Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 08/04/2013 23:51, Walter Hurry wrote: On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 08:00:06 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote: On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry walterhu...@lavabit.com wrote: The fact of Python enforcing it (or all tabs; a poor

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever rather than to spend hours here arguing? Where's the fun in that? :) What, you don't think sed is fun? -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Tim Chase
On 2013-04-09 13:39, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever rather than to spend hours here arguing? Where's the fun in that? :) What, you don't think sed is fun? --

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com wrote: | sed -e '/What.*n.t/{s//Sure I/;s/?/!/};/^-- /{r .signature' -e'q}' A very apt response. Oh wait, I already have sed on this system, don't need to fire up apt. ChrisA --

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 09/04/2013 14:39, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever rather than to spend hours here arguing? Where's the fun in that? :) What, you don't think sed is fun? Having

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Walter Hurry
On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:51:26 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 09/04/2013 14:39, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever rather than to spend hours here arguing? Where's the fun

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On 09/04/2013 14:39, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever rather than to spend hours here arguing? Where's the fun

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 09/04/2013 22:09, Walter Hurry wrote: On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:51:26 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: Having never really used a *nix box in anger how would I know? A substantial portion of my career was spent on a combination of VMS, C with embedded SQL and Ingres. Please don't ask as I don't

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 23:09:19 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 09/04/2013 22:09, Walter Hurry wrote: On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:51:26 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: Having never really used a *nix box in anger how would I know? A substantial portion of my career was spent on a combination of VMS, C

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: Walter is pointing out that as a Windows user... Walter is also assuming that Mark is a Windows user, which was never actually stated :) ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 10/04/2013 00:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 23:09:19 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 09/04/2013 22:09, Walter Hurry wrote: On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:51:26 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: Having never really used a *nix box in anger how would I know? A substantial portion of my

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 10/04/2013 00:28, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: Walter is pointing out that as a Windows user... Walter is also assuming that Mark is a Windows user, which was never actually stated :) ChrisA Another

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Walter Hurry
On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:28:26 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: Walter is pointing out that as a Windows user... Walter is also assuming that Mark is a Windows user, which was never actually stated :)

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Walter Hurry walterhu...@lavabit.com wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:28:26 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: Walter is pointing out that as a Windows user... Walter is also

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:31:44 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Walter Hurry walterhu...@lavabit.com wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:28:26 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-09 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:31:44 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Walter Hurry walterhu...@lavabit.com wrote: From Mark's reply to me: User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread Nobody
On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter? Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page, using a mechanical stop. This long predates the rule that tab stops are every 8 characters. And your point is?

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-08, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter? Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page, using a mechanical stop. This long predates the rule that tab

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry walterhu...@lavabit.com wrote: Personally I have always used 4 spaces. I use it in SQL, shell scripts and Python. It makes code simple to read, and unambiguous. Same here -- mostly because that's what the emacs Python-mode does by default, and it seems to be

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread Walter Hurry
On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 19:48:58 +, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-08, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter? Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page, using a

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote: On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry walterhu...@lavabit.com wrote: The fact of Python enforcing it (or all tabs; a poor second choice) is *a good thing*, easy and natural IMHO. No need for end if or end loop or fi. One

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread Walter Hurry
On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 08:00:06 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote: On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry walterhu...@lavabit.com wrote: The fact of Python enforcing it (or all tabs; a poor second choice) is *a good thing*, easy and

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Walter Hurry walterhu...@lavabit.com wrote: On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 08:00:06 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote: On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry walterhu...@lavabit.com wrote: The fact of Python

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 19:43:51 +0100, Nobody wrote: On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter? Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page, using a mechanical stop. This long predates the rule that tab

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread rusi
On Apr 9, 7:51 am, Steven D'Aprano steve +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 19:43:51 +0100, Nobody wrote: On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter? Tab stops were set manually, to a physical

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread rusi
On Apr 9, 9:06 am, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: Dunno what you mean by 'out-of-band' If I set tabstops for a para to say 4-13-25-36 in a wordprocessor, save the file and look inside, I will find the tuple (4,13,25,36) in some encoded form. To make this conform to current practices, I

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-08 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 21:06:42 -0700, rusi wrote: On Apr 9, 7:51 am, Steven D'Aprano steve +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 19:43:51 +0100, Nobody wrote: On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter?

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-07 Thread Timothy Madden
On 06.04.2013 23:17, Larry Hudson wrote: [...] What you want and what you think are irrelevant. The Python language (whatever version) is already defined. If you want to use it, you have to accept it and adapt to what it is. Live with it and move on. Complaining about it is a complete waste

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-07 Thread Timothy Madden
On 07.04.2013 06:00, Dylan Evans wrote: Then you see my point, unless you are being told what to use by a boss then there are plenty of other languages you can choose from. Python is rigid about it's format, that's just what it is and a lot of people like it but if it's not your thing then some

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-07 Thread Ethan Furman
On 04/07/2013 04:44 AM, Timothy Madden wrote: I am ok with the people that like python the way it is. Really? 'Cause I totally missed that from the subject line... -- ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-07 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 05/04/2013 22:41, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: snipped as loads of comments already made. Timothy Madden The BDFL's view from many moons ago www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/PythonRegrets.ppt slide 3. -- If you're using GoogleCrap™ please read this

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-07 Thread Roy Smith
In article mailman.247.1365358341.3114.python-l...@python.org, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: On 04/07/2013 04:44 AM, Timothy Madden wrote: I am ok with the people that like python the way it is. Really? 'Cause I totally missed that from the subject line... -- ~Ethan~ Take

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-07 Thread Roland Koebler
Hi, Well all previous (python 2) code is meant to work for a tab size of 8. yes, but even in Python 2, mixing spaces and tabs is considered bad style and should be avoided. And code-checkers like pylint (which I can recommend to everyone) create a warning. You may call this categorically

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Michael Torrie
On 04/05/2013 11:36 PM, Timothy Madden wrote: I guess a discussion like this thread is the price to be paid for relying solely on white space to delimit code blocks, like the python syntax does. I've always been taught that in Python using tabs, particularly in the way that you use them

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Michael Torrie
On 04/05/2013 11:53 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: The new rules may look flexible at first sight, but the net effect they have is they push me to use non-default tab size (which is not good), What makes that not good? There is no law anywhere that says tabs are 8 characters. That's just an

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 23:59:18 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote: On 04/05/2013 11:53 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: The new rules may look flexible at first sight, but the net effect they have is they push me to use non-default tab size (which is not good), What makes that not good? There is no law

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Michael Torrie
On 04/05/2013 11:28 PM, Benjamin Kaplan wrote: http://www.xkcd.com/1172/ How did I ever miss this before? That is truly awesome. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Ethan Furman
On 04/05/2013 10:36 PM, Timothy Madden wrote: 8-character tab stops should be the default. Debating that is I believe another topic, and compatibility with python2 should be enough to make that debate unnecessary. Python 3 broke a lot of things. Pull on your big-boy underwear and deal with

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 08:36:23 +0300, Timothy Madden wrote: 8-character tab stops should be the default. Debating that is I believe another topic, and compatibility with python2 should be enough to make that debate unnecessary. Compatibility with Python 2 is not a requirement. Python 3 exists

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Timothy Madden
On 06.04.2013 08:53, Ian Kelly wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Timothy Madden terminato...@gmail.com wrote: [...] So in other words, everybody must be forced to use 8-character tabs because you want to be able to mix tabs and spaces. People say I can use tabs all the way, just set

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Timothy Madden
On 06.04.2013 08:58, Michael Torrie wrote: [...] As for your problems, perhaps instead of coming on the list with a poorly-thought-out subject line, and desire to simply argue, perhaps you could run your code through a reformatter [...] Hey, I was feeling frustrated ... ! It is how people feel

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Joshua Landau
On 6 April 2013 07:56, Timothy Madden terminato...@gmail.com wrote: On 06.04.2013 08:53, Ian Kelly wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Timothy Madden terminato...@gmail.com wrote: [...] So in other words, everybody must be forced to use 8-character tabs because you want to be able to

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Günther Dietrich
terminato...@gmail.com wrote: [...] The def line has four spaces. The for line then has a hard tab. This is ambiguous. If the hard tab is assumed to have a width of four spaces, then they are at the same indentation level. If it is assumed to have a width of eight spaces, then they are

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Nobody
On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 21:53:40 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: 8 characters is common, but no more correct than any other, This is pure revisionism. 8-column tabs may never have been a significant /de jure/ standard (although they have been that in many specific domains), but they have been a significant

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning to a tab character has come in two flavours: 1. Tab stops are every 8 columns; this cannot be changed. 2. Tab stops are configurable, defaulting to every 8 columns.

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Timothy Madden
On 06.04.2013 13:17, Joshua Landau wrote: [...] Yours frustratedly, Joshua Landau But seriously, please at least look like you've read other people's posts. It doesn't matter what

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Timothy Madden
On 06.04.2013 17:20, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning to a tab character has come in two flavours: 1. Tab stops are every 8 columns; this cannot be changed. 2. Tab stops are

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Roy Smith
In article mailman.200.1365258042.3114.python-l...@python.org, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning to a tab character has come in two flavours: 1. Tab stops

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Neil Cerutti
On 2013-04-06, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: (*) There was a fad about 10 or 15 years ago to print code samples in books in proportional fonts. Prentice-Hall seemed to be particularly guilty of this. Fortunately, common sense prevailed and everybody has gone back to monotype. Bjarne

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-05, terminato...@gmail.com terminato...@gmail.com wrote: [Mad that in 3.3 you can no longer use ambiguous mixtures of spaces and tabs within a single indent level.] My boss would refer to this as a failure to be bug-compatible with the previous version. Whether or not to maintain

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-06, Timothy Madden terminato...@gmail.com wrote: When the default tab size is 8, than tab size does matter. There is no default size. The size of a tab isn't even constant across a line -- they're individually adjustable. The tabs default to wherever they were left by the last

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread rusi
On Apr 6, 8:01 pm, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: What makes sense for a word processor and what makes sense for a programming language are two very different things. Word processors are almost always working with blocks of running text, set in proportional fonts, often with multiple font

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-06, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: On 04/05/2013 10:36 PM, Timothy Madden wrote: 8-character tab stops should be the default. Debating that is I believe another topic, and compatibility with python2 should be enough to make that debate unnecessary. Python 3 broke a lot

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-06, Neil Cerutti ne...@norwich.edu wrote: On 2013-04-06, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: (*) There was a fad about 10 or 15 years ago to print code samples in books in proportional fonts. Prentice-Hall seemed to be particularly guilty of this. Fortunately, common sense prevailed

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Roy Smith
In article kjpffa$n35$4...@reader1.panix.com, Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote: On 2013-04-06, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: On 04/05/2013 10:36 PM, Timothy Madden wrote: 8-character tab stops should be the default. Debating that is I believe another topic, and

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Roy Smith
In article kjpet5$n35$2...@reader1.panix.com, Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote: On 2013-04-05, terminato...@gmail.com terminato...@gmail.com wrote: [Mad that in 3.3 you can no longer use ambiguous mixtures of spaces and tabs within a single indent level.] My boss would refer

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Roy Smith
In article asasgofj03...@mid.individual.net, Neil Cerutti ne...@norwich.edu wrote: Bjarne Stroustrup likes it This is supposed to impress me? Yeah, most of the books I recall that used this were C++ books. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread rusi
On Apr 6, 8:41 pm, Grant Edwards inva...@invalid.invalid wrote: On 2013-04-06, Neil Cerutti ne...@norwich.edu wrote: On 2013-04-06, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: (*) There was a fad about 10 or 15 years ago to print code samples in books in proportional fonts.  Prentice-Hall seemed to

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Neil Cerutti
On 2013-04-06, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: In article asasgofj03...@mid.individual.net, Neil Cerutti ne...@norwich.edu wrote: Bjarne Stroustrup likes it This is supposed to impress me? Hehe. No! But he's got enough clout to give the notion some traction. Yeah, most of the books I

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Larry Hudson
On 04/05/2013 10:36 PM, Timothy Madden wrote: [snip...] 8-character tab stops should be the default. Debating that is I believe another topic, and compatibility with python2 should be enough to make that debate unnecessary. As everyone keeps telling you -- there is NO default tab size.

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:01 AM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: In article mailman.200.1365258042.3114.python-l...@python.org, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:20:32 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning to a tab character has come in two flavours: 1. Tab stops are every 8 columns; this cannot be changed. 2.

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 11:01:04 -0400, Roy Smith wrote: In article mailman.200.1365258042.3114.python-l...@python.org, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning to a tab

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Roy Smith
In article 5160cc44$0$29995$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:20:32 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: Historically, software and hardware which

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Jason Friedman
Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter? I used one. And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-Out. And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correction_tape. My wife typed her dissertation on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hardwarewordprocessor.png. --

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-06 Thread Dylan Evans
Then you see my point, unless you are being told what to use by a boss then there are plenty of other languages you can choose from. Python is rigid about it's format, that's just what it is and a lot of people like it but if it's not your thing then some other language will probably suit you

I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread terminatorul
Hello I just tried python 3.3 with some simple script meant for unit test. How can python authors be so arrogant to impose their tabs and spaces options on me ? It should be my choice if I want to use tabs or not ! I know people have all goten into this frenzy of using either tabs, either

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 8:41 AM, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: Hello I just tried python 3.3 with some simple script meant for unit test. How can python authors be so arrogant to impose their tabs and spaces options on me ? It should be my choice if I want to use tabs or not ! It is. As

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread John Gordon
In 64d4fb7c-6a75-4b5f-b5c8-06a4b2b5d...@googlegroups.com terminato...@gmail.com writes: How can python authors be so arrogant to impose their tabs and spaces options on me ? It should be my choice if I want to use tabs or not ! You are free to use tabs, but you must be consistent. You can't

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread terminatorul
On Saturday, April 6, 2013 12:55:29 AM UTC+3, John Gordon wrote: In 64d4fb7c-6a75-4b5f-b5c8-06a4b2b5d...@googlegroups.com terminato...@gmail.com writes: How can python authors be so arrogant to impose their tabs and spaces options on me ? It should be my choice if I want to use tabs or

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Andrew Berg
On 2013.04.05 17:04, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: Line 5 is the only line in the file that starts at col 9 (after a tab). Being the only line in the file with that indent level, how can it be inconsistent ? The first indent level is done with spaces on the second line (for def) and then with a

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Ian Kelly
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:04 PM, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: They say so, but python does not work that way. This is a simple script: from unittest import TestCase class SvnExternalCmdTests(TestCase) : def test_parse_svn_external(self) : for sample_external in

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Isaac To
You underestimated the arrogance of Python. Python 3 tab doesn't map to 4 spaces. It doesn't map to any number of spaces. Tabs and spaces are completely unrelated. If you have a function having the first indentation level with 4 (or any number of) spaces, the next line starting not with 4

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Ian Kelly
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: Python 2 resolved this ambiguity by assuming that a hard tab was simply equivalent to four or eight spaces (I don't remember which). In fact, neither is correct. Per the docs: ...tabs are replaced (from left to right)

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread terminatorul
On Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:42:15 AM UTC+3, Ian wrote: [...] The def line has four spaces. The for line then has a hard tab. This is ambiguous. If the hard tab is assumed to have a width of four spaces, then they are at the same indentation level. If it is assumed to have a width of eight

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:42:15 AM UTC+3, Ian wrote: [...] The def line has four spaces. The for line then has a hard tab. This is ambiguous. If the hard tab is assumed to have a width of four spaces, then they are at the

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Andrew Berg
On 2013.04.05 19:22, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: And now python forces me out of using any tab characters at all. I believe I should still have a choice, python should at lest give an option to set tab size, if the default of 8 is ambiguous now. Python (at least Python 3) has no concept of

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:22:19 -0700, terminatorul wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:42:15 AM UTC+3, Ian wrote: [...] The def line has four spaces. The for line then has a hard tab. This is ambiguous. If the hard tab is assumed to have a width of four spaces, then they are at the same

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Ian Kelly
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 6:22 PM, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: The correct tab stop positions have always been at 8 character columns apart. The ambiguity was introduced by editors that do not follow the default value set in hardware like printers or used by consoles and terminal emulators.

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Dylan Evans
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:41 AM, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: Hello I just tried python 3.3 with some simple script meant for unit test. How can python authors be so arrogant to impose their tabs and spaces options on me ? It should be my choice if I want to use tabs or not ! Don't like

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Timothy Madden
On 06.04.2013 03:35, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:42:15 AM UTC+3, Ian wrote: [...] The def line has four spaces. The for line then has a hard tab. This is ambiguous. If the hard tab is assumed to have a

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread terminatorul
On Saturday, April 6, 2013 7:28:55 AM UTC+3, Dylan Evans wrote: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:41 AM, termin...@gmail.com wrote: Hello I just tried python 3.3 with some simple script meant for unit test. How can python authors be so arrogant to impose their tabs and spaces options on me ?

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Benjamin Kaplan
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Timothy Madden terminato...@gmail.com wrote: On 06.04.2013 03:35, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:42:15 AM UTC+3, Ian wrote: [...] The def line has four spaces. The for

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Timothy Madden
On 06.04.2013 06:53, Ian Kelly wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 6:22 PM, terminato...@gmail.com wrote: The correct tab stop positions have always been at 8 character columns apart. The ambiguity was introduced by editors that do not follow the default value set in hardware like printers or used

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Timothy Madden terminato...@gmail.com wrote: I guess a discussion like this thread is the price to be paid for relying solely on white space to delimit code blocks, like the python syntax does. Absolutely. Bring on Python 5000, where all such stupidities are

Re: I hate you all

2013-04-05 Thread Ian Kelly
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Timothy Madden terminato...@gmail.com wrote: Changing the tab size from this default is what makes the code incompatible, not the tabs themselves. So the solution is simple: do not change tab size from the default. So in other words, everybody must be forced to