On 8 August 2015 at 04:53, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
I do however think it would make ensurepip itself better, so I’m not dead
set against it, mostly just worried about ramifications.
I'd advise against letting concerns about Linux distro politics hold
you back from making
On August 16, 2015 at 10:41:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano (st...@pearwood.info) wrote:
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 02:17:09PM +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
Sorry I'm late to this, but I would very much like to see wheel
installed with ensurepip on at least Windows.
I seem to be missing something
On August 16, 2015 at 11:26:08 AM, Steven D'Aprano (st...@pearwood.info) wrote:
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 10:52:00AM -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
So what is the benefit of including wheel with ensurepip?
pip has an optional dependency on wheel, if you install that optional
dependency
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 10:52:00AM -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
So what is the benefit of including wheel with ensurepip?
pip has an optional dependency on wheel, if you install that optional
dependency than you’ll get the implicit wheel cache enabled by default
which can drastically
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 02:17:09PM +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
Sorry I'm late to this, but I would very much like to see wheel
installed with ensurepip on at least Windows.
I seem to be missing something critical to this entire discussion.
As I understand it, ensurepip is *only* intended to
On Aug 7, 2015, at 3:02 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 August 2015 at 08:50, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net wrote:
Certainly the framing of ensurepip as 'this installs pip' is going to
be confusing and misleading if it doesn't install pip the way
get-pip.py (or
On 7 August 2015 at 08:50, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net wrote:
Certainly the framing of ensurepip as 'this installs pip' is going to
be confusing and misleading if it doesn't install pip the way
get-pip.py (or virtualenv) install pip, leading to confusion such as
that.
Given the
On 7 August 2015 at 17:20, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
I’m not sure if —no-build-tools make sense, since I plan on removing
setuptools from ensurepip completely once pip can implicitly install it. PEP
453 explicitly called out the fact that setuptools was installed as an
Le 7 août 2015 00:51, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net a écrit :
So - I was in a talk at PyCon AU about conda[*], and the author
believed they were using the latest pip with all the latest caching
features, but their experience (16 minute installs) wasn't that.
If an expert user is
I'm confident we're
going to want a support prebuilt wheels only installation option
downstream in the Linux distro world -
Interesting-- so move to a Python specific binary distribution option
-- rather than using rm or deb packages?
Doesn't lead to a dependency heck? I.e no way to express
Please don't add extra pain for purity and
make sure that ensurepip installs pip and
not slow pip until you install wheel in the venv.
This is a really good point -- other than purity, what is the downside?
Arguably, the only reason setuptools, pip, and wheel are not in the
standard library are
On Aug 7, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote:
Please don't add extra pain for purity and
make sure that ensurepip installs pip and
not slow pip until you install wheel in the venv.
This is a really good point -- other than purity, what is the
On 8 August 2015 at 02:12, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Aug 7, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote:
Please don't add extra pain for purity and
make sure that ensurepip installs pip and
not slow pip until you install wheel in the venv.
On 6 August 2015 at 15:04, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
On 6 August 2015 at 09:29, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote:
Le 5 août 2015 17:12, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com a écrit :
A hard dependency on wheel wouldn't fit into the same category - when
folks are using a
On 7 August 2015 at 03:28, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Aug 6, 2015, at 5:04 AM, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net wrote:
Yes: but the logic chain from 'its a bad idea' to 'we don't include
wheel but we do include setuptools' is the bit I'm having a hard time
with.
In
On 6 August 2015 at 19:04, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net wrote:
On 6 August 2015 at 15:04, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
When I consider the harm to a production pipeline that using
setuptools can cause (in that it triggers easy_install, and
easy_install has AFAIK none of
On Aug 6, 2015, at 5:04 AM, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net wrote:
Yes: but the logic chain from 'its a bad idea' to 'we don't include
wheel but we do include setuptools' is the bit I'm having a hard time
with.
In my opinion, it’s the severity of how crippled their experience is
On 3 August 2015 at 11:06, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On August 2, 2015 at 8:47:46 PM, Robert Collins (robe...@robertcollins.net)
wrote:
So, pip 7.0 depends on the wheel module for its automatic wheel
building, and installing pip from get-pip.py, or the bundled copy in
On August 5, 2015 at 10:01:50 AM, Nick Coghlan (ncogh...@gmail.com) wrote:
setuptools is in the situation where because it also includes
pkg_resources, it blurs the line between build time and run time
dependency. While it would be nice to split that and have a just
pkg_resources runtime
On 6 August 2015 at 00:10, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
Just a small correction, in general setuptools does blur that line, but
for pip itself setuptools is completely a build time dependency which
isn’t *technically* any different than our dependency on wheel. We work
perfectly fine
On 6 August 2015 at 09:29, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote:
Le 5 août 2015 17:12, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com a écrit :
A hard dependency on wheel wouldn't fit into the same category - when
folks are using a build pipeline to minimise the installation
footprint on production
Le 5 août 2015 17:12, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com a écrit :
A hard dependency on wheel wouldn't fit into the same category - when
folks are using a build pipeline to minimise the installation
footprint on production systems, the wheel package itself has no
business being installed anywhere
So, pip 7.0 depends on the wheel module for its automatic wheel
building, and installing pip from get-pip.py, or the bundled copy in
virtualenvs will automatically install wheel.
But ensurepip doesn't bundle wheel, so we're actually installing a
slightly crippled pip 7.1, which will lead to folk
On August 2, 2015 at 8:47:46 PM, Robert Collins (robe...@robertcollins.net)
wrote:
So, pip 7.0 depends on the wheel module for its automatic wheel
building, and installing pip from get-pip.py, or the bundled copy in
virtualenvs will automatically install wheel.
But ensurepip doesn't
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