Guys,
I have taken the commitment to lead these tasks and synchronize the people
that are willing to help on this.
We are working on several tasks and PEPS to make things happen since the
summit.
There's no public roadmap yet on when things will be done (because there's
no 100% certitude yet on
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote:
Phillip J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com writes:
However, there's currently no standard, as far as I know, for what
encoding the PKG-INFO file should use.
Who would define such a standard?
PEP 376 where we can explain
Alexandre Vassalotti alexandre at peadrop.com writes:
I just noticed that the new io-c modules were merged in the py3k
branch (I know, I am kind late on the news—blame school work). Anyway,
I am just wondering if it would be a good idea to put the io-c modules
in a sub-directory (like
Thomas Wouters thomas at python.org writes:
Pystone is pretty much a useless benchmark. If it measures anything, it's the
speed of the bytecode dispatcher (and it doesn't measure it particularly well.)
PyBench isn't any better, in my experience.
I don't think pybench is useless. It gives a
Here's one from EVE, where the DB module creates raw data, for our Crowsets,
and then hands it over to another module for consumption (actual creation of
the CRow and CrowDescriptor objects:
BluePy raw(PyCObject_FromVoidPtr(mColumnList, 0));
if (!raw)
return 0;
Hi!
I just stumbled across something in Python 2.6 where I'm not sure if it is by
design or a fault:
x = 'abdc'
x[-3:-3] - ''
x[-3:-2] - 'b'
x[-3:-1] - 'bc'
x[-3: 0] - ''
The one that actually bothers me here is the last one, I would have expected
it to yield 'bcd' instead, because otherwise
2009/4/3 Ulrich Eckhardt eckha...@satorlaser.com:
Hi!
I just stumbled across something in Python 2.6 where I'm not sure if it is by
design or a fault:
x = 'abdc'
x[-3:-3] - ''
x[-3:-2] - 'b'
x[-3:-1] - 'bc'
x[-3: 0] - ''
The one that actually bothers me here is the last one, I would
2009/4/3 Hrvoje Niksic hrvoje.nik...@avl.com:
I've stumbled upon an oddity using sets. It's trivial to test if a value is
in the set, but it appears to be impossible to retrieve a stored value,
other than by iterating over the whole set. Let me describe a concrete use
case.
Imagine a set
I've stumbled upon an oddity using sets. It's trivial to test if a
value is in the set, but it appears to be impossible to retrieve a
stored value, other than by iterating over the whole set. Let me
describe a concrete use case.
Imagine a set of objects identified by some piece of
Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
I've stumbled upon an oddity using sets. It's trivial to test if a
value is in the set, but it appears to be impossible to retrieve a
stored value,
Set elements, by definition, do not have keys or position by which to
grab. When they do, use a dict or list.
other
2009/4/3 Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com:
Guys,
The tasks discussed so far are:
- version definition (http://wiki.python.org/moin/DistutilsVersionFight)
- egg.info standardification (PEP 376)
- metadata enhancement (rewrite PEP 345)
- static metadata definition work (*)
Looks fine ...
On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:22:02 pm Paul Moore wrote:
I'd say that you're abusing __eq__ here. If you can say x in s
and then can't use x as if it were the actual item inserted into
s, then are they really equal?
That's hardly unusual in Python.
alist = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
3.0 in alist
True
On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 02:07:28 am Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Your example is wrong:
Of course it is. The perils of posting at 2am, sorry.
Nevertheless, the principle still holds. There's nothing in Python that
prohibits two objects from being equal, but without them being
interchangeable. As poorly
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:27, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Thomas Wouters thomas at python.org writes:
Pystone is pretty much a useless benchmark. If it measures anything, it's
the
speed of the bytecode dispatcher (and it doesn't measure it particularly
well.)
PyBench
Guido van Rossum wrote:
But anyways this is moot, the bug was only about exec in a class body
*nested inside a function*.
Indeed, I just hate seeing execs and it was an interesting mental exercise
to try and get rid of the above one ;-)
Assuming it breaks no tests, would there be objection to
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Olemis Lang ole...@gmail.com wrote:
BTW ... I see nothing about removing dist_* commands from distutils ...
Q: Am I wrong or it seems they will remain in stdlib ?
This is roughly what
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Thomas Wouters thomas at python.org writes:
Pystone is pretty much a useless benchmark. If it measures anything, it's the
speed of the bytecode dispatcher (and it doesn't measure it particularly
well.)
PyBench isn't
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
I have taken the commitment to lead these tasks and synchronize the people
that are willing to help on this.
Good, I'm one of those people, sadly my only help may be to ask how is
this bit going to be done?.
The tasks discussed so far are:
- version definition
I think it's worse to give the poor guy the run around
by making him run lots of random benchmarks.
the poor guy works for Wingware (a company you may have
heard of) and has contributed to Python at several occasions.
His name is John Ehresmann.
In the end, someone will run a timeit or have a
I just noticed that the new io-c modules were merged in the py3k
branch (I know, I am kind late on the news—blame school work). Anyway,
I am just wondering if it would be a good idea to put the io-c modules
in a sub-directory (like sqlite), instead of scattering them around in
the Modules/
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk wrote:
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
- PyPI mirroring (PEP 381)
I don't see why PyPI isn't just ported to GAE with an S3 data storage bit
and be done with it... Offline mirrors for people behind firewalls already
have solutions out
I've stumbled upon an oddity using sets. It's trivial to test if a
value is in the set, but it appears to be impossible to retrieve a
stored value, other than by iterating over the whole set.
Of course it is. That's why it is called a set: it's an unordered
collection of objects, keyed by
Thomas Wouters thomas at python.org writes:
Really? Have you tried it? I get at least 5% noise between runs without any
changes. I have gotten results that include *negative* run times.
That's an implementation problem, not an issue with the tests themselves.
Perhaps a better timing mechanism
Just want to reply quickly because I'm traveling -- I appreciate the
feedback from Raymond and others. Part of the reason I created an issue
with a proof of concept patch is to get this kind of feedback. I also
agree that this shouldn't go in if it slows things down noticeably.
I will do
Olemis Lang wrote:
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk wrote:
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
- PyPI mirroring (PEP 381)
I don't see why PyPI isn't just ported to GAE with an S3 data storage bit
and be done with it... Offline mirrors for people behind firewalls already
2009/4/3 Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info:
Python does not promise that if x == y, you can use y anywhere you can
use x. Nor should it. Paul's declaration of abuse of __eq__ is
unfounded.
Sorry, I was trying to simplify what I was saying, and simplified it
to the point where it didn't make
On 2009-04-03 18:06, Thomas Wouters wrote:
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:27, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Thomas Wouters thomas at python.org writes:
Pystone is pretty much a useless benchmark. If it measures anything, it's
the
speed of the bytecode dispatcher (and it doesn't
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk wrote:
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
I have taken the commitment to lead these tasks and synchronize the people
that are willing to help on this.
Good, I'm one of those people,
Great !
sadly my only help may be to ask how is this
Chris Withers wrote:
Olemis Lang wrote:
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Chris Withers
ch...@simplistix.co.uk wrote:
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
- PyPI mirroring (PEP 381)
I don't see why PyPI isn't just ported to GAE with an S3 data
storage bit
and be done with it... Offline mirrors for people
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Thomas Wouters thomas at python.org writes:
Really? Have you tried it? I get at least 5% noise between runs without any
changes. I have gotten results that include *negative* run times.
That's an implementation
Collin Winter wrote:
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Thomas Wouters thomas at python.org writes:
Pystone is pretty much a useless benchmark. If it measures anything, it's the
speed of the bytecode dispatcher (and it doesn't measure it
On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 at 17:57, Paul Moore wrote:
In fact, Python seems to be doing something I don't understand:
class Element(object):
...def __init__(self, key, id):
...self.key = key
...self.id = id
...def __eq__(self, other):
...print Calling __eq__ for %s %
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Michael Foord
fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk wrote:
Collin Winter wrote:
As part of the common standard library and test suite that we agreed
on at the PyCon language summit last week, we're going to include a
common benchmark suite that all Python implementations
Collin Winter collinw at gmail.com writes:
- I wish PyBench actually did more isolation.
Call.py:ComplexPythonFunctionCalls is on my mind right now; I wish it
didn't put keyword arguments and **kwargs in the same microbenchmark.
Well, there is a balance to be found between having more
2009/4/3 R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com:
a == b
So, python calls a.__eq__(b)
Now, that function does:
a.key == b
Since b is an object with an __eq__ method, python calls
b.__eq__(a.key).
That's the bit I can't actually find documented anywhere.
Ah, looking again I see that I
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Collin Winter collinw at gmail.com writes:
- I wish PyBench actually did more isolation.
Call.py:ComplexPythonFunctionCalls is on my mind right now; I wish it
didn't put keyword arguments and **kwargs in the same
Perhaps we could add something like a sys.namespace_packages that would
be updated by this mechanism? Then, pkg_resources could check both that
and its internal registry to be both backward and forward compatible.
I could see no problem with that, so I have added this to the PEP.
Thanks for
Chris Withers wrote:
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
I propose the following PEP for inclusion to Python 3.1.
Please comment.
Would this support the following case:
I have a package called mortar, which defines useful stuff:
from mortar import content, ...
I now want to distribute large
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com wrote:
Wow. Can you possibly be more negative?
I think it's worse to give the poor guy the run around
Mind your words please.
by making him run lots of
On 08:15 pm, mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
Note that there is no such thing as a defining namespace package --
namespace package contents are symmetrical peers.
With the PEP, a defining package becomes possible - at most one
portion can define an __init__.py.
For what it's worth, this is a
2009/4/3 Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net:
Alexandre Vassalotti alexandre at peadrop.com writes:
I just noticed that the new io-c modules were merged in the py3k
branch (I know, I am kind late on the news—blame school work). Anyway,
I am just wondering if it would be a good idea to put the
2009/4/3 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de:
I just noticed that the new io-c modules were merged in the py3k
branch (I know, I am kind late on the news—blame school work). Anyway,
I am just wondering if it would be a good idea to put the io-c modules
in a sub-directory (like sqlite), instead
At 10:15 PM 4/3/2009 +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
I should make it clear that this is not the case. I envision it to work
this way: import zope
- searches sys.path, until finding either a directory zope, or a file
zope.{py,pyc,pyd,...}
- if it is a directory, it checks for .pkg files. If it
2009/4/3 Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
But anyways this is moot, the bug was only about exec in a class body
*nested inside a function*.
Indeed, I just hate seeing execs and it was an interesting mental
exercise
to try and get rid of the above one ;-)
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
2009/4/3 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de:
I just noticed that the new io-c modules were merged in the py3k
branch (I know, I am kind late on the news—blame school work). Anyway,
I am just wondering if it would be a
Op dinsdag 24-03-2009 om 20:51 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Martin v.
Löwis:
The Windows story is indeed sad, as none of the Windows packaging
formats provides support for dependencies
That's not entirely true; Cygwin comes with a package management tool
that probably could be used to set up a
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
Well hold on for a minute, I remember we used to have an exec
statement in a class body in the standard library, to define some file
methods in socket.py IIRC.
FYI, collections.namedtuple is also implemented using exec.
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Hrvoje Niksic hrvoje.nik...@avl.com wrote:
But I can't seem to find a way to retrieve the element corresponding to
'foo', at least not without iterating over the entire set. Is this an
oversight or an intentional feature? Or am I just missing an obvious way to
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 13:15, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
Note that there is no such thing as a defining namespace package --
namespace package contents are symmetrical peers.
With the PEP, a defining package becomes possible - at most one
portion can define an __init__.py.
Op maandag 30-03-2009 om 21:54 uur [tijdzone -0500], schreef Guido van
Rossum:
But is his humility enough to cancel out Linus's attitude?
I hope not, or the /.-crowd would become desperate... ;-)
--
Jan Claeys
___
Python-Dev mailing list
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
I'm +.2. This is the layout I would suggest:
Modules/
_io/
_io.c
stringio.c
textio.c
etc
That seems good to me. I opened an issue on the tracker and included a patch.
In order to hunker down and get my thesis proposal done by its due date, I
am disabling mail delivery for myself for all mail.python.org mailing lists
for three months (sans python-committers so I don't accidentally commit when
I shouldn't). If something comes up I should know about you can always
Paul Moore wrote:
2009/4/3 R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com:
a == b
So, python calls a.__eq__(b)
Now, that function does:
a.key == b
Since b is an object with an __eq__ method, python calls
b.__eq__(a.key).
That's the bit I can't actually find documented anywhere.
It doesn't
Alexandre Vassalotti wrote:
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
Well hold on for a minute, I remember we used to have an exec
statement in a class body in the standard library, to define some file
methods in socket.py IIRC.
FYI, collections.namedtuple
That's not entirely true; Cygwin comes with a package management tool
that probably could be used to set up a repository of python packages
for native Windows: http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin-apps/setup.html
Ah, ok. It has the big disadvantage of not being Microsoft-endorsed,
though. In that
Brett Cannon br...@python.org writes:
See you all on July 1. Here is to hoping I don't suffer any
withdrawal.
Ouch. Best of luck to you!
--
\ “Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free |
`\ than Christianity has made them good.” —Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)
[Nick Coghlan]
It doesn't quite work the way RDM desribed it - he missed a step.
Thanks for the clarification. We ought to write-out the process somewhere in a
FAQ.
It may also be instructive to step through the recipe that answers the OP's
original request,
Brett Cannon wrote:
In order to hunker down and get my thesis proposal done by its due
date, I am disabling mail delivery for myself for all mail.python.org
http://mail.python.org mailing lists for three months (sans
python-committers so I don't accidentally commit when I shouldn't). If
On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 07:00:43PM +0100, Michael Foord wrote:
- Collin Winter wrote:
- On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Michael Foord
- fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk wrote:
-
- Collin Winter wrote:
-
- As part of the common standard library and test suite that we agreed
- on at the PyCon
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 19:51, Michael Foord fuzzy...@voidspace.org.ukwrote:
Brett Cannon wrote:
In order to hunker down and get my thesis proposal done by its due date, I
am disabling mail delivery for myself for all mail.python.org
http://mail.python.org mailing lists for three months
I think Benjamin is right. While most of the C source is indeed
exactly one level below the root, there's plenty of code that isn't,
e.g. _ctypes, cjkcodecs, expat, _multiprocessing, zlib. And even
Objects/stringlib.
It's fine with me either way.
Martin
C. Titus Brown wrote:
I vote for a separate mailing list -- 'python-tests'? -- but I don't
know exactly how splintered to make the conversation. It probably
belongs at python.org but if you want me to host it, I can.
If too many things get moved off to SIGs there won't be anything left
for
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
[Nick Coghlan]
It doesn't quite work the way RDM desribed it - he missed a step.
Thanks for the clarification. We ought to write-out the process
somewhere in a FAQ.
The closest we currently have to that is the write-up of the coercion
rules in 2.x:
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