Re: [Python-Dev] Python-3000 upgrade path

Thomas Wouters wrote: > developers and people who develop their own software. I would like to hear > from people who have concrete doubts about this upgrade path. I don't mean Disclaimer: I'm not involved in Py3k, and not even tried it once. And don't know the details of the tool to "transform" P

[Python-Dev] Adding socket timeout to urllib2

I studied which modifications I need to make into urllib2 to support a socket timeout. - I'll modify urlopen for it to accept a socket_timeout parameter, default to None - Request will also accept a socket_timeout parameter, default to None. It will keep it in a socket_timeout attribute, so it cou

[Python-Dev] About code comments policy (and Handler order in urllib2)

One question and one answer (this is a balanced post, :p). The question is what to do when we found a question in a code. Reading urllib2 I found: # XXX why does self.handlers need to be sorted? I found the answer, so I deleted that line, and added a comment in that place just to clarify. Sh

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding socket timeout to urllib2

Facundo> So, I think that in the name of clarity, I shall first modify Facundo> ftplib and httplib, add socket_timeout where is necessary, and Facundo> then add support to that in the more general urllib2. I own a patch on SF to do that much: http://python.org/sf/723312 Feel fre

[Python-Dev] PCBuild8

Hi, I tried building with MS Visual Studio 2005 from PCBuild8/pcbuild.sln, and for me it fails miserably. The first major complaint comes when linking pythoncore, where the _init_types symbol can't be found. On the other hand, allowing MSVS to convert PCBuild/pcbuild.sln works okay. Am I missi

Re: [Python-Dev] About code comments policy (and Handler order in urllib2)

Facundo Batista schrieb: > The question is what to do when we found a question in a code. Reading > urllib2 I found: > > # XXX why does self.handlers need to be sorted? > > I found the answer, so I deleted that line, and added a comment in that > place just to clarify. > > Shall I do somethin

Re: [Python-Dev] PCBuild8

David Abrahams schrieb: > I tried building with MS Visual Studio 2005 from PCBuild8/pcbuild.sln, > and for me it fails miserably. The first major complaint comes when > linking pythoncore, where the _init_types symbol can't be found. On > the other hand, allowing MSVS to convert PCBuild/pcbuild.s

[Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

>From : 4. The patch mafia. I like everyone on python-dev that I meet, but somehow it is annoyingly difficult to get a patch into Python. Like threading, and the stdlib, this is a mixed blessing: yo

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

amk> Any ideas for fixing this problem? Not a one. amk> Tangentially related: amk> At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only amk> Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be amk> too much effort, and might make things easier for e

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 5, 2007, at 1:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > amk> Tangentially related: > amk> At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read- > only > amk> Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository > wouldn't be >

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:58:13PM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm not much of a version control wonk. How would these help? Can't the > folks who need such stuff do some sort of anonymous svn checkout? The external developers can commit changes, revert them, etc. to their local repository

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Monday 05 March 2007 6:46 pm, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > >From : > > 4. The patch mafia. I like everyone on python-dev that I meet, > but somehow it is annoyingly difficult to get a patch into > Python. Like thread

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 07:30:20PM +, Phil Thompson wrote: > 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch reviewed, they > should review other patches. The level of knowledge required to put together > a patch is much less than that required to know if a patch is the right one

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

A few meta-points: On 07:30 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. Publically identify the core developers and their areas of expertise and responsibility (ie. which parts of the source tree they "own"). I'd like to stress that this is an important point; although we all know that Guido's the event

Re: [Python-Dev] PCBuild8

on Mon Mar 05 2007, "Martin v. Löwis" writes: > David Abrahams schrieb: >> I tried building with MS Visual Studio 2005 from PCBuild8/pcbuild.sln, >> and for me it fails miserably. The first major complaint comes when >> linking pythoncore, where the _init_types symbol can't be found. On >> the o

Re: [Python-Dev] PCBuild8

Andrew MacKeith schrieb: > Is there a scheduled date for the release of Python-2.5.1 ? There was a scheduled date, but it then interfered with the schedule of the people executing it, so there is none at the moment. I think we will release 2.5.1 in April. > I presume that the PCBuild8 directory s

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Monday 05 March 2007 8:09 pm, Oleg Broytmann wrote: > On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 07:30:20PM +, Phil Thompson wrote: > > 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch reviewed, > > they should review other patches. The level of knowledge required to put > > together a patch is muc

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/5/07, A.M. Kuchling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >From : 4. The patch mafia. I like everyone on python-dev that I meet, but somehow it is annoyingly difficult to get a patch into Python. Like threadi

[Python-Dev] locals(), closures, and IronPython...

def a(): x = 4 y = 2 def b(): print y, locals() print locals() b() a() in CPython prints: {'y': 2, 'x': 4, 'b': } 2 {'y': 2} I'm wondering if it's intentional that these don't print d

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding socket timeout to urllib2

On 3/5/07, Facundo Batista <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I studied which modifications I need to make into urllib2 to support a > socket timeout. > > - I'll modify urlopen for it to accept a socket_timeout parameter, > default to None I'd call it timeout. There can't really be much ambiguity can th

Re: [Python-Dev] locals(), closures, and IronPython...

Jeremy Hylton has been asking questions about this too at the sprint after PyCon. I'm tempted to accept that the exact behavior of locals() is implementation-defined (IOW undefined :-) as long as it includes the locals defined in the current scope; whether it also includes free variables could be d

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

A.M. Kuchling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only > Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be > too much effort, and might make things easier for external people > developing patches. Thomas Wouters apparently has p

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Monday 05 March 2007 9:38 pm, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On 3/5/07, A.M. Kuchling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >From > > > 4. The patch mafia. I like everyone on python-dev that I meet, > > but somehow it is ann

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Neil Schemenauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Using git-svn to track a SVN repository seems to work well. It > would be trivial to setup a cron job on one of the python.org > machines that would create a publicly accessible repository. I guess Andrew was looking for specific instructions. Instal

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

"Phil Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | On Monday 05 March 2007 6:46 pm, A.M. Kuchling wrote: | > FWIW, I have a related perception that we aren't getting new core | > developers. These two problems are probably related: people don't get | > patches processed

Re: [Python-Dev] locals(), closures, and IronPython...

Thanks Guido. It might take some time (and someone may very well beat me to it if they care a lot) but I'll see if we can get the PEP started. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guido van Rossum Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:14 PM To: Dino

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007, Terry Reedy wrote: > > Tracker item review is an obvious bottleneck in Python development. > In particular, reviewing patches appears not to be nearly as > self-motivating as writing them, and other activities. So I think the > PSF should pay one or more people to do so. Pos

Re: [Python-Dev] locals(), closures, and IronPython...

"Dino Viehland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] def a(): x = 4 y = 2 def b(): print y, locals() print locals() b() a() in CPython prints: {'y': 2, 'x': 4,

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 05/03/2007 20.30, Phil Thompson wrote: > 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch reviewed, they > should review other patches. The level of knowledge required to put together > a patch is much less than that required to know if a patch is the right one. +1000. > 2. Publ

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 05/03/2007 19.46, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only > Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be > too much effort, and might make things easier for external people > developing patches. I really believe this is ju

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/5/07, Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 05/03/2007 19.46, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > > > At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only > > Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be > > too much effort, and might make things easier for externa

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/5/07, Brett Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3/5/07, Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 05/03/2007 19.46, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > > > > > At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only > > > Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 11:30:06PM +, Neil Schemenauer wrote: > I guess Andrew was looking for specific instructions. ... I'm happy to let the ball sit in Thomas's court until the Bazaar developers come out with 0.15 and run their conversion on the SVN repository. There's no burning hurry ab

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 08:50:46PM -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > is indicative of a failure of the community. A good deal of the > discussion here in recent months has either been highly speculative, or > only tangentially related to Python's development, which is ostensibly > its topic. W

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 05/03/2007 20.30, Phil Thompson wrote: > > 2. Publically identify the core developers and their areas of expertise and > > responsibility (ie. which parts of the source tree they "own"). > > I think this should be pushed to its extreme consequences f

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/5/07, A.M. Kuchling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] > One problem may be that there *aren't* maintainers for various > subsystems; various people have contributed bugfixes and patches for, > say, urllib, but I have no idea what single person I would go to for a > problem. > > Is it worth cre

[Python-Dev] Access to bits for a PyLongObject

I'm working on PEP 3101, Advanced String Formatting. About the only built-in numeric formatting I have left to do is for converting a PyLongOjbect to binary. I need to know how to access the bits in a PyLong. After reading longobject.c, I can figure it out. But I'm looking for something that

Re: [Python-Dev] Access to bits for a PyLongObject

Eric V. Smith schrieb: > I'm working on PEP 3101, Advanced String Formatting. About the only > built-in numeric formatting I have left to do is for converting a > PyLongOjbect to binary. > > I need to know how to access the bits in a PyLong. I think it would be a major flaw in PEP 3101 if yo

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

A.M. Kuchling schrieb: > FWIW, I have a related perception that we aren't getting new core > developers. These two problems are probably related: people don't get > patches processed and don't become core developers, and we don't have > enough core developers to process patches in a timely way. An

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: > 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch reviewed, they > should review other patches. The level of knowledge required to put together > a patch is much less than that required to know if a patch is the right one. People don't *have* to review patches

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > The patches list really ought to be _this_ list. The fact that it isn't > is indicative of a failure of the community. I disagree that python-dev isn't the patches list. People often discuss patches here (although much discussion is also in the tracker). > One worr

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: > I'm not sure what your point is. My point is that, if you want to encourage > people to become core developers, they have to have a method of graduating > through the ranks - learning (and being taught) as they go. To place a very > high obstacle in their way right at th

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: >>> Any ideas for fixing this problem? >> A better patch-tracker, better procedures for reviewing patches surounding >> this new tracker, one or more proper dvcs's for people to work off of. I'm >> not sure about 'identifying core developers' as we're all volunteers, with >>

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Neil Schemenauer schrieb: > I guess Andrew was looking for specific instructions. Install git > and git-svn. For Debian stable, you can get them from > http://backports.org/debian/pool/main/g/git-core/. > > Initialize the repository: > > git-svn init http://svn.foo.org/project/trunk > > Fe

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Collin Winter schrieb: > It would also be helpful to have some loose guidelines/requirements > for how to become a module maintainer (e.g., "we're looking for the > following traits..."). That is easy to answer: Review the patches of the module, and post a message to python-dev about your findings

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

[Phil Thompson] > I think a lot of people care, but many can't > do anything about because the barrier to entry is too great. Do you mean commit priviledges? ISTM, those tend to be handed out readily to people who assert that they have good use for them. Ask the Georg-bot how readily he was acce

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Scott Dial schrieb: > While I understand that this tit-for-tat mechanism is meant to ensure > participation, I believe in reality it doesn't, as the 400-some > outstanding patches you referenced elswhere indicate. I can personally > attest to having a patch that is over a year old with no "core

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Raymond Hettinger schrieb: > [Phil Thompson] >> I think a lot of people care, but many can't >> do anything about because the barrier to entry is too great. > > Do you mean commit priviledges? ISTM, those tend to be > handed out readily to people who assert that they have good use for them. > As

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Giovanni Bajo writes: > On 05/03/2007 20.30, Phil Thompson wrote: >> 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch >> reviewed, they should review other patches. The level of knowledge >> required to put together a patch is much less than that required >> to know if a patch is

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Giovanni Bajo writes: > On 05/03/2007 19.46, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > > > At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only > > Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be > > too much effort, and might make things easier for external people > > developin

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 5 Mar, 2007, at 19:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > amk> Any ideas for fixing this problem? > > Not a one. > > amk> Tangentially related: > amk> At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read- > only > amk> Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository