Re: [Python-ideas] Mention more alternative implementations on the PSF website

Eric V. Smith schrieb am 03.02.19 um 23:41: >> On Feb 3, 2019, at 5:31 PM, James Lu wrote: >> https://www.python.org/download/alternatives/ should possibly mention: >> - Mention the possibility of compiling Python to WASM >>- WASM allows Web and Mobile use of Python at possibly native speed.

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

I've lost track if who is advocating what, but: > >>> # Replace all "a" by "b" > >>> v.apply(lambda s: s.replace("a", "b")) >> > I do not get the point of this at all -- we already have map" map(v, lambda s s.replace()"a,", "b") these seem equally expressive an easy to me, and map doesn't

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS] (off-list)

This is getting pretty off toipic, but I want to point out hat as a rule, Python has been critisised more for having too MUCH cnage than too little over the last few years: The py2 -> 3 transition Adding "yet another" formatting option (f-strings) Adding := The async stuff Granted, these are

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS] (off-list)

I agree with everything all of you have said in reply to me. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 3, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote: > >> On 2/3/19 6:01 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> (1) Taking the group discussion off-list should be done rarely, and >> usually only for personal messages that

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

> I know, but if an element-wise operator is useful it would also be useful > for libraries like NumPy that already support the @ operator for matrix > multiplication. > A bit of history: A fair amount of inspiration (or at least experience) for numpy came from MATLAB. MATLAB has essentially

Re: [Python-ideas] Clearer communication

On 2/2/2019 10:59 AM, James Lu wrote: I think we need to ... have some way of knowing that Python committees are python committers. It’s really difficult to know how well your proposal is doing without having this. That has occurred to me also. If two or three core developers respond

Re: [Python-ideas] What factors led Guido to quit?

James, Beginning an email with "I want y’all to think about this very carefully" isn't going to get you the answer you want. It would have been better, if you're curious as to why Guido "quit", the best way would be to go through the archives of python-dev, as he did enumerate the reasons in a

Re: [Python-ideas] What factors led Guido to quit?

On 2/2/2019 11:04 AM, James Lu wrote: What factors led Guido to quit? Guido resigned as 'Enhancement Czar'. He wrote what he want to say publicly as to why in his message to the committers list. Speculating beyond that strikes me as rude. He did not resign as President of the PSF nor as

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

How would you spell these with funcoperators? v.replace("a","b").upper().count("B") vec1.replace("PLACEHOLDER", vec2) concat = vec1 + vec2 On Sun, Feb 3, 2019, 6:40 PM Robert Vanden Eynde > > On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, 21:46 Brendan Barnwell > Yeah, it's called pip install funcoperators : > >>

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS] (off-list)

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 10:02 AM Steven D'Aprano wrote: > (3) In the thread about improving communication, I mentioned that the > easier it is to make comments, the more likely it is for people to make > poor-quality comments. In my experience, posting from a phone is one of > those tools that

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019, 6:36 PM Greg Ewing > But they only cover the special case of a function that takes > elements from just one input vector. What about one that takes > coresponding elements from two or more vectors? > What syntax would you like? Not necessarily new syntax per se, but what

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, 21:46 Brendan Barnwell some_list @ str.lower @ tokenize @ remove_stopwords > → some_list @ to(str.lower) @ to(tokenize) @ to(remove_stopwords) Where from funcoperators import postfix as to ___ Python-ideas mailing list

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

Adrien Ricocotam wrote: >>> # Compute the length of each element of the Vector `v` >>> v.apply(len) >>> v @ len Another example with parameters >>> # Replace all "a" by "b" >>> v.apply(lambda s: s.replace("a", "b")) >>> v @ (lambda s: s.replace("a", "b")) My personal opinion is that the

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

On 2019-02-03 22:58, David Mertz wrote: >>> len(v)  # Number of elements in the Vector `v` Agreed, this should definitely be the behavior.  So how do we get a vector of lengths of each element? >>> # Compute the length of each element of the Vector `v` >>> v.apply(len)

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS]

On Sun, Feb 03, 2019 at 04:07:22PM +, Steve Barnes wrote: > Better yet why not also rename datetime.datetime to datetime.DateTime > and include the line: datetime = DateTime. That was already discussed in this thread. -- Steven ___ Python-ideas

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS]

On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 11:56:47PM -0500, James Lu wrote: > > I accept that datetime.datetime reads a bit funny and is a bit annoying. > > If we had the keys to the time machine and could go back a decade to > > version 3.0, or even further back to 1.5 or whenever the datetime module > > was

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

Ronald Oussoren via Python-ideas wrote: On 3 Feb 2019, at 21:34, David Mertz > wrote: >> Using @ both for matrix multiplication and element-wise application could be made to work, but would be very confusing. The way @ is defined in numpy does actually work for

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS] (off-list)

James, Ned, and everyone else, (I'm intentionally leaving the subject line untouched, but since James' message was sent to the list, I'm replying to the list.) In another thread, you (James) asked for ways to not feel like such a n00b, and you attempted (with mixed success) to start a

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

> > >>> len(v) # Number of elements in the Vector `v` > Agreed, this should definitely be the behavior. So how do we get a vector of lengths of each element? > >>> # Compute the length of each element of the Vector `v` > >>> v.apply(len) > >>> v @ len > Also possible is: v.len() We

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

Adrien Ricocotam wrote: I honestly don’t understand what you don’t like the @ syntax. Another probkem with @ is that it already has an intended meaing, i.e. matrix multiplication. What if you have two vectors of matrices and you want to multiply corresponding ones? -- Greg

Re: [Python-ideas] Mention more alternative implementations on the PSF website

> On Feb 3, 2019, at 5:31 PM, James Lu wrote: > > https://www.python.org/download/alternatives/ should possibly mention: > > - Cython and Nuitka > - Mention the possibility of compiling Python to WASM >- WASM allows Web and Mobile use of Python at possibly native speed. > Though not

Re: [Python-ideas] Mention more alternative implementations on the PSF website

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 9:32 AM James Lu wrote: > > https://www.python.org/download/alternatives/ should possibly mention: > > - Cython and Nuitka > - Mention the possibility of compiling Python to WASM >- WASM allows Web and Mobile use of Python at possibly native speed. > Though not mature

[Python-ideas] Mention more alternative implementations on the PSF website

https://www.python.org/download/alternatives/ should possibly mention: - Cython and Nuitka - Mention the possibility of compiling Python to WASM - WASM allows Web and Mobile use of Python at possibly native speed. Though not mature yet, Pyodide is a working implementation.

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

@David Mertz I think I can't explain well my ideas ^^. I'll try to be really detailed so I'm not sure I'm actually saying what I'm thinking. Let's consider the idea of that Vector class this way : Vectors are list of a defined type (may be immutable ?) and adds sugar syntaxing for vectorized

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

> On 3 Feb 2019, at 21:34, David Mertz wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 3:16 PM Ronald Oussoren > wrote: > The @ operator is meant for matrix multiplication (see PEP 465) and is > already used for that in NumPy. IMHO just that is a good enough reason for > not

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS] (off-list)

James, frankly, it sounds to me like you have found things you don't like about Python, and are frustrated that your ideas here have not been celebrated.  That's far from "decline."  The process for changing Python is fundamentally conservative, which can be frustrating.  I understand that.  I

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 3:16 PM Ronald Oussoren wrote: > The @ operator is meant for matrix multiplication (see PEP 465) and is > already used for that in NumPy. IMHO just that is a good enough reason for > not using @ as an elementwise application operator (ignoring if having an > such an

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

> On 3 Feb 2019, at 09:54, Adrien Ricocotam wrote: > > Nice that you implemented it ! > > I think all the issues you have right now would go of using another > operation. I proposed the @ notation that is clear and different from > everything else, > plus the operator is called "matmul" so

Re: [Python-ideas] What factors led Guido to quit?

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 1:32 PM Ryan Gonzalez wrote: > - I seriously doubt he's going to come back. > The election for Steering Council is underway, and Guido is one of the candidates. He may or may not be one of 5 members of the SC, but that's up to the voters among the core committers. But if

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 1:38 PM Adrien Ricocotam wrote: > I honestly don’t understand what you don’t like the @ syntax. > Can you show any single example that would work with the @ syntax that would not work in almost exactly the same way without it? I have not seen any yet, and none seem

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

I honestly don’t understand what you don’t like the @ syntax. My idea is using functions that takes on argument : an object of the type of the vector. That’s actually how map works. What I understood from your previous message is that there’s ambiguity when using magic functions on whether it’s

Re: [Python-ideas] What factors led Guido to quit?

- This is a mailing list for discussing ideas for Python, not theorizing about personal reasons for leaving a community, nor for writing prompts. - I would argue he left largely just due to people's influence outside this direct community, but also as a sort of "sign" that it was time to go. That

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 3:54 AM Adrien Ricocotam wrote: > I think all the issues you have right now would go of using another > operation. I proposed the @ notation that is clear and different from > everything else, > plus the operator is called "matmul" so it completely makes sense. The the >

Re: [Python-ideas] What factors led Guido to quit?

Guido left for a variety of personal reasons, only some of which I know. Soon we will have a wonderful new Steering Council who will act as a collective BDFL (except each for finite terms, and not dictator since it's a council... but benevolent :-)). On Sun, Feb 3, 2019, 12:33 PM James Lu Are

Re: [Python-ideas] Clearer communication

>> On Feb 2, 2019, at 7:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> >> On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 11:12:02AM -0500, James Lu wrote: >> >> This list IS hard for newcomers. I wish there was one place where I >> could read up on how to not feel like a noob. > > It has become unfashionable to link to this,

Re: [Python-ideas] Clearer communication

Well, the question wasn’t about any specific proposal but improving communication in general. I don’t have a specific straw man. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 2, 2019, at 7:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 10:59:36AM -0500, James Lu wrote: >> >> I think we need to

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS] (off-list)

Python’s decline is in not growing. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 3, 2019, at 11:20 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote: > > James, you say below, "This kind of readability issue, datetime.now, is an > example of what’s contributing to Python’s decline." > > Do you have any evidence of Python's

Re: [Python-ideas] What factors led Guido to quit?

Are you a moderator or committed? I disagree with you. This, like the communication thread, is about improving the ability of the Python community to work together. If you don’t think others can have a respectful discussion about that, that’s the community’s fault, not mine. Again, the goal

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS]

I know I argued for changing this but really I think this is better handled by linters and IDEs by STRONGLY discouraging "import datetime" so people don't get the annoying "'module' object is not callable" or "module 'datetime' has no attribute 'now'" messages. As I said before, this is what

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS]

On 2/2/2019 11:56 PM, James Lu wrote: Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2019, at 3:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Python has been around not quite 30 years now, so we can expect that it will probably last another 30 years. But chances are not good that it will be around in 300 years. A big

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS]

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 7:57 AM James Lu wrote: > > This kind of readability issue, datetime.now, is an example of what’s > contributing to Python’s decline. > Python's decline??? https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html ___ Python-ideas mailing list

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

There is no need for any of you to argue over this small point. Tolerate each other’s language. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 2, 2019, at 3:58 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 05:10:14AM +, MRAB wrote: >>> On 2019-02-02 04:32, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> [snip] >>>

Re: [Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS]

Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 2, 2019, at 3:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 12:06:47AM +0100, Anders Hovmöller wrote: >> >>> - the status quo means "no change", so there is no hassle there; >> >> Not quite true. There is a constant hassle of "do I need to write >>

Re: [Python-ideas] What factors led Guido to quit?

James, please don't post such topics on python-ideas. This is completely off-topic and has strong flamebait potential. You may write on your own blog or Facebook account if you feel so strongly about it. Regards Antoine. On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 11:04:40 -0500 James Lu wrote: > I want y’all to

Re: [Python-ideas] Clearer communication

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 21:20:40 +1100 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > Core developer Brett Cannon has taken up editing other people's comments > on github if he doesn't approve of their tone. > > I'm now proactively editing people's comments on issues so > they are less aggressive, e.g. "You

Re: [Python-ideas] Option of running shell/console commands inside the REPL

On Sun, Feb 03, 2019 at 10:24:12PM +1100, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I'm not sure what multiline editing is being referred to above. I > personally don't know of one in bash. It may be that you have to turn > the feature on -- by default, bash ships with a fair amount of stuff > turned off, and

Re: [Python-ideas] Clearer communication

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 23:38, James Lu wrote: > > It’s very demotivating to hear just negative feedback on this list. > > Was starting this thread useful for y’all? In the interests of clear communication, no it wasn't. In the interests of trying not to be *too* demotivating, the reason is that

Re: [Python-ideas] Option of running shell/console commands inside the REPL

On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 07:37:56PM -0500, Terry Reedy wrote: [...] > >>>* Syntax highlighting; > > To do this correctly requires a separate programmable repl that sees > each character as it is entered. To me, this is as useful in the repl > as in an editor. That's an ambiguous sentence. It

Re: [Python-ideas] Vectorization [was Re: Add list.join() please]

Nice that you implemented it ! I think all the issues you have right now would go of using another operation. I proposed the @ notation that is clear and different from everything else, plus the operator is called "matmul" so it completely makes sense. The the examples would be : >>> l = "Jan

Re: [Python-ideas] Clearer communication

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 7:07 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 10:57:40AM -0500, James Lu wrote: > > It’s very demotivating to hear just negative feedback on this list. > > > > Was starting this thread useful for y’all? > > Do you want an honest answer, or positive feedback?

Re: [Python-ideas] Clearer communication

On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 10:57:40AM -0500, James Lu wrote: > It’s very demotivating to hear just negative feedback on this list. > > Was starting this thread useful for y’all? Do you want an honest answer, or positive feedback? ("It was great!") Personally, no, it wasn't useful for me. It was a