons from python_icon.exe only.

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping __init__.py requirement for subpackages

2006-04-28 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Thomas Wouters wrote: Indeed! I hadn't realized that, although I might've if I'd been able to find where Modules is put on sys.path. And, likewise, I would do as you suggest (which feels like the right thing) if I could only find out where Modules is put on sys.path :) I don't have time to

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.5 open issues

2006-04-28 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Ronald Oussoren wrote: That's fine by me. I'll be adding them to the universal python 2.4 tree soon and to 2.5 when that's is done. Do have to wait for the contributor agreement, which the folks over at [EMAIL PROTECTED] say is good enough, to do that? If the artist has informally

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.5 open issues

2006-04-28 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Georg Brandl wrote: As I posted here previously, I contacted the owner, and he said that he didn't care about specifying a license. I guess that means that we can pick one ;) Can you please ask whether he would be willing to fill out a contrib form

Re: [Python-Dev] binary trees. Review obmalloc.c

2006-04-28 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Vladimir 'Yu' Stepanov wrote: * To adapt allocation of blocks of memory with other alignment. Now alignment is rigidly set on 8 bytes. As a variant, it is possible to use alignment on 4 bytes. And this value can be set at start of the interpreter through arguments/variable environments/etc.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3102: Keyword-only arguments

2006-04-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Terry Reedy wrote: Now, suppose you wanted to have 'key' be a keyword-only argument. Why? Why not let the user type the additional argument(s) without the parameter name? Are you asking why that feature (keyword-only arguments) is desirable? That's the whole point of the PEP. Or are

Re: [Python-Dev] methods on the bytes object

2006-04-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Josiah Carlson wrote: Specifically in the case of bytes.join(), the current common use-case of literal.join(...) would become something similar to bytes(literal).join(...), unless bytes objects got a syntax... Or maybe I'm missing something? I think what you are missing is that algorithms

Re: [Python-Dev] methods on the bytes object

2006-04-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Josiah Carlson wrote: I think what you are missing is that algorithms that currently operate on byte strings should be reformulated to operate on character strings, not reformulated to operate on bytes objects. By character strings can I assume you mean unicode strings which contain data,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3101: Advanced String Formatting

2006-04-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Aahz wrote: First of all, I recommend that you post this to comp.lang.python. This is the kind of PEP where wide community involvement is essential to success; be prepared for massive revision. Actually, *all* PEPs should be posted to c.l.p at some point; the PEP author is responsible for

Re: [Python-Dev] Tkinter lockups.

2006-04-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Jeff Epler wrote: However, on this system, I couldn't recreate the problem you reported with either the using _tkinter directly instructions, or using this C test program: #include tcl.h #include tk.h int main(void) { Tcl_Interp *trp; unsetenv(DISPLAY); trp =

Re: [Python-Dev] methods on the bytes object

2006-04-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Josiah Carlson wrote: I mean unicode strings, period. I can't imagine what unicode strings which do not contain data could be. Binary data as opposed to text. Input to a array.fromstring(), struct.unpack(), etc. You can't/shouldn't put such data into character strings: you need an encoding

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3102: Keyword-only arguments

2006-04-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Terry Reedy wrote: Are you asking why that feature (keyword-only arguments) is desirable? That's the whole point of the PEP. Or are you asking why the user shouldn't be allowed to pass keyword-only arguments by omitting the keyword? Because they wouldn't be keyword-only arguments then,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3102: Keyword-only arguments

2006-04-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Terry Reedy wrote: Now, suppose you wanted to have 'key' be a keyword-only argument. Why? Why not let the user type the additional argument(s) without the parameter name? Like Martin, you clipped most of the essential context of my question: Talin's second proposal. I clipped it

Re: [Python-Dev] Tkinter lockups.

2006-05-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Thomas Wouters wrote: It seems that, on my platform at least, Tk_Init() doesn't like being called twice even when the first call resulted in an error. That's Tcl and Tk 8.4.12. Tkapp_Init() (which is the Tkinter part that calls Tk_Init()) does its best to guard against calling Tk_Init() twice

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3102: Keyword-only arguments

2006-05-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Edward Loper wrote: Martin v. Löwis wrote: One reason I see is to have keyword-only functions, i.e. with no positional arguments at all: def make_person(*, name, age, phone, location): pass But is it necessary to syntactically *enforce* that the arguments be used as keywords

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3102: Keyword-only arguments

2006-05-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Terry Reedy wrote: This is not a reason for subproposal two, but a special case, as you yourself note below, and hence does say why you want to have such. def make_person(*, name, age, phone, location): pass You weren't asking for a reason, you were asking for an example: this is one.

Re: [Python-Dev] introducing the experimental pyref wiki

2006-05-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: Agreed. Is it too late to also attempt to bring Doc/ref/*.tex completely up to date and remove confusing language from it? Ideally that's the authoritative Language Reference -- admittedly it's been horribly out of date but needn't stay so forever. It's never too late

Re: [Python-Dev] more pyref: continue in finally statements

2006-05-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: Strange. I thought this was supposed to be fixed? (But I can confirm that it isn't.) Perhaps you were confusing it with this HISTORY entry? - A 'continue' statement can now appear in a try block within the body of a loop. It is still not possible to use continue in a

Re: [Python-Dev] more pyref: continue in finally statements

2006-05-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Fredrik Lundh wrote: the language reference says: continue may only occur syntactically nested in a for or while loop, but not nested in a function or class definition or finally statement within that loop. /.../ It may occur within an except or else clause. The

Re: [Python-Dev] methods on the bytes object

2006-05-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Josiah Carlson wrote: Certainly that is the case. But how would you propose embedded bytes data be represented? (I talk more extensively about this particular issue later). Can't answer: I don't know what embedded bytes data are. Ok. I think I would use base64, of possibly compressed

Re: [Python-Dev] more pyref: a better term for string conversion

2006-05-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Fredrik Lundh wrote: for some reason, the language reference uses the term string con- version for the backtick form of repr: http://docs.python.org/ref/string-conversions.html any suggestions for a better term ? should backticks be deprecated, and documented in terms of repr (rather

Re: [Python-Dev] Python for Windows CE

2006-05-03 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Luke Dunstan wrote: 1. Is there any reason in principle why patches for Windows CE support would be rejected? No, not in principle. Of course, - the patch shouldn't break anything - you should state an explicit commitment to support the port for some years (or else it might get removed at

Re: [Python-Dev] Python long command line options

2006-05-04 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Fredrik Lundh wrote: I'm +1 on adding --help and --version, +1 on adding -? and /? for windows only, -0=slightly sceptical if adding a generic long option machinery is worth it, and -1 on a guessing machinery. I also agree with all these judgments. Regards, Martin

Re: [Python-Dev] Python sprint mechanics

2006-05-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Paul Moore wrote: Is it possible to create a branch in the main Python svn, and grant commit privs to that branch only, for sprint participants? I seem to recall something like mod_authzsvn being involved, but I don't know much more... We couldn't technically enforce it - but I'm sure sprint

Re: [Python-Dev] Python sprint mechanics

2006-05-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Benji York wrote: I'm not familiar with the mechanics, recent versions of Subversion allow per-directory security. We do this to give some customers read access to parts of the repo, and read-write to others. It shouldn't be difficult (given a recent enough Subversion) to set up a sprint

Re: [Python-Dev] binary trees. Review obmalloc.c

2006-05-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Vladimir 'Yu' Stepanov wrote: Yes. I understood it when resulted a set example. However, as I just said, people usually don't remove items from just-sorted lists, they tend to iterate over them via 'for i in list:' . Such problem arises at creation of the list of timers. For a list of

Re: [Python-Dev] Python sprint mechanics

2006-05-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Greg Ewing wrote: Tim Peters wrote: Instead it would make best sense for each sprint project to work in its own branch, something SVN makes very easy, but only for those who _can_ commit. There's no way of restricting commit privileges to a particular branch? In the current setup, not

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