On 5/5/21 9:31 PM, Paul Bryan wrote:
Given the ease of spoofing sender addresses, and its propensity for use
in anonymous spamming and trolling (thanks python-list-owner for
staying on top of that!), I propose to disconnect comp.lang.python from
the python-list mailing list. Both would then
On 5/9/21 11:26 AM, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote:
> Out of curiosity, how do people without a Code of Conduct
> manage and prevent abuse in between people? I was about
> to organise something last year but did not find a better solution
> than a code of conduct to ensure smoothness. Well the
Greetings,
Out of curiosity, how do people without a Code of Conduct
manage and prevent abuse in between people? I was about
to organise something last year but did not find a better solution
than a code of conduct to ensure smoothness. Well the idea was a
before-hand signed code of conduct. It
> I disagree. Many people are opposed to CoCs for a variety of reasons
> including the fact that many CoCs are political in nature. Others
> oppose them for legal liability reasons. On his radio show Ask Noah (a
> radio show about Linux), Noah has interviewed several people who oppose
> CoCs
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 1:58 PM dn via Python-list
wrote:
> That said, there is nothing to be gained by upsetting people...
>
I misquoted the relevant section from Chris' answer, i wanted to quote:
*I'm not saying that the previous situation was GOOD, but I'm far fromsure
that the current
On 09/05/2021 20.31, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote:
> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 5:29 AM Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>>
>> Probably the same reason it has never worked. The only thing that's
>> changed is the social acceptability of vilifying those you don't like.
>> Once upon a time, there were those
I meant to quote this part actually:
I'm not saying that the previous situation was GOOD, but I'm far from
sure that the current situation is any better - look at the arguments
regarding branch naming, which completely sidelined all technical
considerations in favour of one single political
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 5:29 AM Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> Probably the same reason it has never worked. The only thing that's
> changed is the social acceptability of vilifying those you don't like.
> Once upon a time, there were those in the community who had all the
> power, and those on the
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:10 AM Michael Torrie wrote:
>
> On 5/8/21 6:23 PM, Jason C. McDonald wrote:
> > Usually, I find when people dump on CoCs, they're just angry at
> > accountability. I haven't known anyone yet who was a productive
> > member of Python and opposed to the CoC, at least in
On 5/8/21 6:23 PM, Jason C. McDonald wrote:
> Usually, I find when people dump on CoCs, they're just angry at
> accountability. I haven't known anyone yet who was a productive
> member of Python and opposed to the CoC, at least in principle
> and aim.
I disagree. Many people are opposed to CoCs
On 5/8/21 3:28 PM, Mirko via Python-list wrote:
>
> I apologize for this OT post, especially because it's in reply to an
> at least partly troll post, but I just can't resist. Sorry.
>
> P.S.: *NOT* among the core symptoms of (the high-functioning levels)
> of ASS is the inability to learn. Mind
Very well said! It's quite easy to use one's disadvantages as an excuse
for anti-social behavior. The Code of Conduct certainly isn't perfect,
but it has proven to be one of the most effective tools in keeping a
community healthy.
Usually, I find when people dump on CoCs, they're just angry at
I apologize for this OT post, especially because it's in reply to an
at least partly troll post, but I just can't resist. Sorry.
Am 08.05.2021 um 14:09 schrieb Talkie Toaster:
> On 06/05/2021 18:56, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Quite frankly I don't care how this discussion goes as the Python
>>
On 06/05/2021 18:56, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 1:31:28 AM UTC+1, Paul Bryan wrote:
Given the ease of spoofing sender addresses, and its propensity for use
in anonymous spamming and trolling (thanks python-list-owner for
staying on top of that!), I propose to disconnect
Paul Bryan writes:
> Given the ease of spoofing sender addresses, and its propensity for use
> in anonymous spamming and trolling (thanks python-list-owner for
> staying on top of that!), I propose to disconnect comp.lang.python from
> the python-list mailing list. Both would then operate
Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Chris Green wrote:
> > Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2021-05-06, Chris Green wrote:
> >> > Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Pointing a newsreader at news.gmane.io allows one to participate in
> >> >> the mailing list just fine without using Usenet.
> >>
My opinion on all this: The volume in this newsgroup is nowhere
near high enough to be worth changing anything.
This thread itself now contains more messages than the recent
neopython trollage that prompted it.
--
Greg
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 5/6/21 11:05 AM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Stestagg wrote:
>> Where's this discussion going?
>>
>> Which of the practically possible options are best for this list <->
>> newsgroup setup?
>
> And it appears even the suggestion that
> Mailman 3 cannot be used while a
On 2021-05-06, Chris Green wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2021-05-06, Chris Green wrote:
>> > Grant Edwards wrote:
>> >
>> >> Pointing a newsreader at news.gmane.io allows one to participate in
>> >> the mailing list just fine without using Usenet.
>> >>
>> > ??? Surely that *is* using
I do not believe my proposal has reached—or will reach—consensus. It
seems there are some who still value the linkage between the two, and
the S/N ratio is indeed low enough it doesn't warrant changing from the
status quo. Thanks everyone for the consideration and discussion.
Paul
On Thu,
On 2021-05-06, Stestagg wrote:
> Where's this discussion going?
>
> Let's not get too caught up on definitions or the sizes of everyone's
> respective .. newsgroups.
>
> Which of the practically possible options are best for this list <->
> newsgroup setup?
As before I'd suggest that changing
Where's this discussion going?
Let's not get too caught up on definitions or the sizes of everyone's
respective .. newsgroups.
Which of the practically possible options are best for this list <->
newsgroup setup?
Thanks
Steve
On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 6:47 PM Jon Ribbens via Python-list <
On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/6/21 9:44 AM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>> Sounds like nearly all moderated lists/forums then.
>
> Then perhaps you have never been on a real Moderated mailing list or
> Forum.
Ah, the "no true scotsforum" argument ;-)
>>> While you could
Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Chris Green wrote:
> > Grant Edwards wrote:
> >
> >> Pointing a newsreader at news.gmane.io allows one to participate in
> >> the mailing list just fine without using Usenet.
> >>
> > ??? Surely that *is* using Usenet, at least you're using NNTP which
> >
On 5/6/21 9:44 AM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/6/21 6:12 AM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>>> I think you're fundamentally missing the point that the newsgroup is
>>> *already gatewayed to the mailing list*. Marking the group moderated
On 2021-05-06, Chris Green wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Pointing a newsreader at news.gmane.io allows one to participate in
>> the mailing list just fine without using Usenet.
>>
> ??? Surely that *is* using Usenet, at least you're using NNTP which
> is the Usenet protocol. What's "not
> > Not that I support shutting down the Usenet/email gateway -- the
> > signal/noise ration seems fine to me.
> >
> On that I quite agree. :-)
I remind people that the existing Usenet<->Mail gateway keeps the
mailing list software on mail.python.org from migrating to Mailman 3.
I'm sure Mark
On 2021-05-06, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> Granted, I did move from pure comp.lang.python to
> gmane.comp.python.general when the spam became too much to keep
> track of. (Now if I could only figure out why the beaglebone group
> stopped accepting replies via gmane -- I keep having to remember
I will also add that it can get confusing when someone replies to a
newsgroup posting that was originally suppressed to the mailing list.
This has happened as recently as today.
On Thu, 2021-05-06 at 14:36 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Thu, May 6, 2021
Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM Avi Gross via Python-list
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Chris,
> >>
> >> Given some notice, what stops anyone from joining the mailing list before
> >> there is a divorce between the forums?
> >
> > Nothing!
On 5/5/21 10:33 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
I, for one, wish more mailing lists did have newsgroup access (I also
wish for the demise of Google Groups, but short of a large explosive in
Mountain View, doubt that will come to pass). Instead everything is being
splintered into smaller
It was high time a proposal like that came up
We have seen from time to time some comp lang
interruptions ~
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 2021-05-06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM Avi Gross via Python-list
> wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Given some notice, what stops anyone from joining the mailing list before
>> there is a divorce between the forums?
>
> Nothing! Nothing at all. That is, if you're talking
On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
> If the idea is just to provide a NNTP accessible version of the mailing
> list, than perhaps rather than a comp.* group, putting it on gmane would
> be a viable option, that avoids some of the Usenet issues.
The list _is_ on gmane and has been since
On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/6/21 9:12 AM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>> Are you saying that the messages that appear occasionally from people
>> such as Ethan Furman claiming to be moderators and alleging that
>> particular people have been banned or suspended are lies? And
On 2021-05-06, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>> Are you saying that the messages that appear occasionally from people
>> such as Ethan Furman claiming to be moderators and alleging that
>> particular people have been banned or suspended are lies? And that the
>> message I received once saying that my
On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/6/21 6:12 AM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>> I think you're fundamentally missing the point that the newsgroup is
>> *already gatewayed to the mailing list*. Marking the group moderated
>> will not result in any more work for the moderators. In
> Are you saying that the messages that appear occasionally from people
> such as Ethan Furman claiming to be moderators and alleging that
> particular people have been banned or suspended are lies? And that the
> message I received once saying that my comp.lang.python post had been
> rejected
On 5/6/21 9:12 AM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>>> Are you unaware that the group is already gatewayed to a moderated
>>> mailing list for which all of that work is already done?
>> What is this moderation of which you speak? I'm one of the Python
>>
On 5/6/21 6:12 AM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/5/21 10:44 PM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>>> On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
As someone with a long usenet background, converting the existing group
to moderated would be
On 2021-05-06, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>> Are you unaware that the group is already gatewayed to a moderated
>> mailing list for which all of that work is already done?
>
> What is this moderation of which you speak? I'm one of the Python
> postmasters (I maintain the SpamBayes setup) and am aware
> Are you unaware that the group is already gatewayed to a moderated
> mailing list for which all of that work is already done?
What is this moderation of which you speak? I'm one of the Python
postmasters (I maintain the SpamBayes setup) and am aware of a
multi-part tool chain (black hole lists,
On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/5/21 10:44 PM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>> On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> As someone with a long usenet background, converting the existing group
>>> to moderated would be practically impossible. It just isn't done. It
>>> would need
Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Avi Gross" writes:
> > Given some notice, what stops anyone from joining the mailing list before
> > there is a divorce between the forums?
>
> Some of us don't want to be on mailing lists, and prefer using news
> client software.
I am in agreement here, if a list/group is
On 5/5/21 10:44 PM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/5/21 9:40 PM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>>> On 2021-05-06, Paul Bryan wrote:
What's involved in moderating c.l.p? Would there be volunteers willing
to do so?
>>> Nothing at all
On 2021-05-06, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/5/21 9:40 PM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>> On 2021-05-06, Paul Bryan wrote:
>>> What's involved in moderating c.l.p? Would there be volunteers willing
>>> to do so?
>> Nothing at all is involved, apart from changing the status of the group.
>>
On 5/5/21 9:40 PM, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Paul Bryan wrote:
>> What's involved in moderating c.l.p? Would there be volunteers willing
>> to do so?
> Nothing at all is involved, apart from changing the status of the group.
> The moderation would be done by the same
On 2021-05-06, Paul Bryan wrote:
> What's involved in moderating c.l.p? Would there be volunteers willing
> to do so?
Nothing at all is involved, apart from changing the status of the group.
The moderation would be done by the same people, in the same way, as the
moderation of the list is done
What's involved in moderating c.l.p? Would there be volunteers willing
to do so?
On Thu, 2021-05-06 at 00:43 +, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2021-05-06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:32 AM Paul Bryan wrote:
> > >
> > > Given the ease of spoofing sender
On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM Avi Gross via Python-list
wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> Given some notice, what stops anyone from joining the mailing list before
> there is a divorce between the forums?
Nothing! Nothing at all. That is, if you're talking about *people*.
People are absolutely welcome to
On 2021-05-06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:32 AM Paul Bryan wrote:
>>
>> Given the ease of spoofing sender addresses, and its propensity for use
>> in anonymous spamming and trolling (thanks python-list-owner for
>> staying on top of that!), I propose to disconnect
comp.lang.python from python-list
On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:32 AM Paul Bryan wrote:
>
> Given the ease of spoofing sender addresses, and its propensity for
> use in anonymous spamming and trolling (thanks python-list-owner for
> staying on top of that!), I propose to disconnect comp.lang.py
On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:32 AM Paul Bryan wrote:
>
> Given the ease of spoofing sender addresses, and its propensity for use
> in anonymous spamming and trolling (thanks python-list-owner for
> staying on top of that!), I propose to disconnect comp.lang.python from
> the python-list mailing
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